<p>Interesting momfirst3. Your son’s class was flipflopped with my sons. I wonder if the difference is in location of our kids’ high schools. I’ve never figured out if location matters. I’ve thought that maybe UCLA takes more socal kids while Cal takes more norcal. But who really knows the minds of Admissions depts. :/</p>
<p>This was my youngest child and if there is one thing I have learned, it’s that there really is no rhyme or reason to admissions. It’s nuts. My kids attended a large public high school (3000+) in South Orange County. I don’t know how ranking is viewed but those accepted to Cal were all ranked in the top 20 of the class (778 students). The high school only offered AP classes. My son was Class Rank 1 and a National AP Scholar. What I did notice is that all those accepted to Cal had taken multiple AP classes, scored very well on their standardized tests, and had GPA’s over 4.0. Those accepted to UCLA had strong academics but seemed to have stronger EC’s. Those accepted to both, and there weren’t many, had all of the above. Son was a highly ranked athlete. It sure is interesting how it all shakes out. In the end, most are very happy where they end up. Best of luck to you with your kids. The stress is almost over!</p>
<p>By the way, these are both excellent universities and getting into one is an accomplishment in which to be proud. Congratulations to everyone accepted whether a Bruin or a Bear. :-)</p>
<p>I received a UCLA engineering likely letter a few days ago so I believe that I will be admitted to UCLA. I hope that I will be admitted to Berkeley as well, but only time will tell. :)</p>
<p>My theory is that Berkeley is more well-known on an international basis, so the students who apply to Berkeley are probably, on average, stronger students than those who apply to UCLA. That’s just MY theory! Don’t take offense or anything.</p>
<p>^The problem with your theory is that the international population makes up a very insignificant portion of both universities, under 10%.</p>
<p>^What he meant is that Cal has a better international reputation, not whether they accept international students. If I’m not mistaken, Cal is always ranked higher than UCLA in all the big rankings (ie. US New and World Report, etc.). Up until the mid 1990’s, UCLA accepted close to 50% of the applicants. It was not nearly as prestigious as Cal. It’s only been this last 10-15 years or so that students have applied to UCLA in bigger numbers. But, Cal has always been considered one of the premiere public institutions in the world. OK, I’m showing my bias since my son goes there. ;)</p>
<p>But I do agree with others here that both Cal and UCLA are equally as difficult to get into nowadays, and students should be extremely proud of themselves to receive acceptance into either university.</p>
<p>They are of very similar selectivity: the average SAT of admitted students is only 11 points apart - 1996 for Berkeley vs. 1985 for UCLA.
Let’s look at percentages accepted in each competitive range:
---------------------- UCB – UCLA
1800-2100, 3.8-4.0 W: 11.8 – 09.4
2100-2400, 3.8-4.0 W: 27.8 – 22.4
1800-2100, 4.0-4.2 W: 37.2 – 31.2
2100-2400, 4.0-4.2 W: 66.0 – 63.5
1800-2100, 4.2+ W—: 75.6 – 70.8
2100-2400, 4.2+ W—: 91.4 – 92.5
UCLA is actually slightly harder for all ranges except the very highest.</p>
<p>Most of the difference comes AFTER you get in, from self-selection and yield - for enrolled students, Berkeley average SAT is 1949, while UCLA is 1894, 55 points apart. The yield in that top 2100+, 4.2+ group is 29.4% for Berkeley and only 19.7% for UCLA.</p>
<p>^This guy has hit the nail in the head.</p>
<p>UCLA is NOT less selective than Berkeley nor is its applicant pool any weaker. It’s yield tends to be worse.</p>
<p>If you are interested in how Berkeley (and I would imagine UCLA) makes there admissions decisions I found a link to this study on the Berkeley site a while back. The link takes you to the press release and then at the bottom of the press release is a link to the actual study. It is quite lengthy but also quite interesting. Towards the end is where they detail how they go through the applications. I found the part about giving points for various EC’s particularly interesting. [05.16.2005</a> - UC Berkeley releases new report on freshman admissions](<a href=“http://berkeley.edu/news/media/releases/2005/05/16_hout.shtml]05.16.2005”>05.16.2005 - UC Berkeley releases new report on freshman admissions)</p>
<p>tx5, Thanks for this link. Read the complete report link at the bottom of article. Interesting that the admit rate at UCB for Engineering majors was 20% compared to 38% for Chemistry majors.</p>
<p>^^ I believe it’s even lower for Undeclared Engineering and EECS.</p>
<p>I certainly hope that admission to UCLA means admission to Berkeley…also, is Undeclared engineering at UCLA as hard to get into as undeclared engineering at Berkeley?</p>
<p>Berkeley and UCLA attract different demographics. They have very different atmospheres, different architecture, somewhat different academic strengths, and very different students. For an example (this is just one of many examples!), if you look at the student bodies, Berkeley has more Indian students and UCLA has more Asian. Berkeley is also known to be very liberal and really has the Bay Area vibe, while UCLA has a more “Cali/laid-back/soCal” whatever you out-of-state people call the feeling of being on the California coast.</p>
<p>For the record, there is, to my understanding, no truth to the rumor that adcoms meet in secret to reject based on whether you get into one or the other. It has no bearing on admissions to either one.</p>
<p>Once you start talking about admissions to top 25 or so schools, the odds of rejection are high enough that it’s quite possible to anecdotally see a trend. My bet is that those in the top quartile of applicants are usually accepted to both, but in the middle two quartiles, it’s probably more often that you’ll see people get into one or the other.</p>
<p>It should be noted that if you are good enough for one campus, the odds are in your favor for the other. There are no guarantees, though.</p>
<p>the ‘UCLA has more asians’ stereotype is completely false. UCLA actually has LESS asians than both berkeley, UCI, and i suspect UCSD as well. UCLA’s asian rate i.s in the mid to high 30s, whereas berkeley’s and UCIs are in the high 40s low 50s.</p>
<p>agree with the other statement though. Berkeley is like militantly liberal. LA is more open to people of various different clubs and beliefs (even if they aren’t liberal)</p>
<p>beyphy,</p>
<p>Oh, there’s a pretty good conservative cohort at Cal. You can definitely be a happy libertarian there.</p>
<p>I don’t know thought that the word I’d use for LA is “open.” I think “apathetic” is more like it. Angelenos in general tend to be much more apolitical than their Northern brethren.</p>
<p>My son is hard core fiscally conservative and he loves Berkeley! hahahaha… He loves the San Francisco area. As to whether or not Undeclared Engineering is as hard to get into at UCLA as it is at Cal, the answer is yes. Undeclared Engineering is always a very competitive engineering major, if not the most competitive engineering major. I asked the Dean of Engineering at Cal why this was so. I was told that they are extremely picky about the Undeclared Engineering majors because they can gain admission to any engineering major. The standard for undeclared is as tough as the most difficult engineering major. I had never thought of it that way, but it makes sense. My son got into Undeclared Engineering at Cal and UCLA. He liked both schools but went with Cal.</p>
<p>
I’ve never even heard of this stereotype. The stereotype is that Berkeley has more Asians and its true.</p>
<p>really? you’ve never heard ‘university of caucasions lost amongst asians’? combined, both make up like +70% of the students. UCLA is around 40% asian for undergrad, and but is overwhelmingly white for grad school.</p>
<p>[Urban</a> Dictionary: ucla](<a href=“http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=ucla]Urban”>Urban Dictionary: ucla)</p>
<p>even one of the tags is asian xD</p>