Do Geophysics PhDs have many job opportunities outside of oilfield and Houston?

College Majors Science Majors
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<p>My girlfriend just finished applying for her Geophysics graduate degree, some schools MS and some PhD. She worked in petroleum before, but doesn't really mind the industry she's in as long as she gets paid a fair wage. However, it seems that the only city where there is work for a petroleum geophysicist(albeit, extremely highly paid work) is in Houston. I don't really want to work in the oil industry and frankly, I don't really like the idea of settling there. </p>

<p>Other than fieldwork, which she doesn't want to go into anyway, are there any other industries and cities, say on the West coast or East, where she can make good use of her degree? I know that there are opportunities in environmental work, seismic imaging, and mining that geophysics can open doors to, but I don't know where those jobs are or how hard they are to get into. Is there something else she can work on while she is in school(say programming or such) that she can leverage later to expand her range of industries? Geophysics seems so geographically constrained.</p>

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<p>Honestly, right now commodities , like mining, and petroleum are the hottest fields. There is some major recruititment going on in Canada to help refine and discover tar sands. Last I heard, they are paying at least 100,000 a year entry level. Yes, the location is remote, but I think that most jobs in geology are in remote locations. But someone else may have better information. Be aware though, geological jobs in the commodities are have a boom and bust cycle just like the financial markets, but right now there is a boom.</p>

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<p>Regarding remote locations, I don’t think she wants to go into fieldwork as she tried it before and it didn’t suit her healthwise. I’m more seeing whether there are places for her to work if we stay together and I took a job by say San Francisco or DC. I’m a mechanical engineer.</p>

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<p>DS has just started his PHD in Geophysics at Caltech. His interest is in seismology, and is finding that he will need to learn a lot of computer programing skills in order to be able to work on computer driven earthquake simulations and projections. His goal is either to do research for an agency such as USGS, or move into academia. I highly recommend that she learn as many analytical and computer based skills as possible in order to be able to transition into data intensive analytical jobs in other fields if need be.</p>

<p>"I’m more seeing whether there are places for her to work if we stay together and I took a job by say San Francisco "</p>

<p>The largest USGS facility in the US is here in Menlo Park, 25 miles south of SF, and there are openings every year for new PHD’s.</p>

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<p>Yeah, this sounds like good advice, thanks. She already got an offer from Rice U and the professor she’s been talking with does a lot of computer processing and algorithm work. It’s almost like he’s just a subspecialty of CS. I do think I would advise her to take some supplemental programming or CS coursework.</p>

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<p>“It’s almost like he’s just a sub specialty of CS.”
It really is. I had been encouraging DS to learn some CS earlier but better late than never!
Matlab is a key programming language used in the sciences. And Python.</p>

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<p>As a geophysicist, I was really concerned about winding up in Houston after finishing a PhD, and it’s one of the main reasons that I did not continue with further graduate studies (got an MS instead because it’s a more flexible degree). Furthermore, she should consider that a PhD is typically considered a career limiting move in the corporate world. If your GF wants to go into industry, she had really better want to do research, because it’s not easy to transition back to the main geoscientist track with a PhD in Geophysics. In some cases, her career may be substantially limited or constrained: financially, geographically, and in opportunity for advancement by a PhD. In other cases, it might be advantageous to have a PhD (e.g. if she wants to do research). No one really can say for sure whether it will pay off or not in advance. </p>

<p>However, if she wants to really use her PhD, then she either has to go to industry (Houston), or hope to find a position in academia or a government lab. There are positions in academia and government labs (and limited industrial positions) on the coasts. Positions in academia are fiercely competitive (it’s basically akin to winning the lottery if you land one), and positions in government labs are typically not attractive (Sandia) or not available (USGS, Berkeley, etc.). She might not want to work on the coasts either, because those jobs typically pay MUCH less than those in Houston (maybe 30-50% less than a well-paid petroleum geophysicist). </p>

<p>Outside of those options: if she wants to work in Denver, Calgary, Australia, or any of the more interesting geographic locations, then she probably will never see a significant benefit to getting a PhD as most of the companies in those locations are small, niche players that have limited resources, and do not have significant R&D groups. Some of the larger mining companies (Newmont) are notable exceptions, but they are notoriously difficult to get into, and their geophysics group is tiny: maybe two dozen individuals for the entire company. The few companies in those areas that do hire geophysicists with advanced degrees are typically more software or imaging oriented (in the petroleum industry). If she wants to get in with those companies, than she should heavily emphasize the computer science aspect of her education, and take internships during her graduate career. Outside the petroleum industry, the environmental and engineering industries do hire PhDs in better geographic locations, but the pay is terrible ($50k for an environmental geophysicist vs >$100,000k for petroleum). Additionally E&E jobs require significant field work and it’s not clear how secure those jobs are in a time of government cutbacks. </p>

<p>This is not to say though that she would not be able to find a decent job in a good location that’s amenable to both of you. I know that some people have managed to pull it off, but the reality is that they are an exception, and not the rule.</p>

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<p>So what options do you have as an MS in Geophysics that a PhD shuts down? Can’t you apply for those same jobs as a PhD if you can’t find something more suitable?</p>

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<p>“the environmental and engineering industries do hire PhDs in better geographic locations”</p>

<p>I know environmental, but what engineering discipline requires geophysics? Structural engineers? Are there private companies that use seismologists, say in the Bay Area? I’m also interested in hearing about what these unconventional opportunities are for living in a good location and making bank. She can try to direct summer internships towards them. I should point out that she is not a US citizen, and so USGS or government labs aren’t an option for several years and that’s if she even wants to ever become a citizen.</p>

<p>She’s not set on MS or PhD at this point. I mean, yeah if she could make $100k+ working for Exxon and I could do the same that would certainly be more than comfortable, but is it worth shackling yourself to Houston for your one and only intangible life? Even Austin would be tolerable. </p>

<p>I’ve been talking to her a little about it, and at this point, she just wants to make sure she gets to use her degree for more than a manager position at McDonalds. I guess I should just focus on becoming insanely wealthy in the next 3 years and maybe ask her to load up on computer science and math courses and try interning in software over the summer as a backup. Worst case she can do a postdoc anywhere right?</p>

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<p>Well for one thing the PetE discipline would require a knowledge of geophysics. Also, whatever field of engineering that deals with mining and hydraulic fracking. Structural of course. You would want to know the geology of the area where you’re building a structure. You don’t want to build something where the landscape will make whatever structure you’re building unstable.</p>

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<p>It is true that the vast majority of geophysicists get swept up in oil jobs, and the vast majority of oil jobs get swept up in Houston. However, I know of quite a few people who do a stint in Houston, then move someplace they prefer (Bakersfield California, Pennsylvania, Denver). As I believe someone else noted though, these are often smaller regional companies, so they may be less willing to invest in a Ph.D. Generally the majors (Exxon, BP, etc.) hire Ph.D. folks, and the majors are almost all based in Houston.</p>

<p>Aside from government jobs, you’d be hard-pressed to find anything near San Francisco or DC. Academic positions are an option as well, although of course those are pretty difficult to get, and will likely require a postdoc first. Most positions in the earth sciences require a decent bit of geographic flexibility, so your girlfriend should consider this sooner rather than later. As for you, are your objections against living in Houston based on anything other than, well, the fact that it’s a concrete-covered ex-swamp?</p>

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<p>“As for you, are your objections against living in Houston based on anything other than, well, the fact that it’s a concrete-covered ex-swamp?”</p>

<p>Well, when you put it that way…Yeah, I’m not enamored by Houston itself, nor the sweltering climate it occupies. More than that though I don’t myself want to go into oil and there are not so many interesting employers in Houston that don’t deal with oil or gas. Even Austin, I think, would be quite a bit more tolerable on all counts, but not companies. I don’t particularly need her to make 150k or even a 100k and I don’t she does either. She just wants work that she can do well and get paid fair wages for. Her main reason for doing a graduate degree is getting the credentials to work for US employers in a non-fieldwork position, which is what she was doing with Schlumberger earlier.</p>

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<p>The only place Bakersfield is a step up from is Death Valley.</p>

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<p>^^LOL!! ain’t that the truth!</p>

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<p>Not helping…</p>

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<p>Although I will agree with you that Austin is a more entertaining city than Houston (I am in Austin myself), there is absolutely no way that the entirety of the fourth largest city in the country is employed in oil and gas. I’m not sure what you consider an “interesting” employer, but as someone who is currently occupying the other side of this conversation (finishing grad school and looking for employment, while being somewhat hampered by a beau who wants to live someplace “fun” and “interesting” and “not in the south”), try to have an open mind. Finding specialized scientific work is hard enough without a peanut gallery grumbling about whatever idea you come up with.</p>

<p>This sounds snarky, but it’s not meant to be. Pretty soon you will be experiencing the two-body problem, as one half of a high-powered science couple. In a few years, you may not have the luxury of moving someplace interesting - you’ll have to move someplace where you both can get a job, wherever that might be. This would be a problem whether she’s a geophysicist or anything else in this field, so might as well make your peace with it now.</p>

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<p>With a MS, you can work your way back to a position as an interpreter, non-specialist scientist, or into management more easily than with a PhD. Once you have those three letters attached to your name, you will be expected to be in R&D. Very, very, very few PhDs successfully transfer back to the more “business” oriented positions in O&G companies. A PhD is both a boon and a curse in the geosciences. On the one hand, many of the truly interesting (and potentially rewarding) jobs are accessible with only a PhD. On the other hand, your geographic options are incredibly limited, your ability to move up is very limited, and you might find that your salary is significantly less than someone with only a BS who went to work straight out of college in one of the “business” related areas. </p>

<p>You can probably apply for MS or BS positions with a PhD, but you will be effectively “underemployed.” Not to mention that a PhD in Geophysics typically takes 4-7 years… Why would you spend all that time to just get a job that you could have gotten with only two years of effort? Think long and hard about that one.</p>

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<p>Civil engineers use geophysics more often nowadays to do nondestructive evaluation, and environmental consulting firms use geophysics to monitor environmental contamination. By in large though, those fields are TINY compared to the size of oil and gas. Most geophysicists (by shear numbers) will wind up in Oil and Gas.</p>

<p>There are private companies (think insurance forecasters) that employ seismologists in the Bay Area, but they probably represent only a couple dozen jobs total. That is not a career plan in my opinion.</p>

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<p>If she wants to stay in the US, then most likely she will need to get a PhD in order to become eligible for Visa sponsorship. Because she needs sponsorship, there’s probably a 80% chance that she’s going to wind up in Houston immediately upon graduation, as the majors are really the only ones that are willing to go through the hassle.</p>

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<p>I don’t think it’s worthwhile to tether yourself to Houston just to make big bucks, but most people don’t think about that until it’s way too late. At least you have the foresight to see the writing on the wall.</p>

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<p>Yes and no. Postdoc positions are not a good backup plan, as they typically last for only one or two years tops and then you’re forced out. If you’re planning on staying somewhere for longer than one or two years, she’s going to need to find a permanent position somewhere.</p>

<p>It’s also really hard (in the geosciences at least) to work in Houston and then leave Houston after a few years because you’ll be taking a huge cut in salary to do so, and likely be stepping backwards in your career. Houston is referred to as a “black hole” of geoscientists because once you go, you never come back; and it’s mostly true. Only the lucky few get to escape Houston. More likely than not, she will have to change fields to get out of Houston down the road.</p>

<p>Like I said before, it’s not all gloom and doom… Some people do find jobs outside of Houston, but that’s very rare. As a non-citizen, it’s even less likely.</p>

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<p>“Some people do find jobs outside of Houston, but that’s very rare. As a non-citizen, it’s even less likely.”</p>

<p>though that may be more likely in Alberta, Canada, but I’m not sure what your employment opportunities would be there. [ at least it wont be to hot!] Given that Canada has the 3rd largest oil reserves of any nation. there will be huge opportunites in the O&G industry there in the coming decades.</p>

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<p>I don’t want to hijack this thread, but I’m curious about how many jobs there are for someone with an MS in geophysics who /is/ interested in fieldwork. I enjoy the “office” side of geophysics, but I would love to spend at least a few years working in remote areas or offshore.</p>