<p>
This is what I was imagining would be the "leveler" in terms of whom one socializes with. If you're all on the school newspaper, or all on the team, .... seems to me that would trump the economic circumstances.</p>
<p>But I don't have any first-hand knowledge that this is how it would work.</p>
<p>Dstark, Why do you think that is? My husband and I have speculated that maybe it's a male-female thing.</p>
<p>My daughter is a more open person. She just assumes she will like everybody and everybody will like her (usually the case). She takes more chances.</p>
<p>My daughter is also very liberal and my son is conservative (He is similar to the Michael J. Fox character in Family Ties).</p>
<p>What's your speculation besides the male-female thing? Or are your kids' personality traits similar to mine?</p>
<p>Gosh Dstark, you didn't tell me that we have the same children. </p>
<p>The word I would use to describe my daughter is empathetic - she doesn't see what other people are like, she feels it. My son, well, let's just say his concern for others doesn't usually extend past his own personal space. She's also very liberal, he leans toward conservative. He likes "things" and is impressed by wealth. Her goal in life is to be either a teacher or a social worker. His goal in life is to be Bill Gates. :)</p>
<p>Carolyn, Nice.</p>
<p>Throughout her schooling, my daughter's group of friends have always looked a little like a United Nations gathering. She is genuinley interested in and comfortable with people who are different from herself. At college (Brown), her friends included those from very different economic and well as cultural backgrounds . I think that one of the things which drew her to this school was its diversity. In fact, she actually did sociology research at Brown the summer before senior year in high school on adolescent friendship across racial lines.</p>
<p>Dstark,
Yeah, I figure he'll fund my retirement but she'll take care of me. :)</p>
<p>Some years ago, Berkeley did a study to see how much students mingled with kids from other races--not the same thing, I know, but somewhat analogous. It found that the two groups that had friends from all different races were athletes and musicians. In questionnaires designed to see how much you stereotyped those of other races, these two groups did it FAR less than most Berkeley students. </p>
<p>I think shared ECs, especially ECs which involve different income and racial groups, help. I also think schools with some sort of residential college system mix more than kids at schools with lots of Greek life and that students at schools which require you to live on-campus mix more than those at which many students live off-campus in private housing. I think students at schools where there is no extra charge for sporting events, movies, concerts, plays, etc. (Swat is great at this) mix more than they do at schools where going to see a concert or play or sporting event costs--even it's something in the range of $5-10.</p>
<p>My daughter goes to a very small private Christian college. She has friends from all over the country, different economic groups and mostly theatre majors. Most of them are there on full or partial merit scholarships. So, smart theatre kids. She's an ed major but is on a comedy improv team and that's where they all hooked up. Parents that have stuff is convienent, especially if there's a vacation home, but I think she and her friends know that it doesn't define them. I guess that comes later. </p>
<p>My rising senior HS son has friends that are bandos. That's pretty much the only criteria.</p>
<p>I attend a small Catholic single-sex high school. The school itself is not rich, being very middle class (definitely not Miss Porter's). But, what I love about my school is the diversity and integration it has. Students are of all different racial backgrounds representing varied social classes (although most are lower/middle-middle class). Everyone makes friends with everyone else. As a black female, I have good friends who are Polish, Cape Verdean, Indian, Trinidadian, Asian, Nigerian, etc. </p>
<p>The diversity reminds me of my neighborhood. It's not utopian suburbia but a decent working middle class area near the good side of my city. The residents are of different ethnicities, but they are friendly to each other. I see neighborhood kids playing together. When my mother and I drive onto our street, the neighbors nearly always wave a hand at us. </p>
<p>I hope to attend a college which has as much diversity and integration that my high school and neighborhood have.</p>
<p>Williams has its fair share of rich and super-rich students, but from my son's experience nobody pays much attention to social class. Although there are undoubtedly some who are not shy about revealing their family's income, for the most part flaunting wealth is just not done. Without doubt he has made and continues to make friends from both sides of the economic scale and I see no reason why he wouldn't remain friends post Williams.</p>
<p>The rural aspect of the campus is also a great leveler. There is simply not much to conspicuously consume: no expensive shops (re jmmom, no Jimmy Choo :)), no elite clubs, no fancy restaurants. Every one eats and plays at the same places. Friendships are formed in the freshman entries groups, in sports groups, in arts groups -- which cross social and ethnic lines. </p>
<p>Having grown up overseas, my son doesn't pick up on many of the old-money "clues" like prep school names and vacation destinations. He was shocked when during a New York field trip he visited the home of "a regular girl" whom he had known for some time and discovered that her vestibule was the size of our family apartment when we lived in Manhattan! (I suggested that he propose immediately.)</p>
<p>Same situation for exposure to the other end of the spectrum. Maybe there are hints, like dining hall jobs, but since all campus activities are free, the insular community camouflages family background. In planning holiday excursions, the kids always price to the lowest common denominator so everyone can join.</p>
<p>Williams rwenty odd years ago was a place I made friends for life of people from all backgrounds. While Mini's experience was different, I will agree that there one hot confidence to go iut and do anything.</p>
<p>Dstark, are you really going to send Michael J. Fox's alter ego to a public school? Will he relate?</p>
<p>Didn't Michael J. Fox's character go to a public high school? I can't remember. What college did he go to?</p>
<p>DD- public school, lots of economic & racial diversity, 75% well to do friends, 25% middle & lower economic tiers. Obviously tennis was EC and AP classes-- which skew social groups to upper economic strata.</p>
<p>DS- private school, very wealthy and white; 75% friends middle & lower economic backgrounds. Hates his school because it is "elitist."</p>
<p>These kids keep you guessing!</p>
<p>70's private HS/University versus '04 private hs/University:</p>
<p>Better racial integration in '04, more true color-blindness. Language barriers seemed worse in the 70's. If you had a thick Venezualan or Saudi accent in the 70's, you were less likely to run with the big dogs. More global awareness now.</p>
<p>Same cross economic integration in '04 as in 70's; ie fairly good, fairly net worth blind. We had girl in our architecture class that came and went from uni on her family's Lear jet. S1 has any number of hugely wealthy friends--and a few on ROTC scholarships. However, Eurotrash wealth still seems to keep to itself--as they did in 70's.</p>
<p>Even though I had much less money than many classmates, I never felt less worthy. Not at all. As I imagined, my lifestyle caught up with many of my wealthier college mates--but not all! Some are now worth hundreds and hundreds of millions, more millions than I can count. And I can't see a Lear jet in my future. My sister might get one one day. That's my fantasy. ;)</p>
<p>As for connections, the answer is YES. The connections are vast and HUGELY valuable in the upper levels of American professional/academic life. Can you get to those upper levels without private school? Yes of course. It is easier if you have a few dozen private school connections though.</p>
<p>Honestly, the connections we made through sending our kids to private school were very valuable to our practice--as valuable as the ones we made in private hs/university.</p>
<p>I went to a small, private liberal arts college in Upstate New York for a time. I had friends from virtually every racial/socio-economic background you can name, and I learned a great deal about people during that time (late 70's). One of the most interesting things I learned was the difference between "old money" and "new money". By and large, I much preferred the company of the old money types that I met. Often, you would never guess that the "old monied" had extreme wealth at their disposal, because they were very understated in their lifestyle. Their family had always "had means", world without end, amen. It was just the shape of the river, and not worthy of much fanfare. Interestingly enough, even though they were from some of the most wealthy and powerful families in America, they almost never condescended to persons below their social standing. Their manners were impecable, and they were usually very poised and understated in social settings. I admired these traits, and thought that if I were ever to accumulate great wealth, I would do my best to follow this example. </p>
<p>On the other hand, I met more than a few members of the nouveaux riche who seemed entirely too impressed with their families' wealth, and virtually demanded that you demonstrate commensurate awe. Some of the most obnoxious people I ever met were from families whose wealth was recently aquired.</p>
<p>"A great public school education isn't good enough for these people. They have to have an exclusive education."</p>
<p>We have probably the best public school system in our state, and I am a public school teacher. However, it is important to know that sometimes there are circumstances where children need more than the "excellent" public system can offer. Our public system is just great if you're bright and have no learning disabilities. However, my dyslexic D was falling through the cracks. We placed her in private school with a special dyslexic program, where she has blossomed.</p>
<p>People hang out with whomever they care to, and whomever they feel comfortable with.</p>
<p>Someone prowling around trying to hang out with students with "connections" probably would be justifiably rejected. Someone looking to hang out with students with similar interests, would probably be accepted by students of all income levels.</p>
<p>Meanwhile, when it comes to future "connections," in 10-20 years, the students who went to college from impoverished, uneducated families, may be so successful in their fields that when it comes to having connections, those may be the people to know. In fact, they may have risen higher than the students who came with silver spoons.</p>
<p>Adding that when it comes to connections, my experience with going to an Ivy has been that a much high proportion of my classmates tended to have attained what's traditionally viewed as success (CEOs of companies, professors at major colleges, politicians at the state and national level, published authors, deans of university departments, etc.) than I see reflected in the alumni magazines of less competitive colleges.</p>
<p>My classmates include a former head of state, a former lieutenant governnor, one of the top academics in the philosophy field, a director of admissions at a top 10 college, a head of a foundation, a head of a media company, a well known TV personality, a well known anthropologist, a former US soccer star, a well known comedian, a well known political columnist, a former ambassador, a former top level government official, a lawyer who had a major case that was in the news for more than a decade -- and those are just the people who immediately come to mind.</p>
<p>Several of these people are household names. Some came from well connected families, many did not.</p>
<p>One doesn't have to hang out with the wealthy in college to have future connections. Many people do very well in their fields. Even the ones whom alum might consider having ordinary jobs tend to be well respected and well connected in their communities.</p>
<p>I hate to be the downer, but I see socioeconomic stratification all the time at Harvard. I'm not especially proud to admit this, but the bulk of my friends come from a very similar background as me (white, upper-crust suburb of major city who, despite top-notch public schools, still attended a private). Then there is a smaller group of SUPER-wealthy kids from the Upper East Side or backcountry Greenwich estates with second-, third- and fourth-homes in the Hamptons, Bermuda or Monte Carlo.</p>
<p>Anyway, in my experience, these types of people stick to their own kind. At Harvard, it is the upper- and upper-middle class kids who join the finals clubs (there are some exceptions to this), enjoy meals out at the local French bistro or raw bar and have limos pick them up for the ride to the airport. </p>
<p>There is usually very little animosity between the social classes. Most criticism of the finals clubs stems from them being single-sex institutions, not elitest ones. But perhaps this is because the different "castes" (to use an excessive term) are perfectly content to ignore one another's existence.</p>