Do "regular" kids get into Harvard

Colleges and Universities A-Z Harvard University
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<p>I’m currently a junior and doing serious thinking about where I’m going to apply. I’m a pretty normal kid meaning that although I get good grades (A’s), take the most challenging AP classes my high school offers, will hopefully graduate in the top 5% of my class, did well on my PSATs and hope to do the same on the SAT’s in March, I don’t view myself as extraordinary. I volunteer in areas that I enjoy and lead an organization that I formed within my school, but outside of that that I’m just a regular 16-year-old. I of course do my homework responsibly, have great relationships with several of my teachers, and save Sunday’s for school work, but outside of that I enjoy my time doing “normal” things like hanging out with friends, going to movies, skiing with my family, exploring the city, going shopping, watching TV and so on. </p>

<p>So many of my friends do nothing other than study, but I live knowing I’m only going to be a kid for a short time and try and create a decent balance, which I think I have….</p>

<p>Does someone like me have a chance? Thanks in advance for your responses.</p>

<p>Alex</p>

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<p>Twenty or thirty years ago, I would have said “Yes, normal kids who get good grades and have great test scores, who hang out with their friends, go to movies, ski with their family and watch TV do have a chance at Harvard.” </p>

<p>These days, however, there’s a new normal. Harvard, and all selective colleges, are looking for normal++++. They are looking for normal students, who also have an overwhelming passion in an academic or extracurricular area – something that makes them stand out from the crowd. This article from last May pretty much sums it up: [Who</a> Got Into the Country?s Top Colleges? - The Daily Beast](<a href=“Who Got Into the Country’s Top Colleges?”>Who Got Into the Country’s Top Colleges?).</p>

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<p>No, unfortunately not. They will accept well rounded students, but not “normal” students as you said. Harvard always emphasizes that you need to stand out in their application pool to be accepted.</p>

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<p>What I have seen repeated hundreds of times, coming from ivy league acceptance professionals, is like the above poster said, Harvard does NOT want well-rounded kids. They want extraordinarily-extraordinary kids (extraordinary^2?) who, together, make up a freshman class with incredibly diverse talents. They’ll have a prolific author, a up-and-coming scientific researcher, a math savant, an world expert on Europe in the paleolithic age, and more. </p>

<p>My two cents.</p>

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<p>gibby,</p>

<p>I read the article, but to me, it seems primarily to repeat the initial assertion without ever really exploring just who gets into the most selective schools.</p>

<p>Let’s reassess the poster’s question: “Do ‘regular’ kids get into Harvard?” The hidden premise of the question is “What is ‘regular’?” However, if the answer to the question is, kids with really high grades and SATs of 2200 or better, if these are “regular” kids, then yes, “regular” kids get into Harvard.</p>

<p>I look at my son and by this definition, he seems a regular kid. Besides pretty good grades (a few A-s, a couple of Bs over the course of four years), and phenomenal test scores the rest of his record looks positively pedestrian up against a lot of kids I saw get rejected last year. He had a handful of extracurriculars. Vice president of his school’s National Honor Society, captain of the quiz bowl team, a couple of other nice things. Selected for a number of school awards, valedictorian.</p>

<p>But nothing that 10,000 other kids who didn’t get accepted could lay claim to, or nearly so.</p>

<p>He stood out in languages - had a lot of years of Latin and Greek, multiple awards on the National Latin and Greek exams. The thing that may have been most distinguishing was that he finished his school’s Latin and Greek curriculum and then did independent study under the guidance of the classics teacher.</p>

<p>But how many kids run out of their high school’s math or science curriculum and need to go to the local college or do dual-enrollment? I don’t think that’s all that unusual.</p>

<p>He had good essays (I’d like to think EXTRAORDINARY essays, but then again, I’m his father :wink: ) and wonderful recommendations, but again, I bet a lot of “regular” kids (as they have been defined here) do, also.</p>

<p>My son won no Intels, no Siemens, no piano competitions, no national, regional or even state awards. Just a really smart, really dynamite, really fun kid who did what he liked, which was mainly read, learn and write.</p>

<p>So. What is the distinguishing feature or set of features? I don’t think that Harvard tells folks.</p>

<p>Why? Because then kids will try to mold themselves to appear to have this attribute. And it’s not real if you’re trying. So they’re not going to tell, and they’re never going to tell. They may not even verbalize it to themselves, for fear of it becoming formalized and reified. </p>

<p>But yeah, whatever it is, even “regular” kids with 2300 SATs and 3.9 GPAs - but no USAMOs, no 501c(3) charities founded, no books-being-made-into-major-motion-pictures published - can have it.</p>

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<p>Hi alexandra1, just wanted to add my two cents. Though I agree that the trend in recent years has been toward the more extraordinary, I think there still are a fair number of people like me; and I am quite similar to the kind of student you describe yourself as. Push yourself in your fields of interest in high school, try hard and give it a shot. At the end of the day, no one here can tell you what your chances are.</p>

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<p>No, what most people consider “regular” kids wouldn’t have a chance. Most Ivy League applicants have outstanding aspects. Their GPA, test scores, and extracurriculars are spectacular, or they have something that makes up for their lack of something (donor, low income, 1st generation) along with everything else that they are amazing in.</p>

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<p>@notjoe: I guess it all spends on your definition of normal. A student who is validictorian is someone who stands out from the crowd – they are normal+++++. To me, that’s not a normal student with good grades and test scores.</p>

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<p>Thank you for the prompt responses, interesting opinions. I’m definitely exploring various schools, but for some reason other than simply it’s status Harvard warmed my heart during my recent visit. No deep thoughts other than it just felt right which is what prompted my initial post earlier. </p>

<p>At this point I’m not sure exactly I want to do, who I want to be professionally, but at 16 I’m not sure I have to just yet. I believe in time I will. Notjoe, I find some similarities between your son and me (not that I’m claiming to have the same intellect), but we do share some common attributes. I too love language and have a knack for it. Although writing is not my passion, I’m told I’m rather good, and most notable I have not written or produced a blockbuster just yet either….</p>

<p>I feel like so many of my friends, my peers do things, join things, create things, only to increase their acceptance odds. They miss out on ordinary life in hope of some future life that may or may not exist. I always believed that college was supposed to help define ones future path instead of just nurturing it (not sure if that’s a question or thought or maybe a small rant). </p>

<p>Anyway, thanks again for responding, I enjoy the numerous perspectives.</p>

<p>Alex</p>

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<p>gibby,</p>

<p>That’s kind of my point. Look at what the original poster says is “normal” - “I get good grades (A’s), take the most challenging AP classes my high school offers, will hopefully graduate in the top 5% of my class, did well on my PSATs and hope to do the same on the SAT’s in March,…”</p>

<p>I know the poster is only a sophomore and there’s lots more time to prove himself, but if he keeps on doing what he’s doing - getting As in the top of the curriculum, then he’ll be competing for the top of his class, too. I don’t know what his PSAT score was, but he seems reasonably satisfied with it, suggesting higher rather than lower.</p>

<p>“Normal” is not all As at the top of the curriculum. That’s “pretty darned good.”</p>

<p>If he has the test scores to match, then he’s not “normal” in the sense of statistically close to the norm, the median, at least, not academically.</p>

<p>Yet, it IS the normal of lots of kids who apply to the top schools.</p>

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<p>First of all you are not “normal”. You certainly not average. Look at the range of test scores of the kids that get accepted to Harvard. If you are in the upper half of that range and if you are at the top of your class you are the norm of those kids who APPLY to Harvard. Out of that group single digit accept rate.</p>

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<p>

</p>

<p>I am not sure who these “professionals” are but that is an oft-repeated myth. I’m a Harvard student who interacts with well-rounded students every day. But if you don’t believe me, ask the Dean of Harvard Admissions:</p>

<p>

[Guidance</a> Office: Answers From Harvard’s Dean, Part 1 - NYTimes.com](<a href=“http://thechoice.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/09/10/harvarddean-part1/]Guidance”>Guidance Office: Answers From Harvard's Dean, Part 1 - The New York Times)</p>

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<p>As for the OP–</p>

<p>I believe you are sort of asking two questions in essence. Question 1 is “how much time do I need to put into academic activities as opposed to non-academic activities in my life?” It’s hard to answer that because I’ve found it depends on how rigorous your high school is. Some high schools require x time and effort to optimally utilize their resources. Others require 2x. As a Harvard student, I’ve met other students who worked their butts off in high school and found Harvard’s workload easy by comparison. I’ve also met other students who spent 2 hours a day on homework max. That doesn’t mean the former are more qualified than the latter, but it’s a reflection of each applicant’s particular circumstances.</p>

<p>Question 2 is “is being ‘normal’ / ‘balanced’ / ‘well-rounded’ a disadvantage in admissions?” If “well-rounded” means well-rounded academically, then certainly not, as you can see in my above quote by the Dean of Harvard Admissions. But if you mean “well-rounded” in the way I think you do, meaning that academics isn’t always the priority, then the answer is that it depends. Successful Harvard applicants both excel at academics and generally also have social skills, leadership ability, strong characters, hobbies, etc. Spending 46 hours of your 48 hour weekends studying in your basement will most likely be a negative, not positive factor in admissions. Not because Harvard doesn’t like effort, but because it’ll almost certainly be at the expense of some other trait that will be discernible in your interview, essays, recs, or other subjectives.</p>

<p>As an anecdote, I wrote my commonapp essay about this very topic. I talked about a point during my sophomore year when I started to excessively prioritize school at the expense of some relationships, and how a certain event made me realize this and change it thereafter. I can’t say if it was a good essay or not, but the Yale admissions officer who accepted me wrote on my letter that my idea of balance stood out to her. I can only assume balance is a good thing, but not at the expense of strong academic credentials.</p>

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<p>Alexandra1,</p>

<p>Hi. My short answer to your question is YES. The kind of “normal” you seem to be has a chance. I don’t really respond to things on CC, but I think I can give some useful tidbits on this particular topic. </p>

<p>I was a silent reader on CC for the second semester of my junior year through now (I’m a senior) and people’s posts really discouraged me from thinking I had a shot in the college admissions process, but I applied early, because I figured if I got in, well awesome, and if I didn’t, I could adjust my regular decision expectations a little bit. I got in, and we sound fairly similar, except maybe at this point my extra-curriculars are a little better, but still they only exist in my school, and probably only because I’ve been in high school longer than you. I’ve tutored, done SGA, have a job, and started a club. My standardized test scores were alright compared to what people tell you they need to be (between a 2000 and 2100 SAT, and a 32 ACT). I only took tests once, because I have a life, and I didn’t want to spend it in various high schools taking a test.</p>

<p>I think I interviewed well, but I doubt that matters because when I told my interviewer I got in, he sounded rather shocked even though he was very much excited. </p>

<p>I also think I wrote really good essays, but I assume most people do. My gpa is not a 4.0–I’m not even top 5%, and I don’t go to a super competitive school. </p>

<p>So I guess what I’m saying is you sound like you do what you’re supposed to do: you get good grades, you do things that interest you, and you obviously care about your future…so just keep doing it. You’ll either get in or you won’t, and I am fairly certain that the make or break thing will be your essays…show that you care about something. And caring, say about whales, doesn’t mean you’ve already saved them, but that you’re actively preparing yourself to one day maybe have a hand in it, then tell them how going to their school will also help to prepare you. </p>

<p>So good luck, and apply…preferably early probably, because there’s only time for senioritis to hit you the longer you wait, and you’ve got the whole school-free month of August to prepare without distractions. Hope this helped…I feel like I kind of rambled.</p>

<p>Keep your self-esteem up in the process, avoid CC because it can seriously cause neurosis during the waiting period, and remember: who the hell are they not to want YOU? If they don’t, they didnt deserve to have you grace their schools campus anyway.</p>

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<p>If your talking about the regular average kids that have between a 2.9 and 3.1 GPA
and 21 on the ACT…No</p>

<p>[Average</a> High School GPAs Increased since 1990 - US News and World Report](<a href=“http://www.usnews.com/opinion/articles/2011/04/19/average-high-school-gpas-increased-since-1990]Average”>http://www.usnews.com/opinion/articles/2011/04/19/average-high-school-gpas-increased-since-1990)
[2012</a> ACT National and State Scores | Average Scores by State | ACT](<a href=“http://www.act.org/newsroom/data/2012/states.html]2012”>http://www.act.org/newsroom/data/2012/states.html)</p>

<p>Well I guess 1 kid did-
[Harvard</a> University - GPA and Test Scores Needed for Admission](<a href=“http://collegeapps.about.com/od/GPA-SAT-ACT-Graphs/ss/harvard-admission-gpa-sat-act.htm]Harvard”>Harvard University: Acceptance Rate, SAT/ACT Scores, GPA)</p>

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<p>From my perch as an interested parent, I have seen numerous kids accepted to Harvard over the past 10 years, and many of them fit the OP’s description of “normal”. All of them were extraordinary in some ways, and all would have been described by their peers as perhaps the smartest person they knew, but only a few had piles of public accomplishments. They were not necessarily valedictorians – there are probably at least 50,000 people who can call themselves valedictorians every year; it’s not a “++++++” factor – but they were all in the top handful of students in their classes academically, and this is at schools with a track records of academic success.</p>

<p>But remember, there are lots and lots of very smart, “normal” students applying to Harvard every year. So while some do get admitted, and probably constitute a majority, or at least a substantial plurality, of each Harvard class, each applicant with that profile probably has a pretty low chance of being accepted.</p>

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<p>Can one of these “normal” kids get accepted with outstanding essays? Because even though I have the stats, I lack the incredibly success in math/science awards, national awards, etc. I feel like essays could be the kicker; is that true?</p>

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<p>Essays can truly make or break your application. Treat the essay as if you would treat your SAT score. Essays are that important if not more.</p>

<p>Best of luck!</p>

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<p>I would also like to suggest that most of the people that post, read and follow CC are not normal people. </p>

<p>25% of Harvard students have scored less the 2100 on the SAT or 31 or lower on the ACT. Reading this forum you would never think so but that’s the reality…</p>

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<p>I doubt that to be true. Where did you get those statistics?</p>