do "extraordinary" EC's actually cancel out bad grades?

<p>I read somewhere that it's possible to be admitted to top Ivies, specifically Harvard, even with a low (3.4-3.6) GPA if the student has done something very unique, like writing a NYT Bestsellers book, or starting a website/blog with maybe a million followers.</p>

<p>I'm not saying that I did this, haha, I am beyond my college years. However, I was wondering how realistic this is and whether it could actually happen because I know that so many "perfect" students are rejected, so I want to know if an academically "lazy" student with natural "talent" or "ingenuity" would be so lucky as to be admitted (EA included).</p>

<p>Thanks!</p>

<p>It’s impossible to say, really. I’ve heard stories of 1800 SATs (which are, in my mind, equivalent to a 3.4 GPA or so) get accepted, based mostly on his essays. So who knows. The whole process is a bit of a crapshoot. Beyond that, GPA is all about context. If a 3.4 puts you in the top 15% of your class, it could be fine. Grade deflation and inflation run rampant in high schools.</p>

<p>I think it’s pretty much a case-by-case basis. However, just from experience, I’d say grades are still extremely important. My first quarter grades were requested a week before admissions decisions, and I’m a consistent stupid with a high GPA. Harvard wants passionate people with diverse interests, but they also need to know if you can handle rigorous coursework.</p>

<p>I don’t think the essays are likely to push that student over the top. HIGHLY unlikely. But I do think some nationwide or huge achievement can push a very good (but not great) GPA student into the admissions pile at a school like that.</p>

<p>Cal Newport wrote a book about this called: How to Be a High School Superstar: A Revolutionary Plan to Get into College by Standing Out (Without Burning Out). The gist of it is that if you can pull off a UNIQUE high level EC, you really have a good chance of getting into a top college. Now, he says to keep your UW GPA at at least a 3.7. I think he has some minimum SAT score suggestion as well, don’t recall what it is, but it is not astonomical. I thought this book was the most interesting I have read on the college application process. Wish I could go back to HS and give it a try. :)</p>

<p>As Harvard and Yale are similar institutions who recruit identical students, I think they are both on the same wave-length. This from the Yale Admissions website: </p>

<p>“Yale is above all an academic institution. This means academic strength is our first consideration in evaluating any candidate. The single most important document in your application is your high school transcript, which tells us a great deal about your academic drive and performance over time. We look for students who have consistently taken a broad range of challenging courses in high school and done well. Your high school teachers can provide extremely helpful information in their evaluations. Not only do they discuss your performance in their particular class or classes, but often they write about such things as your intellectual curiosity, energy, relationships with classmates, and impact on the classroom environment. Obviously it is important to ask for recommendations from teachers who know you well.”</p>

<p>“While there is no hard and fast rule, it is safe to say that performance in school is more important than testing. A very strong performance in a demanding college preparatory program may compensate for modest standardized test scores, but it is unlikely that high standardized test scores will persuade the admissions committee to disregard an undistinguished secondary-school record.”</p>

<p>“The Yale application tries to get at the personal side of the applicant through the use of two essays whose scope is broad enough to accommodate most writers. We encourage you to take the writing of the essays seriously and to write openly and honestly about activities, interests, or experiences that have been meaningful to you. What is most important is that you write in your own voice. If an essay doesn’t sound like the person who writes it, it cannot serve him or her very well as a personal statement. As with every document in the application, we read essays very carefully and try to get a full sense of the human being behind them.”</p>

<p>I don’t think the 3.4-3.6 would ever get in if it reflected “academic laziness”–That GPA is much more forgivable if it’s the result of somebody encountering challenges, whether personal or academic. Personal challenges would include death or other major instability in the family; (mostly resolved) health problems, like being in a car accident; or having to work 20+ hours a week to support the family. Academic challenges would include somebody taking advanced classes in a field that wasn’t their main area of strength, like if a prospective arts major took a lot of math courses through a couple years of post-calculus and got B’s. This only works if the student is very, very good at their main field.</p>

<p>Just personally, while I’m sure it does happen, my high school sends 40-50 kids to Ivies every year, maybe 5 to Harvard. I had much the lowest non-recruited GPA to be accepted to Harvard in 5-6 years, and my UW was 3.78. (I was in the “humanities student is good at chemistry but really not that competent compared to her peers who are going to go major in chemistry at MIT” boat.) I’d guess that most of the students facing “personal” challenges that might excuse lower GPAs wouldn’t have been at my very college-preparatory high school, but it still does tell you something about what a “low” GPA is for Harvard.</p>

<p>And of course, while recruits as a whole are very talented, occasionally one or two with 3.2s will slip in if they’re the best recruit for one of Harvard’s best teams. (Men’s basketball probably would get more flexibility than any other sport because they are actually good.)</p>

<p>Based on the stats from this year’s early action, I’d say that ECs/essays/recommendations/internships/etc. CAN possibly make up for sub-par grades or test scores.</p>

<p>I think Harvard is trying to dispel the notion that all their students MUST have perfect scores and grades; they’re looking for all-around successful people.
Though a 3.4-3.6 still might be a reach, I’d say it’s possible.</p>

<p>I am confident that Sasha Obama would be admitted regardless of her GPA…</p>

<p>Yes, Sasha Obama would be admitted regardless of GPA – not only to Harvard, but to any college in the world. Ditto for someone like Bill Gates’ son, or Emma Watson for that matter. But unless you are ultra rich or famous, you will be treated just like everyone else. That’s a fact of life – whether it’s in college admissions, the line at a bank, or waiting for a table at a restaurant.</p>