Do colleges want nerds who get 99% on their SAT or someone ACTUALLY has a social life

<p>I am just wondering this question:</p>

<p>Do colleges just want fake-all-i-do-is-for-me-to-get-into-college kinda person (meaning just studying and doing EC's for college reasons) or some one who actually got some sort of social life and actually DO care about others?</p>

<p>I think the current system of enrolling students is totally ignoring the possibility of missing out a truly kind and intuitive student. </p>

<p>What is the point of enrolling someone who only care about GRADES, HIS/HER FUTURE JOB, MONEY, FAME, etc..and care about nothing that is of greater importance?</p>

<p>The education on these kind of people will only bring society disaster. These kind of people will only care for themselves. </p>

<p>i.e. Being a doctor just becasue they want to be rich etc.</p>

<p>The whole college-admission process is sadly wrong in that it doesn't tale into account of the things that are SO MUCH more important than grades or EC's alone.</p>

<p>I am, sadly, the kind of person that I just talked about above. I don't want to be like this, but I can't help it. I am ambitious; I want to get into a good college. </p>

<p>But the question is: Is it all worth it? Isn't just more important to just live your life to the fullest and enjoy the teenage years day by day? </p>

<p>I am truly puzzled.</p>

<p>it isn't worth it at all.</p>

<p>anyway, these grades DO NOT reflect how smart a person is or what they are capable of.</p>

<p>look at the SAT for example:</p>

<p>its absolute rubbish, I have to study NEW concepts on a test which SHOULD test my knowledge.</p>

<p>and thats just the academics</p>

<p>you're right.</p>

<p>thirty years down the road, how much will all of this matter? its sickening how many people do community service just to get the hours or the awards</p>

<p>I think the social compassion level is about zero.</p>

<p>it pretty much sucks.</p>

<p>=/</p>

<p>I used to think just like you until the day I realized that even if I care about becoming a good person....the road's bitter....just be a "fake-all-i-do-is-for-me-to-get-into-college" I think it'll pay off in the end...</p>

<p>I can only speak to my own college and my own experience in high school and as a premedical student.</p>

<p>There are exceptions, but I have found that students here are truly incredible. And I don't mean that they have incredible resumes, I mean that they're truly people that I'm proud to be part of.</p>

<p>I have friends who do bioterrorism analysis for the Department of Homeland Security, friends who spend half their time researching chemistry and the other half applying for financial consulting interviews, friends who are active in their mentoring organizations and church groups. I know students who were among the first responders to Hurricane Katina, 16 hours away, and students who have founded companies to help local schools integrate technology into their curriculum.</p>

<p>Yes, most of my friends are brilliant - 75% of them scored above a 1410, I'm told - but the truth of the matter is that these are the young men and women who are going to change the world one day. These are not the sort of passions one fulfills merely for the sake of impressing others - they are the passions that come about from being an active person.</p>

<p>Maybe some of the people you know are just faking it, trying to seem passionate. Maybe some of the people you know are too frustrated with the burden they're expected to carry as teenagers and have a hard time seeing the larger picture. Maybe my school is just very good at screening out the resume-padders from the truly passionate. I don't know.</p>

<p>All I can tell you is that at my high school and at my college, the students who kept themselves busy were the most successful, but they weren't busy for the sake of school. They were busy because they were alive, full of passion and fire and capability.</p>

<p>And yes, those are exactly the kinds of young men and women colleges are seeking.</p>

<p>You're a Dukie...cool, good to know even a top college like that somewhat cares...</p>

<p>I know what you mean, and I totally agree with you that there are people out there who are TRULY compassionate about what they do. </p>

<p>At the teenage stage, however, it is very hard to focus on things that you are actually truly passionate about. I know so many people who are completely mad about going into the ivy leagues. They not only cheat in school in order to get good grades, but even bribe the teacher for god's sake! </p>

<p>Are colleges looking for these kind of people? </p>

<p>Of course, I am being a bit harsh here but there are people out there that are like that. They can do ANYTHING, not caring whether they will harm others in the process, just to get marks or have impressive things on their application. </p>

<p>Even though colleges say that they base their admission on things like personality, work-ethic, extracurriculars etc., what do they really look for at the end? It's all about the grades; the scores. We all know that.</p>

<p>I know truly compassionate people, who do not exactly get stellar scores or anything but totally tired their best and gave their all. Don't you think colleges should enroll these kind of people instead of the unbelievably fake applicants?</p>

<p>To be frank, college admissions is NOT about numbers. I would frantically dispute that. First, my numbers were considerably better than average at every school I applied to - I was admitted to 6 out of 13. If they looked only for grades and scores, I would have gotten into all of them.</p>

<p>I am merely trying to explain why I don't believe that the process is purely statistics-driven. You'll notice, frankly, that I am not accusing them of making the wrong decision. I think some of them made the RIGHT decision to reject me despite my better numbers. Perhaps, if I explain this, it will make what colleges are looking for a little bit clearer.</p>

<hr>

<p>I went to a good - marvelous, in fact - high school. I got good grades and good SAT scores - nearly perfect on all counts. I had one stellar extracurricular, and many assorted ones. I'm not ashamed to label myself a talented student.</p>

<p>But who was I?</p>

<p>I wrote a talented, well-structured, proofread personal statement that recounted a story about an intense debate I'd had about the nature of religion. By all accounts, it was a fine personal statement. There was only one thing it lacked: direction.</p>

<p>I was a very competitive young man. This is not a bad thing, but it is not automatically a good one either. At the time, I used it poorly. Even now, I struggle with that impulse. Rather than a drive to be the best person I could be, I used competition to try to prove myself better than others. Sometimes, I'm embarassed to admit, that involved frustrated rants at people I believed to be less talented or less worthwhile.</p>

<p>Would it have been wise to admit a young man like that to Harvard? The answer, frankly, is no. You don't take a young man whose impulses are inward-centric, whose competition is purely to prove himself superior, and give him what is often called the H-bomb. Harvard probably does do that quite often, because their admissions department is imperfect. I'm not saying they are consistent about making the right choice. I just mean to say that in my case, they did the right thing. It has taken me four years to understand this.</p>

<p>Who was I? I was a talented student who lacked direction. My commitments were not selfish per se, they were simply aimless because they were built around my own sensibilities of what was worthwhile. Harvard, whether they knew it or not, was not the place for me to find a genuine direction in life. Their school expects young people to be well-grounded first. Their school needs young people to be well-grounded first.</p>

<p>It was at Duke that I was able to find that direction. Duke is a warmer place, and its people pay more attention to the genuine growth of young men and women into well-rounded individuals. Here, you have more time on your hands to see who you ought to be and discover the right choices for your life.</p>

<p>Not all Duke students take advantage of this, and I submit that this is because our admissions department, wonderful as it is, is not perfect, either.</p>

<p>All schools look for academic talent, which is why SAT scores and grades matter so much. All schools look for passion, which is why extracurriculars matter so much. But it isn't just extracurriculars or grades or SAT scores that matter: what matters is how you will use them. At a school like Harvard, they are look for students who have already chosen to turn their talents out into the world at large. They are wrong about which students those are sometimes, maybe often. But they are sometimes right, too.</p>

<p>At a school like Duke, they can afford to be more patient with young hotheads. Duke is looking for potential, yes, of course. And they also are looking for students who will, someday, turn their talents loose into the world at large. But here, you don't need to walk in as a completed package. Sometimes, you can be a frustrated, directionless young man who hasn't yet known what it's like to be a part of something bigger than himself. Duke can afford to do this because it has a warmer, more nurturing climate. If you need it badly enough, you can actually feel yourself give a sigh of relief as you get off the plane.</p>

<p>In the rush to be more prestigious - in itself an aimless pursuit - students often masquerade as something that they aren't. And because admissions committees are not perfect human beings, sometimes they are fooled. I knew I was talented; I was hoping to fool an admissions committee into believing that I had a genuine passion and direction in my life. Whether I'm representative or not, the colleges I applied to understood who I was - incomplete, still raw - and made the right decisions.</p>

<p>I'm not saying I was a bad person; I'm saying that my potential was something Duke could work with and Harvard might not have been able to. It was never a question of how academically talented I was: it was a question of what school could really, truly be best for me. I thought it was Harvard. Harvard and Duke both knew better.</p>

<p>Some students out there will be turned down by Harvard because there were, like me, aimless and frustrated, and they will find themselves at institutions devoted to helping young men and women mature. Some students out there will be turned down by Princeton because, frankly, their academic struggles would overwhelm them, and they will find themselves at institutions that can better pace their learning. Some students will successfully fool admissions departments, and some other students will be squeezed out. I don't mean that you shouldn't be frustrated with the imperfections in the process, I mean only to help you understand that it's not a question of qualification but a question of match.</p>

<p>There are truly compassionate, wonderful people out there that Harvard won't have room for, because Harvard believes they can better use their spot on someone else. Sometimes, Harvard will be right. Sometimes, they'll be wrong. They aren't looking for cheaters and fakers, but sometimes the cheaters fool them, too.</p>

<p>The key is to prove, honestly, to colleges that you are the kind of young person who will lead our generation in a quest to better the world around us, and that you can best grow in that direction by going to that college. I convinced Duke of that, and - I hope - it has turned out to be true. Some students try to fill their hours with meaningless extracurriculars to prove that they are busy and important, but that isn't actually what schools are looking for. They are not only looking for nerds who score 99% on the SAT, but nor are they looking for young men and women who have "good social lives". It's not even about "trying your best". All of those things matter, but none of those really capture it. Schools want to see young men and women who care deeply, and whose caring can be harnessed to make our world better.</p>

<p>Prove to them that you're one of those students.</p>

<p>well I'm not sure if that even matters....</p>

<p>Who are these "intuitive people" that you speak of, yet do not help society? I mean even if people don't care about good grades, or bolstering their resume with EC acitivites.....if they don't do it, it still shows that they don't care. </p>

<p>Truthfully, I guess it may be difficult for colleges to distinguish between people who pad their resume, and people who really care about society.....but the people who DONT DO ANYTHING are clearly not what the colleges are looking for. so either way, colleges ARE picking the right people (most of the time)</p>

<p>bluedevilmike:</p>

<p>I have to say, I read every word of what you said, and it really made me think. </p>

<p>It might take me a few weeks, months, to really understand.</p>

<p>maybe I won't understand it at all.</p>

<p>but HOW do you prove that you care?</p>

<p>Part of it is colleges aren't looking for people to just "have fun" at their college, but take their studies seriously. Obviously having fun would be preferable, but just because you have lots of friends doesn't mean you're a great person, especially in high school. On the other hand, I would much rather talk to someone that gets out a lot than someone who just sits home and studies. </p>

<p>Thebrown: How does the SAT make you learn new concepts? If you are really really smart you could just go into that test without studying and get a 2400. It does test your knowledge, as well as your problem solving and reasoning skills, hence the name SAT reasoning test. You don't need to study for the SAT, you just have to practice it.</p>

<p>lol you're the first person I've come in contact with to actually DEFEND the SAT.</p>

<p>True, if you are smart, you will get a 2400.</p>

<p>realisticly, even though there are thousands of people getting 2300+, </p>

<p>I wouldn't consider them "smart" </p>

<p>but thats a very very biased opinion, because personally I have not been sucessful with the SAT.</p>

<p>I'm not going to defend myself though</p>

<p>its just my opinion: the test sucks.</p>

<p>and I believe I can do much better than that.</p>

<p>Kudos on your post, Mike, it was, I believe, very accurate and an excellent self-reflection.
I recently got turned down in a similar manner for an internship here that I had invested an enormous amount of energy into!
Basically, after discussing applicants, the selection committee--whom I and the other candidates had worked with over the past year in a lower position--decided the incumbent (who will be a senior next year) would be the best choice for the job during a transitional phase (new director coming in).</p>

<p>I think that's sometimes what we tend to miss when applying for things--we get so caught up in "being good enough" that we miss the aspect of whether we'll be a good fit!
The following are a couple of excerpts from an email I received back from the program's graduate assistant whom I had asked some questions of:</p>

<p>...But in comparing all of the qualities the intern needs and all of the qualities that the candidates have to offer, we felt that she would be the best fit for the job. Please notice my wording - the best fit! As I personally consider my own upcoming applications and interviews, I must also keep this in mind - I may be passionate about a job, institution, group of people, etc, and also feel that I AM the best fit for the job, but only the people who already work there can determine that - and applicants must trust those who interview them to choose the right fit!
Another lesson I am learning...is that I am interviewing my potential offices for the best fit for me, too! I am still... figuring out who I am and the qualities I have to contribute, so I want to keep learning these things about myself so that I can assess in an interview and make my own decisions - does this make sense? I think that this empowers me as an applicant and helps me to remember that I have value, too!
Should you [reapply] for the [position you previously held]?
Well, I am hesitant to say anything about this. I sense that you are wanting to improve yourself enough to "get the job," but that is not in harmony with the [program's] philosophy. Mike, you are gifted...to accomplish some important purpose, and none of us knows what that is! It just might be that your [talents] would be better suited to another leadership position where [your talents could be more effectively used].</p>

<p>None of what she said is particularly earth-shattering, but I suspect that a site like this tends to attract a lot of people who would do <em>ANYTHING</em> to get into the best schools! Perhaps that is not the best way of doing things. I personally agree with her, as much as I would like to change who I am sometimes, that is really a pretty fruitless goal in my opinion. It seems to me that it would be far more effective to go to a school that will best serve you--not necessarily the one with the most prestige!</p>

<p>to be dead honest, I have a great social life, I've dated 7 really great/nice/beautiful girls in these past four years, I have partied almost every weekend if not every weekend this year, I have great friends, I know how to have fun, and I just love livin life to fullest. So..I don't really think the "or" holds true in "do colleges want 99 percentile sat scores or ppl with social lives". ps..if it matters, I got 1400 + 4.0 gpa (which it shouldn't, because usually getting into colleges isn't really all about scores/gpa)..But furthermore, every club that I have joined, I have truly enjoyed and have had lots of interest in, i.e Debate Team and Key Club, and I do know what you mean when students join clubs just for college, and I am def. against it (defeats the ENTIRE purpose.).</p>

<p>I don't know... I always thought that your social life was really important, but really how can you incorporate that into your application? </p>

<p>"I like to go party a lot and get crunk with my friends, and I really enjoy a nice blunt or two on the weekends. Oh yeah throughout all that I get pretty good grades, so I'm awesome."
-I mean you can't really put in that you love to party and stuff, unless it's pansy parties or something. Social is defined differently to colleges. </p>

<p>Really I can't see a good way to present yourself socially to a college unless you had an interview of some sort. I think when they're looking for someone's personality, yes they look to the essay, but they also look at their extracurriculars, like if someone was King or Queen of their school's Winter Formal or something. I do OKAY in school, but I still think I'm in the lower 25% compared to everyone here, with my GPA of 3.39 and SATs of 1850 and ACT. I couldn't really put in my personality much into my essays or nothing, I just wrote about my passion in life, Kung Fu, which I have been doing for five years already, hoping that it was unique enough that schools would accept me. Pretty much what the college preparing center near my school told me was to stand out, that's it. I volunteer and stuff but I really can't see how you can do anything about that other then put it on your activities chart. But yeah social life's important, but explain me a way you could really demonstrate that to a college that actually cares about that.</p>

<p>P.S. If I repeated anything anyone else said, my bad cuz I didn't read everything said.</p>

<p>I'm not convinced that your ability to get "crunk" does in fact matter to colleges. It may be a destresser for you, but I don't think colleges value that as a use of your time/ability. It isn't sociable kids who got voted homecoming queen that schools look for: it's leadership and potential. Vision. Talent.</p>

<p>Proving that you care will come naturally to a truly passionate person: your words will flow coherently as you explain why you have a given direction in life, and your face will light up as you interview. It's impossible to hide.</p>

<p>Explain your place in this world. To Steve, explain why your kung fu is an important passion. Explain why that means that you should go to college. If you are struggling with that explanation - as I struggled to explain my interest in debate - then try to contemplate what that might mean for your future career. If you honestly think that you can't talk about your volunteering except for listing on a "chart", then you're in trouble - because somebody who really cared wouldn't be able to shut up about it.</p>

<p>And yes, you can have all the passion in the world and it won't matter if schools don't think you're academically fit. Frankly, I think that's appropriate. If your essay shines with enthusiasm but reeks with double negatives and comma splices, you're going to struggle at a serious academic institution. Some schools have time to bring you up to snuff; others have other priorities.</p>

<p>Find a good fit. It isn't about being good enough, it's about being good together.</p>

<p>Yeah you're totally right. I mean of course I didnt' write that I get crunk and party and stuff, and I DEFINITELY didn't include that in my applications (that was just a sarcastic example), but i thought it was hard to demonstrate my sociability, but it doesn't matter for me, cuz I didn't apply to like... Harvard or nothing, i applied to U of Wash.</p>

<p>I mean I wish I applied to Stanford or something. I know I have potential but if I could find a good way to demonstrate taht then maybe they'd accept me purely cuz of the person I am.</p>

<p>For UW app, There was only room for an esssay, a short essay, an activities chart and extra comments. There's only so much you can shove in there. Show me how you included your sociability in there. Actually I think my essay for UW about kung fu did show my sociability. I tried to explain how it affected my life, not just physically, but mentally. I wrote about how animal kungfu represents my life, like strength and agility and stuff fromt he tiger and stuff from the crane, a lot of philosophical stuff and how it applies to my life, how i get out of tough situations and how i look at life, my work ethic, my potential and where it'll lead me. you know? it explained who I was, hrmm i guess I answered my own questions. Anyway i would like to know how you demonstrated your potential and all that stuff.</p>

<p>Part of how you demonstrate potential is by demonstrating talent, of course, as measured by statistics. Part of that is seen in teacher recommendations and the reputation of your high school.</p>

<p>For me - and you should remember that my choices were not optimal - I chose to talk at length about why debate and intellectual conversation interested me. This essay proved that I was capable of thinking deeply, but that in and of itself was not useful.</p>

<p>I failed to prove - because I didn't yet - that I had direction and purpose. Can you explain how your kung-fu makes you not just a better person but a more crucial one? How it fits not just into your life but into society at large? Importantly, why does it mean that you need to go to a college of high caliber?</p>

<p>i don't know, it didn't ask me for why i'd be a good student, it asked to demonstrate my character. and the biggest metaphor for my life includes kungfu and how it's shaped my character and changed me into who i am today. ya know that kinda stuff. I guess I dind't go ALL OUT on my essays and stuff, but still... I just gotta get in. Still waiting too.</p>

<p>xindianx : lol, i would like to know how you can be so perfect! =P</p>

<p>Hmmm, i know what you guys mean. But does going to a 'college of high caliber' really going to matter say, 20-30 years down the road? </p>

<p>Lol, i still think that everyone is unique in his/her own way. Of course, doing certain things make you stand out, but I am just saying that people shouldn't do things just for the sake of going to a good college. They should just be who they really are.</p>

<p>It is wrong for colleges to assume that only UNIQUE, TALENTED, INTELLIGENT people will have a greater potential at completing their studies. </p>

<p>Take, for example, Newton; He was a total social outcast and got extremely bad grades at school. But he was a thinker, a great mathematician/physicist. </p>

<p>If he was living amoung us today, Ivy Leagues will probably not enroll him. Ivy Leagues will probably miss out on a lot of people like him. </p>

<p>I mean, can't the admissions think of any other BETTER way of evaluating someone?</p>