<p>One warning about going to law school part time. A lot of part time law students have no other job. That’s especially true at schools like Fordham and Georgetown. </p>
<p>My kid has a good friend who began Fordham in the night school. Did not work at the same time. Studied really, really hard first year. Made law review. Went to school the summer after 1L year. Transferred to day division at beginning of second year. Thus ended up graduating in three years from entrance date. Was a regular 2L on law review when interviewing (a couple of years ago) for a summer associate position. Got one and now is an associate at a large law firm. I actually doubt that when the friend was interviewed most firms realized she started in the night school. </p>
<p>From what my kid says, the friend was not the only person going to Fordham nights who had no day job. </p>
<p>In one sense the story is an inspiring one. Friend began school going part time and ended up getting a big firm job. In another sense, though, it’s a cautionary tale. If you do go to law school at night, you may be competing with classmates who have no other obligations.</p>
<p>Being a successful solo practitioner can often be more about who you know. The key is building and maintaining a client base. Most people searching for an attorney will ask friends and colleagues for recommendations or see a news article about a favorable verdict and contact the attorney involved. They rarely shop by credentials. If you know for sure that you want to hang a shingle, then the choice of law school is not as important. Because of start up time and the funds needed to establish a practice, the money spent on the degree is important so choose the best value.</p>
<p>I agree with all of this. I guess the point I was trying to make was that the ridiculous rise in law school tuitions is particularly bad for people who simply want to become solo practitioners.</p>
<p>lskinner - you are right. The vast majority of solo practitioners that I know went out on their own after being with firm or firms for several years. They put away money and built relationships first. There are others who did so after giving up on finding a firm or company that they liked. I’m sure there are plenty who enter law school with the desire of becoming a solo practitioner. I just don’t know many.</p>
<p>Sorry, but I don’t agree. I know a number of kids who are getting 6 figure salaries coming from non top 14 law schools. My best friend’s d has worked 2 years for a judge after law school and will working for a top firm in January, making a terrific salary. She did not go top 14. Also, if you are staying in a city, doing well in a local law school can be beneficial. I think it is difficult getting work outside of your law school locale if the school is unknown and that’s when top 14 or top 10 or top 25, who knows where the cut is exactly, can make a difference.</p>
<p>Of course, there are graduates of law schools outside of the T14 who obtain 6 figure salaries after graduation. However, the important question is what are the chances of doing so? It certainly sounds like your friend’s daughter has done okay for herself, but where does that leave the tens of thousands of other aspiring attorneys who are attending law schools outside of the T14?</p>
<p>I can tell you for a fact that many of the BIGLAW firms that pay the big salaries cut back drastically on recruiting this fall. They went to fewer law schools and hired fewer students from those law schools. Which law schools didn’t make the cut? Well, many top law firms have a partner or two or three who graduated from law schools outside of the T14. Often, in the past, these law firms would hire one (and sometimes even two) tippy top students (I literally mean the top student or two in the class) from these law schools each year, particularly if the partner who graduated from that law school is active in recruiting. This year, many top paying law firms are just not sending recruiters to these law schools.</p>
<p>Sure, but that’s their choice. Those students could hold full-time jobs with which to minimize their debt. In contrast, regular full-time law students have no chance to hold simultaneous full-time jobs.</p>
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<p>Well, contrast that with going to school during the daytime, where you’re definitely competing against classmates who have no other obligations. The competition is clearly far more intense.</p>
<p>To buttress this point, I’ll go so far as to say that some firms even stopped going to some top 14 schools. Cravath was conspicuously absent from UVA this year; Milbank and Kirkland didn’t go to Cornell; none of the non-West-Coast Kirkland offices went to Boalt or Stanford. Akin Gump didn’t go to Yale. Schulte Roth withdrew from Michigan. The list is longgggggggg.</p>
<p>I think that in todays economy, a degree from a T-14 school no longer guarantees a biglaw job or $160,000 income. Law firms may be looking for more than just the degree from a top law school. </p>
<p>Flowerhead- you said that firms are looking for personalities too. I absolutely agree with that concept. They may also be looking for attorneys who have work experience, the background and contacts within an industry and can add additional value to the firm due to their background.
As an example-To me it’s a no brainer that the congressional staffer who goes to Georgetown, GW or even George Mason P/T and who has the contacts on Capitol Hill brings much more to the table than a T-6 law grad with no significant work experience. </p>
<p>again- for the lucky few who did find significant employment with their BA degree, it may be worth pursuing a part time JD degree. Personally, I think having solid experience, contacts within an industry and gaining wisdom from real life experiences will only help in obtaining employment with a JD degree.<br>
You need more than just the T-14 degree to do well in this economy.</p>
<p>Here’s the real rub – today, even if you go to a T14 law school and get a job at a big NYC or Chicago or LA or DC firm that still pays its newly minted associates $160,000 per year to start (not surprisingly, the number of firms that still pay that amount is decreasing steadily), you will likely not get to start your job the autumn after you graduate from law school in the spring and take the bar exam in the autumn. Instead, at most of these top law firms, you will now have to wait at least one to two years<a href=“yes,%20I%20said%20years”>/U</a> before they will allow you in the door to start making that salary. </p>
<p>A handful of firms have offered their deferred associate attorneys stipends during part or all of the period of the deferral, but the stipends are not close to the expected payday that a new associate attorney could expect. In fact, some firms will only pay the stipend if you take public interest work during the deferral period (easier said than done, since public interest organizations (a) are quite coompetitive when it comes to finding jobs there, (b) may prefer to hire young attorneys who plan to stay for a longer period than a deferred associate and/or who have a genuine passion for the organization and (c) do not necessarily have the resources to hire a slew of deferred attorneys (not enough desks, computers, space, etc.)). </p>
<p>It is not easy out there, and until the economy begins to improve (and despite the smoke that the government seems to be blowing around, the economy is NOT actually improving for any of my clients), it will not get any easier.</p>
<p>This point is less relevant to prospective law students, and the classes of 2011 and 2011, than it is to current 3Ls and students who just graduated. Part of the reduced hiring we saw at this year’s EIW was not just the result of firm’s trimming back, at least we hope; another reason is that they truly want to provide offers to everyone, and to let everyone start on time. Weil Gotshal is going to have a significantly smaller class this summer, but I’ve heard that this intention is based on their wanting the class of 2011 to be at the firm in the fall of their graduation year.</p>
<p>My firm’s summer class will be significantly smaller as well (and, amazingly, none of our associates have been deferred yet); again, firm’s are really playing it safe in this recession. While this might seem self-aggrandizing, I truly belief that the class of 2011 who managed to get BigLaw jobs are truly elite in comparison to their brethren from previous years.</p>
<p>Plus the sabbatical backlog. Some firms offered current associates a portion of their pay to go do something else for a year. When that year is up, most of those associates will also be returning. Add to that the fact that the percentage of big law firm associates leaving for in-house jobs is probably going to be depressed for a while; corporate legal departments aren’t hiring at the same rate. </p>
<p>I think it’s unrealistic to think that people entering law school now and especially current 1Ls aren’t going to be affected by this. They may not be deferred but summer associate classes will be smaller and firms won’t hesitate to withhold offers.</p>
<p>I was upset with my son when he decided (in August) to bail on law school and not take the LSAT in September. He just doesn’t think the timing is right in this economy. Now, I have to admit, I think he made the right choice. Maybe someday…</p>
<p>I never said they won’t be affected; learn to read what was claimed. Implicit in my post about shrinking classes in order to have people start on time was the notion that hiring would be tougher because of the fewer number of spots. However, in terms of jobs starting on time, I think this is a non-issue for the class of 2011 and beyond.</p>
<p>If firms really still cannot accommodate the people:
a) The firm will probably sooner revoke offers from their current incoming associates. Firms have already pretty much started to do this (and, in their eyes, it’s their way of “trading up”).
b) The firm probably has bigger problems. I’d put it on my “dissolution watch” asap.</p>