Do Non-Academic Extracurriculars Even Help?

Applying to College
1

<p>Hi,</p>

<p>I've been wondering about this for a while. My GPA and SAT scores are wonderful (both are perfect), but my ECs are sorely lacking. I have almost zero leadership in any of them (huge clubs, 40+ ppl). They are:</p>

<p>Science Club (2 Years) - Regionals, Wondercup Finalist
Academic Decathlon (2 Years) - Secretary
Math Club (4 Years)
Fencing (3 Years)
Tennis (4 Years)
Hospital Volunteering (150+ Hrs.)
Tech Museum (150+ Hrs.)
Editor of Newspaper (1 Year) <= Senior Course Only
Tutoring Club (3 Years) - Tutor other people in Bio, Math
Paid Tutor for Math <- Weekly
We The People
Speech and Debate (1 Year)
Youth Orchestra (Touring Europe)</p>

<p>This might sound good, but on closer inspection, is just a laundry list of very ordinary ECs and I have zero leadership in any of them. Additionally, I lack the normal Research/Internships/Shadowing Doctors that most competitive applicants have, which I hear are very important. Also, I have ZERO awards (save NMF).</p>

<p>The reason I post this is because I actually have a couple weird ECs that I do pursue more than others.</p>

<p>One would be flying model airplanes. </p>

<p>I am a member of AMA (Academy of Model Aeronautics) and participate often in my local R/C club. However, I don't really have any awards to show for it. I just participate in the demos that they give to new members. It's mainly dominated by adults that have years of experience under their belts, so the chances of any teenager winning is extremely low. (Of course the colleges won't know this). I often spend hours on the airfield during the weekends.</p>

<p>Also, dunno if it helps, but I have to build the planes from model kits myself (A task that takes months to complete and often requires arduous labor cutting and gluing all the pieces together, not to mention that the blueprint is as thick as two of my fingers). These are wood airplanes with gas engines. <= Each around 500 dollars, have two at the moment because I crashed one into a nearby helicopter :(</p>

<p>Another would probably be selling accounts on online MMORPGs. I am a trusted trader on a site with over 20 trades under my belt (each at least 100 dollars), and although I don't pursue it much anymore, gained about 2000 dollars buying low and selling high and acting as middlemans as trades. (I also gained the ability to hack almost any hotmail account haha). I don't know if I should include this because it sounds so stupid. I heard that anything that is game-related is frowned upon, and since, again, I have nothing to show for it, they would have to take my word for it, unless I actually send them the link to the gaming forum.</p>

<p>The last would probably be writing fiction novels and posting them on the internet. I write for fanfiction.net, and have several stories over 10,000 words, and one over 80,000 words,with as many as 100,000 views on them, along with several hundred reviews. However, this also comes with a major caveat. Once again, I have no proof that I have done this, short of sending them a link to my profile (Which would also lead me to my stories, which, looking back on them, are embarrassingly bad and have settings in the worlds of Harry Potter and Naruto T_T, which makes me seem like a little kid).</p>

<p>My question is: Should I even bother putting these extracurriculars on there? I have nothing to show for them, and they are not academic in the least (save my writing, but its FANfiction...cmon.) Are they impressive enough I can write an essay on one of them, even though I don't hold any awards for them? </p>

<p>Sorry if I seem like an over-obsessed fanatic, but I'm afraid that my SAT scores might only illuminate how much my extracurriculars are lacking, and I am trying to get into the top schools (Ivies). Thanks for reading this overly long post !</p>

2

<p>lol… fanfiction. I know a girl at Yale who used to write fanfic. </p>

<p>Anyhow… those other things might be good for essay topics (even the fanfic one) but won’t really help an Ivy application (except by making your list longer). Well… it’s largely too late to worry about that. </p>

<p>I hope your great scores help you out a lot though.</p>

3

<p>IMO if you put a lot of time into something, write about it. HOWEVER, write eloquently and creatively enough to put it in the best of light possible. I don’t really know what selling accounts is, but at my guess, you employ logical reasoning (through strategy) and computer skill to provide a service to others, from which you make a profit. Its a business right? Remember: Comp Sci is a major.
Or alternatively, you use your critical thinking skills to effectively build a plane–> why you might want to do engineering.
Or alternatively, you use your creative mind to write stories enjoyed by thousands of people.</p>

<p>I’m really just pulling things out of thin air, but I’m sure you get the idea. Write so it sounds good, and write about what you love.</p>

4

<p>I think you have a great chance at getting into at least one of the ivy leagues, if you have the grades and SAT/ACT for it. I’m assuming you’re top 10% and above 2000 on the SAT. Now I read alot of threads that claim that extracurriculars are more important than grades. This is a straight up lie. You’re doing great. If your grades were a cake, it’d be delicious. What your extracurriclars merely do is put sprinkles onto your already delicious cake to make it even better.</p>

<p>I think the confusion about the importance of grades vs extracurriculars stem from things you hear from the councillors, fellow peers and forums. The people that say grades aren’t important and extracurriculars are essentially are saying it’s ok to have a poo-like cake as long as you put delicious sprinkles and toppings on it. If you want proof, try search college confidential reapplying to medical school. Here you’ll see people doing post-bacs, masters programs, and getting job experience while still getting rejected from medical school because of their bad grades. Sprinkles can’t save those cakes even if you put nutella frosting on it.</p>

<p>To me, it sounds like your academic cake would be delicious with air plane decore.</p>

5

<p>Fencing—can actually be a hook.
Tennis–4 yrs. shows commitment
AMA/flying model airplanes—unique</p>

<p>Your EC’s are fine. Fencing and AMA will help your application stand out among the applications with the more typical EC’s. </p>

<p>If the rest of your application is strong (top 10%, strong rigor, and solid GPA), you’re going to have an excellent outcome during this application cycle. Don’t obsess about the Ivy’s.
There are hundreds of excellent colleges who would love to have you in their upcoming freshman class. The chances of acceptance into an Ivy is a crapshoot. Try for it, but spend more time focusing on solid match and safety schools.</p>

<p>Good luck.</p>

6

<p>I have a 3.9 U/W (dangit drawing! I never should haven taken you) and a 4.5 UC GPA, 10 APs, and a 2400, so I assume I’m fine for the academics. Thanks for the advice!</p>

<p>BTW: Dohenry - I loved your cake metaphor so much!</p>

7

<p>At a lot of the top tier colleges, essays are REALLY important to distinguish all the 4.0/2400 applicants. Write an awesome essay about one of your more unique ECs and I think that will help.</p>

8

<p>@dohenry: as appealing as your theory sounds, I disagree completely. We’re talking about top tier schools here. Most of the applicants have great grades: colleges simply use grades as an indicator of how well a student will do in their academic environment. What really gets you in is extracurriculars. So when people say that extracurrics are the factors for admission in top tier colleges, they’re right. You are already assumed to have top grades; EC’s make the difference. A person with a 4.5 weighted does not have much of an advantage in terms of grades as someone with a 4.4 weighted. Colleges are looking to “fill up their spots” with students of certain skills (extracurriculars), all of whom are academically top-tier. Sure, in graduate schools grades are essentially the main factor, but this aint graduate school.</p>

<p>That said, gensis you have as good of a chance as anyone else and have some interesting things to write about.</p>

9

<p>Yes, it is true that extracurriculars are a good tool for distinguishing between high gpa students. However, and this is extremely important.</p>

<p>There will be people reading this thread and coming out thinking that they can go to Harvard with a 3.0 gpa or a 3.4 gpa. I’m sorry, but it’s high unlikely unless you are an olympic athlete, a movie star, or the president’s daughter. Extracurriculars will not save these gpa’s. Anyone who has graduated from high school will be able to vouch for me when I say that most students in high school that pack their applications with CSF,NHS,Track, and Cross Country while having a 3.5 gpa will not make it to UCSD let alone an Ivy League. I have known plenty of people with this mindest that extracurriculars are more important that gpa. They are not. GPA indicates several things (although not very accurately but still significantly) such as work ethic, intelligence, and effort. Extracurricular merely display leadership and outside skills. Work ethic is by the most important thing in college and to have a low gpa is already a bold indicator that the applicant is not ready to attend. I go to berkeley and I can tell you first hand that those with weak work ethics went from pre-med all the way down to pre-nursing because their gpa’s were so bad that they couldn’t even make the threshhold gpa for medical school because they carried the belief that extracurriculars are more important. </p>

<p>The real truth is the majority of students are not 4.0 gpa students so the first goal is to distinguish from them and the only way to do that is to use AP courses to get 4.4 or 4.5 gpa. Now once that is done, extracurriculars are the next tool to use to distinguish an application. </p>

<p>Now the cake theory is still true with respect to gpa. If to cakes, applications, are equally delicious then they shall be judged upon factors such as looks, presentation, and appeal. And this is the role of extracurriculars.</p>

<p>In conclusion, yes, the applicant in this thread does have a more than amazing gpa and SAT. Because of this, she has made it past the first round (which few can even do). The second round is extracurriculars, which she has alot of so she’ll most likely get into a high rank school.</p>

10

<p>I want to believe in cake so badly because my ec’s are nothing special and my gpa is great.
besides too many toppings are gross.</p>