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<p>Very true, but the visa issue is a big problem for anyone who wants to work abroad. It’s almost impossible nowadays to find an international job for a new graduate, because there are so many unemployed, it’s hard to get visas.</p>
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<p>It’s hard to say how many field based positions are available. In environmental and engineering geophysics there are more field positions available than in oil and gas. In E&E, most positions will have a strong field component to them, but these positions are: harder to find in general, pay less, and have a significant travel component to them (typically not to desirable places). For example, unexploded ordinance (UXO) detection and removal is a field with a good amount of field work for geophysicists. There are certainly other fields available too for geophysicists seeking field work, but you have to be lucky to find one of those jobs, as they are in high demand (mining, geothermal, civil engineering, seismology, volcanology, government, etc.)</p>
<p>In O&G, most geophysicists who work in the “field” serve as observers on data acquisition crews, which basically means they sit in a trailer and QC data all day. Doesn’t sound very glamorous does it? On the upside, you get to travel, the pay is amazing, and you typically have a lot of paid time off (e.g. 4 weeks on, 4 weeks off). </p>
<p>Most of those (field) positions do not require Masters degrees.</p>
<p>[Geosciences:</a> Earth works : Naturejobs](<a href=“http://www.nature.com/naturejobs/science/articles/10.1038/nj7346-243a]Geosciences:”>Nature Careers | Science jobs | Choose from 1,133 live vacancies)</p>
<p>If you’re doing computational work, then there is actually possibly no better field to be in. Geophysics PhDs are generally happier than PhDs in other areas, and there does seem to be a low people to problems ratio in the area (unlike chemistry and physics)</p>
<p>Pseudoghost and others, your information and advice is invaluable. However, you are all approaching the issue of what choices are available from the angle of having a passion to do geophysics. My gf doesn’t. She’s the first in her family to go to college and chose her major simply because there would be jobs available for it after graduation. She currently works as a geophysicist in Beijing doing inversion modeling, but her main reasons are the pay and the fact that she’s highly competent at it.</p>
<p>Another point of disclosure. I’m already working for an oil company in Houston. I met my gf while we were doing field engineer training, but she left the company shortly afterwards due to health issues, while I finished my stint and returned to Houston as a design engineer. When I say Houston and the oil industry are not where I would like to spend my entire life or career I’m not just running a thought experiment. I don’t think i’m inflexible, but I have to have limits. I will even allow for the slim chance that I may decide to remain in or return to Houston for financial reasons, but I can’t accept being forced to stay here. I’ve lived in or near Chicago, NYC, Boston, San Fran and Atlanta and I would rather be within a couple hours drive of any of those places than at the center of Houston. The industries I hope to transition into later are primarily Cali-oriented with pockets in Austin and along either coasts.</p>
<p>My gf’s angle in getting a graduate degree at either MS or PhD level is simply ensuring she will not have to do field work again. My angle in her getting a degree is that it is a chance for her to come experience living in the US with me. If we stay together, a visa won’t be an issue by the time she graduates. If not, then she can easily work for a major in Houston or Beijing or Shanghai as she prefers. I’m not exactly with her for the money, so it doesn’t matter to me if she works or not. As for her, she just wants to work in a professional setting in a position where she can excel. At this stage, she says is even ok with - and I’m sure this opinion is liable to change as she starts her graduate program - not using her degree after graduation so that we can live together.</p>
<p>That seems like a waste though. The professor who offered her a research position in Rice is actually primarily a chair in the Applied and Computational mathematics department. He just chooses to focus on developing models for geophysics. My gf would essentially be designing and writing software for the geophysics market. Would a smaller software company be willing to take this experience and ignore the Geophysics and PHD part of her title to give her a coding gig? Could she parlay her research project into a minor in computer science or such while she is getting her main degree in geophysics? So you guys have highlighted the options to directly use her geophysics degree, but what tangential fields would a computational geophysics degree would qualify you for?</p>
<p>I would tend to agree that getting a graduate degree without intending to use it is an enormous waste - not only a waste for your girlfriend, but a waste of resources for her university and advisor. (There are not many professors willing to accept a student who openly admits to not intending to use their degree - it reflects poorly on them when former students leave the field, and they’d prefer to put grant money towards a student who would get more out of it.) Also, you can’t get a “minor” in grad school. You can get an additional M.S. before or after finishing a Ph.D., but you are typically not allowed to be in two graduate programs concurrently - nor should you try to be, as it would probably be a disaster.</p>
<p>On the other hand, is she really considering getting a Ph.D. in a field she doesn’t really care about just to avoid field work? There are TONS of jobs available for someone with computational abilities that don’t involve a bit of going outside, and the vast majority do NOT require a Ph.D. As someone who is just wrapping up a Ph.D. now, I think it’s really important to convey that graduate school is absolutely nothing like an undergraduate degree. As an undergraduate, you show up to class, do your assignments, take tests, and get a degree. Although there are classes in grad school, by far the most important thing you do is self-directed research. How can you come up with research that keeps you passionate and happy if you don’t really even care about the field you’re in? Coming to a Ph.D. with no plan is a recipe for burnout (as I have seen countless times in my own department).</p>
<p>To my mind, your girlfriend should absolutely do an M.S., if she ends up staying in her field (since you do need at least some graduate school to be upwardly mobile in most areas of geophysics). If she finds she is passionate about it and wants to leave oil, she will be well-placed for a Ph.D. afterwards. I think that the two of you are working on the solution to step 16, which is, “Where do we want to live after graduation?” But I think you missed step 1, “What does she want to do?” and step 2, “What degree does that require to be successful?” There are a whole string of assumptions you’re making to start worrying about answer 16 that may end up being completely incorrect once 1 and 2 are a little more sorted out.</p>
<p>As far as thinking of what kinds of non-oil things she could do with a (vaguely science-y non-outside) degree, she needs to think about the kinds of questions she likes to answer. Does she enjoy getting into the details of how problems are solved, developing algorithms, making things work? Then she should consider computer science or engineering. Or is she more passionate about answering arm-wavey kinds of questions, tying together lots of disparate fields and ideas? Then she should stay in the earth sciences. </p>
<p>Personally, I am a climate scientist, and I am being recruited by insurance companies looking for natural disaster modelers. I have friends in the geosciences who work in environmental consulting, who develop educational materials for national parks, who travel to developing countries to do hydrology studies to improve agricultural practices, who got law degrees and now practice environmental law. These obviously require totally different skill sets and interests, which is why I don’t think you’re ready to answer your, “Where can we live?” question yet.</p>
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<p>There are plenty of jobs available in O&G with a Bachelors where she would not have to do field work. Has she tried applying as an interpreter? How about a seismic data processor (sounds like she’s doing something similar already). With a Masters she definitely would not be doing fieldwork.</p>
<p>It’s a big plus that the visa would not be an issue. That opens up more options.</p>
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<p>I’m 90% sure I know who you’re talking about, but I won’t use names. She would probably be developing physical modeling software, which is a valuable skill set to learn. But, there are only maybe a dozen companies worldwide that actively develop that type of software. You probably do not want to work for the contracting companies: the environment is more stressful, they pay less, and are very demanding. If possible, get in with a major or a software company. </p>
<p>Small software companies (that are geophysics oriented) are typically flush with PhDs in the geosciences. Most often, because they want to work in better locations geographically. The problem is that most of the jobs at said companies typically do not require a PhD. Which raises the natural question: was it worth getting the PhD at the end of it? </p>
<p>An advanced degree in geophysics is very flexible. If she’s willing to look around, she can probably find work in any number of related (or some-what related fields): especially if the visa is not an issue.</p>
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<p>Ok let’s be careful about avoiding misinterpretation here as there’s no telling who’s reading. I didn’t say she intends not to use the degree, I said she might be ok if she is not able to directly use the degree. For example my mom got her medical license outside the US and when my parents moved here she couldn’t practice. But now she manages clinical trials for a big pharma and is quite happy doing that. </p>
<p>Actually I would contend the entire point, as the work you do as a PhD stands on its own as “payment” for your education and living expenses. Many PhDs go into the field just out of their own curiosity or to boost their career and only a select few go on to do great things that the schools can put in their brochure.</p>
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<p>Again, nothing was mentioned about her not caring about the field, it’s just not a childhood passion the way it is for some people. She was #1 out of her 200+ graduating class in Geophysics, so she takes pride in her competence at the field rather than the nature of the work itself. Her current work has her using geophysics software to interpret data. Going into developing the models behind it and then writing the code is not much of a stretch. If anything she is overstressed about how much work she expects a PhD to require and I’m trying to convince her that she will actually have time to breathe and maybe even get some R&R on the weekends. </p>
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<p>I just want to make sure that step 16 has numerous answers. It’s not even step 16. I was browsing job postings for myself just to see what was out there, and decide to cross check to see if there were geoscience positions closeby. The lack of that prompted this whole soul-searching. Like Pseudoghost said, Houston is a black hole for geoscientists, and it’s good to acknowledge that before hand. Like you said yourself, the two body problem is not a trivial one. Often think it’s easier to be really rich or really poor so you can move around at will for work either way. For us intellectual types, it’s hard finding a location that fits for both. So why not look ahead?</p>
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<p>Well, she obviously has work now as an interpreter. The posting was for a MS, but she applied and the boss was impressed enough to giver her a job - and she’s doing pretty well as he also saw fit to give her a 60% year end bonus. But I’m not sure if she could go straight from that to a job in the US even with her oil major pedigree. </p>
<p>She applied to some schools as MS, so still waiting on those. She hasn’t decided between MS and PhD - but she does like the project she’s been offered. Anyway, you can only try for a PhD right? if she burns out, she burns out. Many don’t make it through various steps of the process. She’s done research before so it’s not something she’s unprepared for by any means. And grad school, if done right and on time can be a good experience in itself. </p>
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<p>Ever heard of anyone doing this? Or going more out of field than say the insurance people looking for modeling work?</p>
<p>Well…she now also has an interview offer from Stanford. However, due to deadline issues, she had to apply to their Energy resources engineering department rather than geophysics. There’s no specific research topic offered yet, but the ones available are all petroleum related. </p>
<p>Clearly Stanford is at the pinnacle of its field but would a MS or PhD degree in energy engineering be just as restrictive(or perhaps more so) in terms of location as a geophysics one?</p>
<p>There is no oil production in Northern California. You can do your academics at Stanford but working in the pertoleum industry in California means living in Bakersfield and if you think life in Houston would be bad, just wait until you experience Bakersfield. While I think it is as clean as they can make it, producing and refining oil is by nature a dirty business. Living in the vicinity of an oil field or refinery is never going to be like living near a semiconductor plant. It sounds like your GF is a mathematical genius and would have a very bright future in the software industry. She may be fixated on oil and gas now because it is what she is used to, even if not totally comfortable with it. Once you get to Palo Alto she would have an opportunity to see how many lucrative opportunities there are for someone with her quantitative skills.</p>
<p>So Stanford just offered my GF a fully funded MS in Energy Resources Engineering and she’s going to take it. I am guessing that a Stanford degree coupled with math and computer science heavy coursework will open up lots of opportunities outside of petroleum engineering ? She is open to it, when we are discussing our future.</p>
<p>Very interesting and useful discussion. To be more specific, today I see a bunch of non-Houston openings for seismologists:
- Bechtel in MD
- Air Worldwide in MA
- URS in CA
- Paul Rizzo Ass. in PA
- geophys postdocs with LANL</p>
<p>I have not been able to learn much about these companies from glassdoor.com. Does anyone know
- how much they pay?
- if they offer some stability?
- if they offer reasonable work/life balance?
- if one should consider long-term careers with these companies?
Thanks!</p>
<p>The postdoc will be a short-term gig. Pay is generally in the $40-50K range, although may be a little higher at Los Alamos. You may be able to transition to a research position afterwards if you’re lucky, but generally expect to be job-hunting again in a year or two.</p>
<p>AIR is in the insurance field, developing models of natural disasters. I’m a research scientist in the same field, and the pay is comparable to oil (but it doesn’t go as far in Boston as it would in Houston). I’ve heard good things about working there, and although there are busy periods, the workload is typically not excessive.</p>
<p>Thanks for sharing. I wonder if cat modeling is a big industry. I see three fairly well established, yet small, companies and a couple of startups. If something goes wrong, is there any other type of job a cat modeler can easily switch to?</p>
<p>Cat modeling is a relatively young field - it didn’t exist before the late 1980’s, and really got going after Hurricane Andrew in 1992. Because of that, it’s not an enormous field (so, not oil), but there are plenty of opportunities, and it’s growing rapidly (hence all the startups). The three main modeling companies, AIR, RMS, and EQECAT, are not enormous. However, most cat modelers actually work within insurance or, more commonly, reinsurance companies. These are large and well-established entities - look at companies like Swiss Re, Munich Re, Willis Re, Guy Carpenter, plus lots more smaller divisions.</p>
<p>Does anyone know if Canadian oil companies are willing to hire geophysicists from the US? Do they sponsor visas for US citizens?</p>
Thanks for all that information. I wonder if you still think that CAT modeling companies pay almost as well as oil companies. As far as I know, a typical salary in large oil company for someone with ~5 years of experience is ~150K + 20K bonus. The work environment in some large oil companies is usually very nice (unless you are being laid off, which is quite common these days) but I have heard that work environment in at least one CAT modeling company is terrible. I am also wondering about the location diversity of CAT modeling jobs. I have an impression that service companies are in SF or Boston, while insurance companies are in NY and PA. Is this more or less correct? Thanks!