<p>Ok… now I have to go figure out who Dermot Mulroney is, and hope D experiences LOTS of college rejection! :)</p>
<p>edit: ok, yes, he IS hot.</p>
<p>I agree with several others that luck is a big factor in this biz as to who will be successful. That said, talent is required. Those who make it are not necessarily the best or most talented as luck plays a part in it. However, in my observations, many of the kids in my D’s college program who played lead roles are the ones I am seeing who are making it professionally. But there are those who did play leads who are not yet successful and there are some who never played leads who are successful. But I think that a lot of the ones who are doing well professionally are the ones who stood out in school too.</p>
<p>They do a very funny bit on Saturday Night Live about a game show called “Which is it? Dermot Mulroney or Dylan McDermott”. It is hysterical!</p>
<p>“I wonder if we a overlooking a factor … let’s call it the “rejection factor”. Is it possible that a professor, director or auditor underestimated the potential of a student, and that very “rejection” made the student work that much harder to prove them wrong?”</p>
<p>This happened to my son this year, and he has many wonderful choices right now.</p>
<p>I was friends with a girl in HS that never had the lead in any HS production. She went to a NYC college, but not a very competitive one and got into the theater department. She never had a lead roll in college and sometimes not even a speaking part. Oh, by the way, when she went off to college she said she was going to work in Soap Operas after graduate. Ok… Interesting goal but whatever floats your boat!</p>
<p>Five years later I get a phone call from another friend that says turn on NBC. One of the main characters was this girl from high school!</p>
<p>A lot of ‘making it’ are two huge qualities that are not really tested in college: perseverence despite all obstacles, and marketing/professionalism/forming connections. </p>
<p>If you want to make it as an artist (theatre, film, art, writing, music), you MUST have these qualities. Many students are not tested until they graduate and go to the ‘real world’ where they suddenly face tons of rejections… It’s very very difficult to continue to go on after a year, two years of being told “No.” YOu start to doubt yourself, you lose energy, confidence. Some of the kids who were ‘stars’ in college were never tested like that–they were stars in high school, stars in college, and then suddenly they aren’t cast. </p>
<p>I think particularly of a very talented young man who graduated from a top program after having always gotten leads. Well, the kid is something like 6’4" and 250 lbs. Beautiful voice and strong acting, but just how many MT roles are there for a 22 year old who is competing with leads who are in their 30s? He failed to market himself properly, and instead went to NYC, had his parents pay part for his apartment–and now four years later, he has been in about three shows total, none B’way, and is ‘thinking of going back to school’. </p>
<p>This is just one example of failure to properly market yourself, to know your type–with his body type and youth, he should have been counseled to avoid MT in NYC. But maybe he was, and ignored it, who knows. But this is one of the reasons it’s difficult to impossible to predict who will ‘make it’–the qualities you need to be a successful BFA student (basically, talent and physical type for shows) are only a fraction of the skills you need to make it in the ‘real world’. Plus the real world is far more competitive.</p>
<p>I once went to see Isaac Asimov, the famous science fiction writer, give a talk. An audience member asked him what advice he had for people who wanted to be writers and he put his hands about a foot and a half apart, and said, “Have skin THIS thick.”</p>
<p>THat devotion and persistence is true of all art. Even as you ALSO have to be highly sensitive!</p>
<p>Connections…what a well written and thought out response and one that I could not agree with more. My son’s audition coach always says it takes “10 % talent and 90% ambition and perseverance” with luck and timing fitting in there as well! I think marketing is very important as well.
I am sure there are tons of stories out there of the MT student who flies under the radar all through school and finds a successful career in the business and many who are slated to be the “stars of tomorrow” and never make it beyond some roles in regional theater (I have seen that). It is all very interesting.</p>
<p>Connections, that’s a great post and I think it is really true. My kid is out of college now for almost four years and I think talent is only one thing you need and even if you have that, you might not “make it.” It certainly does take drive, initiative and perseverance. The whole networking thing and marketing oneself matters. </p>
<p>I see these attributes as quite significant in my D’s young professional life so far. She doesn’t wait to be cast in something while doing something else. She creates opportunities to perform. She doesn’t even audition that much as she is so busy with work in this field. Also, she markets herself. I also observe that the networking has been a huge factor and she has some major names in the industry who now are contacting her and I don’t know how they all know of her but one person tells another and so on. As she did attend college in NYC, she did have a jumpstart on networking. She is so busy with work in several aspects of the field, that her life is very full and it is hard to take on anything else. She is juggling several careers (all in theater and music) at one time. But she is young and seems to be able to do it all but is very ambitious. I think talent is a first step but that alone won’t necessarily get you work.</p>
<p>A healthy dose of realism, along with the thick skin, is necessary to continue in this career. My kids accuse me of being the most “realistic” mom in the business. 
Even though my S has been performing professionally since a very young age, we tried to be realistic about his career as an adult, which to us was more important than a childhood career. We nixed many opportunities that would have typecast him into a certain genre - yes some kids have been able to break out of the “insert Mouse here” mold, we know many more kids who haven’t. Now, he still looks very, very young, with an amazing bass-baritone voice. His agent and casting agents have been very honest with him that he will probably not be employable in MT until his 30s or 40s. Fortunately, he has other interests and possibilities. One door closes, and another opens. </p>
<p>Our D, while a strong performer, has never had quite the “starpower” of her younger brother. She went into college with clear eyes, and has found her niche. She has realized that she will never be on Broadway and is happy with that. She has many, many realistic possibilities of pursuing her love of theater after graduation, many of which don’t even involve performing. It makes me so proud that my kids are developing into resourceful adults who are more interested in developing a career than being famous.</p>
<p>This is all so true - it is a marathon career, not a sprint. Sometimes these kids who are shining stars in high school and college have little dealings with rejection which is, in some ways, a disservice to them. Character actors have a longer wait, actors that look older were cast in college because of that but that won’t happen professionally so they also might have to wait. Perseverance, marketing, networking, being likeable and a team player, etc. are all as important or more important than talent.</p>
<p>So many different routes and definitions of success, there’s really no way to tell who will succeed.</p>
<p>So now that veterans have sufficiently freaked me out ;), maybe the question really isn’t whether or not schools recognize their rising stars or not but one of, what if anything does a school do to signal to their students the best course to follow? Like connections example of the 6’4" 240 lb man. Was he told hey don’t head to Broadway for MT immediately because there won’t be work for you yet? </p>
<p>I am noticing a building awareness in my own daughter about what doors may not be open for her. For example, she knows that the highly trained dancers are more likely to find ensemble work than she would. But what then does that mean in terms of what she should do? I’m not looking for an answer I just hope over the remaining part of her 4 years, somebody tells her. Great info above. Thanks!</p>
<p>halflokum, I don’t have the answer to that but I think as the kids get more involved, they come to realize their type and their strengths and what they are right for and what they are not. I think my D has done that. While she grew up taking lots of dance, she is highly unlikely to be cast as a chorus/dancer member. She is 5’3" and is not a top dancer type. She doesn’t attend any ensemble type open calls. Also, while she can sing legit, her strength lies more in the contemporary rock/pop style musicals. She won’t be playing the ingenue. And so on. Sometimes if I see an audition notice and forward it to her, she’ll come back with, “I’ll never be cast in that as I am not right for it and so I won’t bother auditioning.” At the same time, she is not waiting for work to come to her and creates her own opportunities to perform and so she performs a lot.</p>
<p>So many great comments and insights! </p>
<p>It would be terrific if agents handled the hustling for work and figuring out which roles one is suited to, but from what I understand that is virtually never the way it works so @connections is very right about those skills being critical but often overlooked in college.</p>
<p>Like @halflokum, I’ve often wished someone could tell kids where they are apt to fit into professional theatre, if at all, but there are SO many examples of actors who were told by influential people that they had no future, yet then went on to great success. And probably MANY more who were assured success but never found it.</p>
<p>It’s complicated, so it’s a good thing they love it so much!</p>
<p>As soozievt says - the kids figure it out through their 4 years of college and summer work. Although I must say, my daughter is starting to become more of an ingenue than she would like! Through her four years of school she’s become quite beautiful, something she was not in high school. She does prefer the secondary and character parts but now has another avenue open to her. I also get the response from my daughter that soozievt gets - “Ma, I’m not right for this role.” </p>
<p>Not sure what you’re saying momcares - agents do know what parts work for which of their talent, that’s part of what makes cds work with certain agents - their knowledge of what type each role needs.</p>
<p>halfokum - you’re daughter may not be a “dancer who sings” but rather a “singer who dances,” both are cast using those words. My daughter has done some shows where she would never be considered the former but has done the latter.</p>
<p>I know it’s hard to believe, but your kids will (should) know much more about this business and how they fit in it than you by the time they graduate.</p>
<p>She is absolutely more of a singer who dances. Technically an actor who sings and dances in that order. I can tell from what she is already learning, she’s on the path to knowing which direction to take. It’s not something I’m really going to fret over because no way will I ever know more about this than she does. Thanks!</p>
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<p>D has known more about the MT business than I have since Middle School, since I was a straight actor. I don’t think MT BFAs existed at all when I went to school. I wouldn’t even characterize myself as her armchair quarterback, but I’m interested in the professions the kids are pursuing.</p>
<p>I know that when my D’s school brings in agents for their master classes, these questions are addressed. My D has been told by pretty much every professional who has come in the same things about her type and to some degree about how they feel she might do out in the “real” world. It’s extremely helpful. And the faculty definitely work on this.</p>
<p>We all now have a year-and-a-half of added insight into this question, for what it’s worth. I don’t know what most recent grads are doing, but I think the three from D’s school who went pretty much straight to Broadway were all quite well cast in college, and were also relatively well-connected. I’ve realized that some schools have performers who are seldom seen in campus shows as they work professionally off campus. I’ve also seen that some recent grads continue to work professionally with a favorite professor for several years after graduation. I wish her school did a better job of updating alumni info so the curious among us could see who is working where, but I suppose it’s good that the staff have more important things to do. 
D’s friends from other schools who have landed great work post-graduation are so far also unsurprising, but I’m sure she knows many others who are equally talented but haven’t yet gotten their “big break”.</p>
<p>Thanks for re-opening this thread- really interesting stuff. To me- it really ties to the recent “performing at CMU” thread (about the fact that you can’t til junior year etc…) Varying opinions, but certainly gives one stuff to ponder. </p>
<p>I’m with you on wishing schools update alumni info more often. I keep stumbling upon Otterbein grads. This Monday one is on Dancing with the Stars and the other is in a new TV series Gotham. The Gotham casting was pretty well recognized, though I saw a Tweet about it. Corse…I may not be looking in the right place either…</p>