So I’m currently a sophomore in high school. y freshman year I had a 3.4 GPA. Going into sophomore year I moved to a college prep school and I struggled my first term and ended with a 3.0. I’m in the second semester and I’ve been grinding really hard. I might be able to bring my GPA to a 3.5-3.7. Do I still have a shot at an elite college (Stanford, MIT, Vanderbilt?)
I mean both of my brothers have had struggles, but both ended up at the top 20 colleges. My oldest brother went to public school and got some cs at the beginning of high school but was a really good student after. He ended up at WashU. My 2nd to oldest brother went to the best high school in the country ( Phillips Exeter) and got mostly Bs and B+ till halfway of sophomore year when he started to earn most A’s and A-s. He ended up at MIT.
I know I need to work harder but do I have a chance?
@johnwick3 , Why do you care? How do you rate what is a “Top 20” or “elite” college?
You should go where you are happiest. Many kids get this wrong. Going to an Elite College doesn’t make your life easier, and provides no guarantee of being on Easy Street. It is what you do while at college that matters, not so much where you go.
Which person has the better chance at a top grad school or good job post college?
a) Goes to an elite college, has a 2.7 GPA, and scores 80 percentile on grad school exams. Doesn’t do much in terms of a summer internship or extracurriculars. Majors in Philosophy.
b) Goes to your average public state school, gets a 3.8 GPA, scores 95 percentile on grad school exams, loads up on internships and extracurriculars. Majors in Engineering, Finance, or Marketing.
I’m going with B. See what I mean?
Yes, if you go to an elite college, and do all of option B, you have a slightly better chance of getting the prize. But not enough to make a major difference.
Trust me–I went to a top public university, got an MBA at a very good business school, and still had difficulty getting my first job, but am doing well now. I have a friend who went to Wharton for his MBA and he is struggling and has been for years. His degree from Wharton means next to nothing for his current job.
The effort you are putting in is inspiring and because you are only in your sophomore year, you have time to build that GPA up to the 3.7 - 3.8 range. This could be competitive for these schools.
Go for a really strong SAT (1500+) score and maybe even NMS. Be sure to take plenty of APs (or Its or Dual Enrollment).
What is you course load and your prospective field of study?
I’m going to phrase this slightly differently.
Can you get in? Quite possible, if you work really hard from now on, get leadership positions in ECs, contribute meaningfully in class so you get really good teacher recommendations, etc.
But.
It seems every year on CC, we see kids who have done all that with the overriding aim of getting into a tippy-top school. But getting into a tippy-top is also a lottery, because at 5% or so admit rates, nothing is guaranteed, It’s heartbreaking to see kids who have worked to the max for 4 years, got great grades and everything …and didn’t get into any reaches, coming on here and writing that they feel they wasted 4 years of working to the bone in high school. Almost as sad was the poster who did get into an ivy …and didn’t want to go, because high school had left her burnt out, and she just wanted to go to a college where she could relax a bit and not have to keep working at maximum pace.
So tl;dr: whatever you do (work hard, join clubs etc) make sure it is stuff you want to do anyway, and that you will look back on your high school years as being happy and fulfilling even if you don’t get into a “dream school”.
I am going to say no to getting into elite schools. My son had a 4.0 uw, 4.75 w GPA in AP classes (with 5s) and honor’s classes and did not get into any elite schools. Doesn’t mean you shouldn’t apply (maybe you have hooks) but make sure you apply to safety schools that you would be glad to attend.
If you’re at a boarding/prep school then you already have an advantage over other kids. A few B’s won’t kill you. The prep schools have good connections with college admissions. Check with your college counseling office to see where you stand – scatterplots will help.
If you can raise your grades to a 3.7 and win major awards or have any other types of outstanding extracurricular such as starting a nonprofit, you certainly have some type of a chance. But you need to realize why you want to go to a T20 and build a strong hook around your academic interests. Please chance me on my thread if anyone is seeing this, thanks!
Short answer is of course you can! Keep working on the grades. HYPMS is crazy hard to get into for anyone, so nobody can predict that. But top 20 for sure especially if you have a demonstrated academic interest that fits well into one of your targeted schools. Also, if you are able, choose a school (if you are financially able and truly interested) that will give weight to an early decision application and go for it. Have an ED II ready as a backup and realize that you can also get in regular decision if I and II fail. Note that this strategy may not work well if you target early action schools like HYPMS. It will work best at schools that seek ED applications like Vandy and WashU. Finally, don’t forget to consider liberal arts schools. Good luck!
@Aryakhan81 Thank you for your response I really appreciate the positivity. I’m looking into economics or Comp-sci which I know are very competitive. My school doesn’t offer APs but for my grade, they offer 3 advanced courses( I am taking one of them). Next year I’ll be able to take 2. I will keep working hard to improve all my grades especially math and sciences. I’ll try my hardest and get into one of those schools.
@Mom270 I understand what you mean completely. However, I believe. that I still have a shot, as both of my brothers didn’t have the best grades but both got into ivy leagues ( WashU brother got into Cornell, MIT brother got into Princeton, Columbia, and Cornell)
@Sam-I-Am I really appreciate the positivity. I will keep working to achieve my goals. In terms of liberal art schools, I’m looking at Harvey Mudd. My MIT brother got into there so I’m considering applying.
You look at studying a “grind”, so why are you looking to subject yourself to four years of grind? The “elite” colleges aren’t paradises, where one walks through gardens with flowers and butterflies, enjoying balmy sunny days. They are places in which the kids who genuinely enjoy what you feel is a “grind”. They are places in which you will have to continue to “grind” day in and day out for four years. You should really find a college in which you will be able to blossom, study at the rate which fits you, find classes which you will enjoy, and activities which will stimulate you, etc.
Your entire reason for doing well in high school seems to be “I need to work hard to get into an ‘elite’ college”. That isn’t the type of attitude of a person who would thrive in a highly competitive atmosphere of most of the colleges you are mentioning. Your attitude needs to be “I need to work as hard as I can, and do my very best, because that is what I enjoy doing”
First, every year it gets more difficult to be accepted to any of the “elite” colleges, as more and more students apply, and the “arm-race” of GPA and ECs intensifies. So it was easier for your brothers that it will be for you. Exactly how your brother ended up in MIT is probably related to other things that he did, rather than his high school, since MIT really accepts students mostly based on accomplishments rather than on legacy, prestige or high school, or donations. You should ask him.
Can you get into an “elite” college? Yes. Should you? Probably not, unless you start feeling more comfortable with working hard at academics.
The good news is that there are literally hundreds of excellent colleges at which a student who has a 3.4-3.7 GPA will truly enjoy themselves. There are amazing Liberal Arts colleges at which you’ll can find “your people”, large universities at which you will find both classes and activities which you will enjoy.
A 3.7 GPA is not “average”, but quite a bit above average - the average GPA of graduating high school students is about 3.0.
PS. If your brother was accepted to MIT, Princeton, Columbia, HMC, and Cornell, I find it difficult to believe that he got mostly B and B+ grades for his first three semesters, even if he had the connections of Exeter. Moreover, although a person with a GPA of 3.7 has a small chance of being accepted to any one of that list of colleges, I do not see that a person with a 3.7 GPA would be accepted to all five of those colleges, even if they graduated from Exeter.
Upon checking, it seems that Exeter does not consider freshman grades for GPA (they’re all pass/fail), so a single semester with a one or two B or B+ grades could leave a students with a GPA of over 3.9, which would make them competitive for all of those colleges, especially if they had other great accomplishments.
Unfortunately, unless your high school does not consider your freshman year for GPA, you are not in the same situation as your older brother.
However, once again, you are competitive for a long list of excellent colleges. By all means apply to a couple of reaches, but acceptance rates to all of these are already very low, and they are even more slim for you.
On the other hand - are you a legacy at any of those colleges?
@johnwick3, I do think you should aim high but from my recent experience of seeing a kid with near perfect grades and test scores and great ECs and recommendations get rejected by Columbia, Georgetown and Northwestern I think you should be ready for rejection. My son is from NJ, which has an abundance of extremely bright and well-qualified kids. If we lived in Wyoming or someplace I am sure the outcome would be different. Good luck!
@MWolf He showed me his transcript the other day. Exeter does a GPA out of 11 and my brother’s was about a 9.99 by the time he graduated. He had a lot of leadership positions, was a tri varsity captain, and also was involved in a lot of social justice. We are a minority and second-generation, immigrants. In terms of legacy, I’ve had cousins (if it counts) go to these schools along with my brothers.
Maybe…maybe not. It’s NOT a competition. Just because you CAN get into one of these schools, doesn’t mean you should. Here’s a twist you might not like. If a parent or two gets laid-off, it’s going to make things unaffordable VERY quickly, especially with two other siblings going to expensive schools. If I were you, I would continue to get top grades and apply to as many full ride scholarships as I can.
@johnwick3 Captain of the fencing team, tutor and mentor to underprivileged kids, chamber orchestra, Model UN, National Honor Society, summer job counselor at a chess camp, National Merit commended student but not Finalist
A note above said that it will be harder to get into elite colleges in coming years compared to prior years. That remains to be seen. As far as private elites go, I think it will likely get easier. The entire higher education industry IS and WILL BE in upheaval for years to come. COVID will expose problems that existed previously, particularly regarding affordability, and will create new problems, all of which cannot be predicted. However, I will go out on a limb and suggest that it may be easier to get into many elite universities (non HYPMS) and many elite liberal arts institutions than it has been in recent years. This was coming anyway owing to a known demographic decrease in the number of college students applying in coming years in certain parts of the country, including the northeast. Schools are already dropping many forms of testing requirements in order to reduce barriers, and not just for lower socio-economic reasons… they want to reduce barriers to everyone because they fear a decrease in applications, yield and paying seats in classrooms. Many families will target state educational opportunities (a process that has been underway for years) assuming (often correctly) that state schools will be less expensive that private elites. In any event, I don’t think it will get harder for students to get admitted into elite private institutions and will likely become easier…so long as families can afford them. Many schools with decreased endowments may have to reduce financial aid… and if they don’t reduce their FA, there will be many, many more qualifying for said aid with parents out of work and savings diminished. I do think it will get harder to get into flagship state universities and I fear that FA may decrease at those schools as well. I also think the the OP has a great chance to get into one of these.
With a GPA that high, and those ECs, AND a minority, I can see him being accepted to that list of schools. Cousins are not primary legacies, but can give a bit of a boost. Some colleges consider a sibling to be a legacy, so you can check that for WashU (MIT does not consider legacies at all).
If you are an underrepresented minority, your acceptance rates will be higher to some of these colleges.
I still think that you should look for colleges at which you will find an atmosphere in which you feel more comfortable. In any case, I think that you should work hard during your Junior year, and see where you are standing next summer, by way of GPA and SAT/ACT scores.
You should also sit down and really think what you want from college, and what would make you happy in college. What sort of things do you like doing? What sort of classes do you like (both topic and how they are taught)? What sort of people are “your people”?
Your college goal should not be “admission to a prestigious college”. It should be “getting the most out of college”. When you want to get to the airport, do you care whether the Lyft is a Porche or a Toyota? You want the ride to be safe, comfortable, and get you to the airport on time. The point of college is to get you to where you want to be after college. So you need to find which college will get you where you need to be, academically, professionally, socially, emotionally, and financially. Those are the things that you should consider, not the Brand Name of the college.