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This is simply not the case. Why would top-schools accept kids that they know will not graduate, or succeed at their school?</p>
<p>Harambee, they have to keep a certain number of minorties to keep prestige. That is why. A kid with a 1780 and 3.6 taking all normal classes shouldn’t be going to Brown.</p>
<p>I’m trying to say that your statement regarding minorities not succeeding at top colleges is false. That is all. I don’t want to change the direction of this thread as it seems that the OP may have legitimate concerns.
For the most part, a kid with a 1780 and a 3.6 won’t be accepted to Brown.</p>
<p>I agree Harambee. The truth is there are many urms capable of doing the work at all the ivys. It is a lot harder to gain entry to these institutions than it is to graduate.</p>
<p>
Well, duh. Ask yourself how many kids out of the 2.9 million or so graduating these days are those “normal” kids. Then ask yourself how many spots the schools like HYP have to offer each year.</p>
<p>I have to correct one thing, OP, a 2000-2100 on the SAT is not “normal”. That’s way above the average which is like a 1500. I have no idea why so many braniacs are attracted to this website, but don’t let them foggy up your perception of your own performance.</p>
<p>Anyway, when tens of thousands of students from all over the world apply to one school, it’s only going to pick the best of the best. Especially if it has a reputation to maintain. So, no, “normal” (as in average) kids have no chance.</p>
<p>Also, on a random note, thank you for typing out the names of those schools rather than saying “HYP”.</p>
<p>The process is tough. But looking at what you end up with, I guess it’s more than worth it.</p>
<p>What? A degree? The same degree you get from any other college? For how “prestigious” these schools are, I really don’t think people get out of them what they put in.</p>
<p>
Don’t misunderstand me. All I am saying is that the present system of evaluation of applicants by the top colleges, more often than not, disregards many deserving students. Judging profiles only by numbers and ECs (that seem tailored for college applications) invariably neglects many worthy and promising students. The entire college admission process seems fundamentally flawed. It’s based on numbers, more numbers, the glamorous ECs and the essay. I like the concept of essays. They are a good way to know who the person is. But of late, I’ve seen and heard people taking “help” from some education “counselors”, who do a little more than just counsel. They think it is ethical to help students write (not edit) the essay in lieu of a handsome sum of moolah. With changing times, the admission process should change too! Maybe the “video essay” thing in Legally Blonde could serve as an interesting tool. =p</p>
<p>“All I am saying is that the present system of evaluation of applicants by the top colleges, more often than not, disregards many deserving students.”</p>
<p>What you call “disregarding” I would say is a function of the marketplace. Not enough seats for qualified warm bodies. For your statement to be true, then you’re supposing that “undeserving” candidates are pushing out “deserving” ones. I don’t agree.</p>
<p>No one is saying that selective college admissions is perfectly objective. They themselves will tell you it’s an “art” and not a “science”. But if you can cite any improvements – by all means. You slash their dependence on some academic measures (scores/GPA i.e. “numbers”). What should replace it? Bumps on the skull?</p>
<p>You criticize their reliance on essays and their noting people with outstanding ECs. Besided LORs and essays, how is one’s personality or character to be derived? A psychological exam? As for outstanding ECs, a good determinant of future success/involvement in college can be argued is their accomplishments to date, no? Why wouldn’t top schools want people who’ve achieved top ECs? </p>
<p>Give us your revolutionary improvements. I don’t see any forthcoming</p>
<p>The reason you have issue here is that the so-called “top schools” can only take so many students. And that whatever measures the schools use, someone will try to outwit them (essay ghost writers, counselors, etc.). They are the problem, not the set of measures schools use.</p>
<p>But trust me, if they were viable candidates for HYPMS, etc. then they’ll do fine wherever they attend.</p>
<p>@Harambee</p>
<p>This is exactly what I’m saying. Minorities with a 1760 sat and 3.6 gpa DO GET ACCEPTED to brown from my school because they are minorities. Just because of their skin color they are getting accepted over kids with 2200 and 4.0 gpas. And the only difference between the minorities at my private shcool and the white kids is that the minorities have a different skin color.</p>
<p>
Your doubt is true only in some cases. Please don’t generalize.</p>
<p>
Right, because admissions at HYP is not holistic.
And what should it be based on? It’s flawed because of you happen to be weak in these certain areas?</p>
<p>In any case, from what I understand from your posts, you are complaining that arguably the three top schools in the nation do not accept “average” kids, which seems to be your definition of “normal”. Exactly why should these three schools accept average kids? Should professional sports leagues accept “normal” athletes? Nobels be awarded to “normal” scientists, writers, humanitarians? Your entire argument just comes off as whiny and terribly immature.</p>
<p>Yes. Most people I know from Harvard are pretty normal. I’ve met some dumb people from Princeton too.</p>
<p>^ Define “normal” and “dumb” please…</p>
<p>My strong feeling is that there are many “normal” kids who go to the Ivies. The Ivies have deemphasized the legacies, allowed more minorities and have taken financial hurdles down. But students still have to prove themselves in the classroom and standardized tests and essays and EC’s. But to maintian being an elite school you have to attract elite normal kids, not average normal kids.</p>
<p>Are you kidding? The HYPS take a number of normal’ kids, especially Harvard. Hey, Yale took Bush who had a bit over 1200 on SATs. All you need is BIG MONEY or a BIG NAME.</p>
<p>There are thousands of schools in the US – many of them excellent – for “normal” kids. The fact that only a handful is extremeley selective should be celebrated, not bemoaned. It means that “normal” kids in the US have more educational opportunities than “normal” kids just about anywhere else.</p>
<p>My advice would be to research the topic and see what the colleges themselves are saying, and look at their admissions data and the like, and also find the articles where admissions people talk on the QT about the realities of the admissions process. CC is a great resource, but keep in mind that what people write is based on their own experiences (as mine is), and that many times what they write reflects teir own views, like for example an ivy grad saying “of course ivies, especilly my school, is the best/has the best/admits the best”, others will tell you don’t bother to apply without a 2400 SAT, 4.x GPA and EC’s of a mother theresa, and that could reflect their own view (maybe from someone who wanted to go to an ivy, didn’t get in, and said it was because they weren’t perfect), you never know. I also know that college admissions people look at CC, and many of them roll their eyes at some of the stuff posted here (not exactly a secret, or surprising to me),because even for kids who got into an ivy, they are talking only about their own experience, they don’t really know.</p>
<p>Based on that, I would advise never letting the conventional wisdom here or anywhere else totally decide your decision making, and that especially when it comes down to processes like admissions that are not done by computer, are not done by mathematical forumulas or anything approaching it, people claiming ‘you have to be X’ or ‘you have to be Y or Z’ are speculating on something they don’t know the answer to and couldn’t possibly, because there is no formula. Admissions are decided by human beings, not machines, and they are not done by grades or SAT’s or whatever alone, where they say “magic formula is gpa*sat/gpa+sat” and unless the answer >X, you don’t even stand a chance, doesn’t work like that. Therefore, do the research, and if you feel you have a chance, go for it.</p>
<p>^ #30 and #33</p>
<p>It’s a bit of a catch-22, really. If HYP didn’t accept only the best of the best, they wouldn’t have the prestigious reputation that they have today. And if they didn’t have the reputation, you wouldn’t be so concerned about their selectiveness, now, would you?</p>