<p>^ I agree. Selective schools’ admissions websites have explicitly stated on more than one occasion that there is no set quota for each country, state, school, etc. They can choose to accept as many people as they want for any one high school and reject as many as they want.</p>
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<p>My objection was directed to your drawing a faulty comparison that 7 out of 100 applicants is equivalent to winning the lottery, when in fact it isn’t. Here’s what you actually said: “the lottery wasn’t undoable for that ticket holder, but that doesn’t means [sic] the odds were not long for them.”</p>
<p>Once again, there is no connection between 7 out of 100 applicants being accepted into an Ivy league school and your one-in-a-million long shot at winning the lottery. </p>
<p>Perhaps you should consider a remedial court in math, since you don’t understand basic math percentages, which would explain why you tried to tie the two together.</p>
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<p>The difference is that the 100 applicants applying at an Ivy league school are on reasonably equal footing based on the 7% acceptance rate. Thus, their goals are attainable. This, however, cannot be said for those playing the lottery, since each participant is facing overwhelming odds at never winning. Thus, the degree of attainability is significantly lower for the lottery participants, as opposed to the 100 Ivy applicants.</p>
<p>Even someone with your limited reasoning should be able to figure that out; but I won’t hold my breath.</p>
<p>I’m not at Princeton or Harvard, but I was waitlisted at Harvard and accepted into Dartmouth, my current school. I am not considered exceptionally smart, but I reached goals in my life that many would considered unattainable. I attended a prestigious high school that did not offer class rankings in New Jersey. Therefore, I was unable to attend a state school through its STAR program. This left me with little options, so I decided to take a year off and work…yep, I worked at Macy’s in the day and Target at night. I retook my SATs and scored a 2300. I also began volunteering on the weekends at a local architecture firm. This, along with the fact that my school was now ranked in the nation’s top 5, I believe helped me get into colleges that I never considered. I am also a first-generation college student, so this definitely helped me cultivate a “hook”, so to speak. Although what I did was not exceptional, the circumstances that I overcame in addition to my achievements were.</p>
<p>Paralegal - I am afraid you are the one with comprehension difficulties. Here is what you quote me saying:</p>
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And here is what you interpret it as apparently:
That is so faulty on your part I hardly know where to start. It doesn’t mean that at all. Not even close. Is English your native language? I never said they were equivalent. AGAIN, I actually said they were not. I am directly saying in that quote that your ridiculously irrelevant statement (that something isn’t unobtainable for someone that attains it) doesn’t mean that the odds for attaining it were not, potentially, somewhat remote in the first place. Of course there are longer odds for the lottery. I said that in the first post on this topic and I will say it again, since you continue to ignore it. It doesn’t negate the point of this entire discussion, that the odds of getting into HYP are also small, no matter how good a student you are. It is such a simple truth that if you cannot get it now, I will just have to let you ponder it for a while.</p>
<p>Anyone reading this can see you are failing completely to grasp what I said. I am sorry it eludes you so badly. BTW, besides being a chem major I was also a math major. I think I understand these things just fine. You just keep responding to something I never said. Are you familiar with the term “false premise”? I never stated the premise you keep pounding on.</p>
<p>Ivies put too much weight on test scores and ECs. I am a bad test-taker because I have a lot of anxiety problems, but that doesn’t mean I am unworthy of admission to Princeton, which was my dream school since fourth grade. </p>
<p>And so what if you do a lot of community service or extra-curriculars? If that is not something you truly like doing, why should you fake it for admissions purposes? If you can do that, then maybe you can go for plastic surgery to become a minority so you can claim the benefits of affirmative action. </p>
<p>If they want exceptional students, why don’t they look more at passion and creativity or problem-solving ability and orient their essays more towards describing this instead of a specific question. I could have rambled on and on about my passions for math, physics, and creative writing, but the essay questions posed never welcomed that.</p>
<p>Let’s see, these schools essentially look at four areas: Grades, test scores, EC’s and recs. I am of course putting aside big donors and other highly exceptional cases. So FearofZero, you want them to essentially ignore half of the criteria? If you have anxiety problems now, why do you think it will be different around some of the smartest people in the world? Also, passions for anything, including math, physics and creative writing can be turned into EC’s. I find it very hard to believe there was no way to communicate this to the school.</p>
<p>Besides, once again, given all the applicants that have what you have AND have good test scores and EC’s, they should take you because…???</p>
<p>Uhh, you’ve been here five years and just realized that? Shouldn’t basic logic teach you that?</p>
<p>No, good-but-not-great students do not get into HYP. Why should they? There are a lot of these kids, and only very few extraordinary ones. Really, wouldn’t it be sadder if good-but-not-great applicants <i>were</i>being accepted, and extraordinary ones rejected? I like to believe there’s an element of meritocracy in admissions, as opposed to fluke (which seems to be what you’re hoping for?)</p>
<p>Nor do I understand what’s so sad about this. Why is it tragic for an ordinary kid to go to an ordinary school? It’s absolutely still possible to be successful coming out of such a school–some qualities that lead to success can’t be translated onto a college app. If you have what it takes to excel in a certain field, and have true drive, having attended a good-but-not-great college will not hold you back. No one <i>needs</i> to go to Harvard.</p>
<p>“This is really sad, since most kids who have those “exceptional” profiles which include but is not limited to - Published Research Projects, Summer Programmes at Ivy Schools, International Social Service etc etc, do so with the sole purpose of getting in these colleges.”</p>
<p>Hmmm I disagree with this one. First of all, kids with published research projects and the like are going to be either brilliant, or very bright and intensely hard workers. To be doing that in high school is extremely impressive, and probably does speak to a passion for their field. And yes, I’m sure that many of them do consider how it will look on their app. But…so what? If that is how a kid is spending his or her summer, as opposed to hanging out at the beach, or whatever, then that certainly speaks to an intense drive.</p>
<p>As for uncommon charity work, like building homes in Africa for three weeks, then yes, I think that’s often done with apps in mind. But isn’t it still impressive to go to Africa for three weeks without your parents? I know I couldn’t have done this at age sixteen. And anyway, no mediocre kid has ever gotten into an extraordinary school just for going to Africa. It would have to be backed up extensively.</p>
<p>I don’t know…maybe the system isn’t perfect, but what qualities should they be looking for? Do you really think HYP admissions officers should look past the National Merit finalists, researchers, etc., and say “but this kid Johnny, with his 2000 SAT and his one EC seems like he has a lot of heart!”</p>
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<p>This makes me feel a little better. When I see all the scores people on here have, I wonder how practically all of them have that high of scores. I then think, maybe people who are bound to get high scores are the type who are attracted to this site and maybe I am one of them. I haven’t taken the test yet.</p>
<p>It could just be the people with lesser scores are too embarrassed to post them because of the plethora of high scores, or there really is a lot of average scores from people on here that I did not see.</p>
<p>Probably wishful thinking on my part.</p>
<p>By the way, I don’t know how to quote on here. Most websites have a ‘quote’ option next to the message, and this seems to have ‘reply’ only, so I just did my own quote box.</p>
<p>Personal performance like acceptance outcomes from colleges is not a random outcome.
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<p>He has the perfect outcomes for HYP on three independent trials. When you apply the average admit rate of these three colleges as a random odd, how do you justify the case like this? </p>
<p>He just did not know how these colleges liked him until the processes were over. He was not admitted thru random odds.</p>
<p>The average accepted student at Harvard has roughly a 2150 SAT</p>
<p>“I am a bad test-taker because I have a lot of anxiety problems, but that doesn’t mean I am unworthy of admission to Princeton, which was my dream school since fourth grade.”</p>
<p>You do not deserve admission to Princeton; no one does. The admissions committee will either choose you because they think your admissions profile presents a compelling portrait of an individual who has performed exceptionally academically and will enrich the community of the school. You don’t deserve admission id you got a 2400, if you won an Olympiad, or if you’ve written an amazing personal statement, though these things might contribute to the decision whether or not to admit you.</p>
<p>As for your criticism that selective schools pay too much attention to standardized test scores, it’s pretty much untrue. All of the qualitative factors that you value come into play; there’s a reason that the admissions process is holistic. Standardized tests are not even close to an objective and fair method of evaluating intelligence and/or academic potential. Admissions committees realize this, so the fact that you don’t have a perfect SAT score won’t necessarily disqualify you from being admitted. That said, standardized tests are one of the only ways that admissions committees can hold applicants to a universal standard (flawed as it may be), so they are a useful tool in admissions.</p>
<p>Alas, I fear I’m wasting my time with you, though. Your post betrays your bitterness and about the admissions process and attitude of self-entitlement. Just because a school values a quality that you don’t possess doesn’t make it wrong to value that quality. Moreover, admissions committees DO look for passion and creativity and you are given numerous opportunities to highlight your passions and interests on the application. But no, applications will never be based solely on the qualitative factors that you excel at. Sorry.</p>
<p>Nosike, where are you getting that statistic? I have heard that the average SAT score for admits is at least 100 points higher- more like 2250.</p>
<p>Middle 25-75% from the 2008-09 Harvard common data set (most recent posted):</p>
<p>SAT Critical Reading
690-800
SAT Math
700-780
SAT Writing
690-790</p>
<p>So while not statistically correct, if you approximate by taking the midpoints of each of these you get an average of 2225.</p>
<p>Yes I am bitter, but it is also because Princeton never responded to either of my emails (and neither did my interviewer) even before they rejected me. Am I just not worth their time?
Penn State and Rutgers answered me, and they have an even larger application pool, so there is no excuse for how Princeton ignored me.</p>
<p>My friend went to harvard after high school he was normal… long hair metallica t-shirts played computer games…</p>
<p>Thing is though, those low scores are the URMs, minorities, etc…</p>
<p>If HYP has 5000 applicants with 4.0’s 2300+ SAT’s and they can only accept a couple thousand why would they take someone with “decent grades” and “2000-2100” if they dont have some extraordinary redeeming quality. Who do you think is more serious about being charitable even with the chance its done just for college, someone who traveled to Africa or somebody who hasn’t done any volunteer work.</p>
<p>Its just supply and demand, I’ve accepted that I didn’t work hard enough or have an interesting enough background for HYP there’s no reason to be bitter its just how things are. There’s a reason the HYP individual endowments is the size of a Fortune 500 company; and not because of the many above average kids who go on to lead a decent life.</p>
<p>First person anecdote: we live in the south. My D has good but not great SAT test scores (1950 total, Sept of Junior year, will take again soon with a probable jump to 2000) and a solid 3.7 GPA. She is presently homeschooled, has been since January of her Junior year. Over the past 6 months she has been repeatedly contacted by phone by some of the Ivies and one of top HYP group, as well as others M, C, C, etc. A well-known liberal-arts school offered to fly her up (airfare on them) for an open house in November. She never initiated contact with any of these schools; they initiated contact with her. </p>
<p>What put her on the radar? </p>
<p>She has traveled to over 40+ different countries since she was two months old so she has an offbeat view of the world. She has ridden elephants in Asia, hiked through the Andes, and traveled in jungles via primitive riverboats to remote outposts. She developed a project to transport certain types of supplies (won’t go into detail here) to these isolated areas. She began doing this when she was 12 and it was not for college brown-nosing, but because she has a particular hobby that interests children worldwide, and she saw a need that could fulfill the dreams of others with some time and effort on her part. She never aspired to go to a big-name school; she is a real intellectual but she is more action-oriented than academic. She puts ideas into action (which can occasionally backfire BIG TIME and has presented her with some health issues). </p>
<p>Anyways, she built up the project and over the years she was written up in newspapers, magazines, and on a couple of local TV shows. Not an earth-shattering idea, but a unique, grassroots concept that she designed and costs practically nothing (other than the travel expenses, which are low because she travels bare-bones on chicken buses). </p>
<p>As you can see, she is outside the norm of your average high-achieving, run-of-the mill valedictorian/AP/2300 SAT student that seems like just another cookie-cutter wannabe. Some Ivies do want that diversity of experience, even if it means a less-than-stellar student.</p>
<p>"My D has good but not great SAT test scores (1950 total, Sept of Junior year, will take again soon with a probable jump to 2000) and a solid 3.7 GPA. She is presently homeschooled, has been since January of her Junior year. Over the past 6 months she has been repeatedly contacted by phone by some of the Ivies and one of top HYP group, as well as others M, C, C, etc. A well-known liberal-arts school offered to fly her up (airfare on them) for an open house in November. She never initiated contact with any of these schools; they initiated contact with her. "</p>
<p>Careful. Many colleges including the Ivies deliberately encourage a lot of people to apply. Even those who have little chance of being admitted to increase the number of applications so they could claim lower admitted percentages and thus, claim higher selectivity. This is one way they use to maintain or boost their USNWP rankings. </p>
<p>If your D was already admitted to the elite schools, that would be a different matter. Until that admissions letter is in hand, there are no guarantees of whether one is in or not. Even with the admissions letter, they can always be rescinded as the case of Blair Hornsteine has shown. </p>
<p>On the other hand, the well-known liberal arts school flying her up may be a good sign considering the trouble and expense they are going through. Out of curiosity, which school?</p>