<p>Physician here- it will be your residency program that determines your eventual practice area et al. Get your undergrad education at the cheaper good quality school, do well and get into a medical school if that's still your desire. Remember the old joke- "What do they call the person who graduated last in his medical school? Doctor." Your undergrad school won't be noted anywhere, it may help determine which medical school you attend, but you will find medical students from all sorts of undergrad schools- they realize one doesn't always get to pick one's college for financial reasons. Save your money for medical school if the undergrad experience appeals to you at both schools. The vast majority of physicians will not have gone to the most elite schools (by definition) and will do a good job taking care of their patients. Don't worry, enjoy your life as it unfolds. PS-are you positive you will get the money? Don't count on it just because you are in the running, not all NMFs get money.</p>
<p>Another physician here - what is important to you today is which school will get me into medical school. What gets you into med school?
Grades, grades, grades, MCAT scores and experiences in medicine. Some students are "big fish in a small pond" type people - I was one - it worked well for me to go to a school that you probably have never heard of, do very well, then go on to med school and do well, that leads to a good residency, which is the real foundation of where and how you practice.</p>
<p>Other people thrive on competition, and do better at big state U with a full fledged pre-med program. Where I was, there were only 2-3 people in each graduating class of 1800 who had any real interest in med school or any legitimate shot. We all knew each other. The advising was essentially one on one, and the references were excellent, but you were on your own arranging what passed for shadowing or "internship" (not as big a deal back then).
In contrast, even 25+ years ago at the big state U there was a pre-med society of well over 100 members. The group brought in speakers, including reps from the state med school, to give advice about applying. It kept a list of alums who welcomed students, etc., many more resources for the student poised to take advantage of them. Research and service opportunities.</p>
<p>Pre-med classes at big state U were full of med school aspirants, and were basically weed-out courses. The classic "look at the person on your right and on your left - two of you will be gone by next spring". The pre-med classes at my school were populated by nursing students, allied health students, future high school teachers and a few, few majors. They were geared toward teaching and learning and success. Yes, you had better be at the top of all your science classes because the school did not have as good a reputation, but that was a lot easier (at least for me) in a setting with less competition.</p>
<p>Things have changed some certainly in 25+ years - but it is still important for you to get a feel for the pre-med program and experience at each UG school, and consider what seems right for you.</p>
<p>Finally, consider what your opportunities and choices will be coming from each school if you decide NOT to go to med school - what will you major in, how will that go, etc?</p>
<p>I choose just like many of the other posters - by recommendations and making sure the person went to medical school in the U.S. If I were choosing a brain surgeon, I might pay attention to their medical school a little more closely. But the family doctor? I just need to know that they are good listeners who are capable of understanding what's going on with my body and what I need. That's all.</p>
<p>I have been fortunate to have never had major surgery or other medical proceedure. If I did I would check out the doctor and would check out his cv but not necessarily his undergrad education.</p>
<p>For my family doctor I did not check anything at all. But she has always been spot on in diagnosing little things and with referrals. She could have gone to Pangoon Medical and Barber College for all I care.</p>
<p>DH and I both check. Disclaimer: We are both PhD med school faculty and also received our PhD's from medical school, well from graduate programs at prominent medical schools. Meaning we had to teach med students then, and now! So we are picky.</p>
<p>I check, but that is just to make sure that they went to certain US schools. US graduates are well trained. The rest is just "fit". Do I like him/her? I did check out my dentist more. For some reason, I am really picky about my dental care and where the dentist went to undergrad and dental school, and when they did their training.</p>
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I did check out my dentist more. For some reason, I am really picky about my dental care and where the dentist went to undergrad and dental school, and when they did their training.
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<p>As a dentist (who graduated a state flagship and Ivy dental, FWIW), I can confidently tell you that the undergrad and dental school means absolutely nothing, as long as it's in the US. The field is changing so rapidly that the courses and programs taken after dental school are far more important. That, and the desire to be your very best and to do the best for your patients.</p>
<p>I choose doctors by recommendations -- mainly from people who have been treated by them or from doctors who can tell me about the doctors' expertise (such as how many surgeries the doctors have done and what the success rate is of their surgeries). I stay with doctors based on how they treat me -- level of respect, etc.</p>
<p>I don't choose doctors by undergraduate or medical schools.</p>
<p>In the grand scheme of things, the difference in money is not that huge. You should look very closely at the differences in terms of the education you will get, and how graduates of that school do when applying to medical school. Although $40,000 is not chickenfeed by any stretch of the imagination, this is not like a decision between a full ride school and one that costs $50,000 each year.</p>
<p>I chose doctors by word-of-mouth recommendations & my personal experience with the practice.</p>
<p>What's key to me: doctors who will sit down & listen carefully to my questions (I usually have many) & provided detailed, informed answers. Also, a practice where they will not hesitate to bring you in immediately if you request (particularly in a pediatric office). I don't generally note where the doctors attended school.</p>
<p>As noted above, there's a slight difference with a specialist (vs. a GP, or pediatrician). I tend to note the med school then, but word-of-mouth & my personal experience w/the doctor trumps that.</p>
<p>The residency program is far more important in the training than the medical school- the better programs will get the best students from medical schools all over the country and give them the skills.</p>
<p>Thank you all very much for your kind inputs and opinions!
Overall, seems UG does not count but med school does! That's great outcome!
Sorry can't reply earlier because of volunteer duty and busy CC server...</p>
<p>:)</p>
<p>Don't forget that there are also fellowship programs after the residency programs, which add another component to the training.</p>
<p>Most people don't pay attention. I'm actually surprised by the number of people in this thread who say they even check US vs foreign.</p>
<p>Almost all of the literature out their about why patients like their physicians says that the important things are "bedside manner" type of skills - the doctor listens, seems like they care, understands what the patient is telling them, is empathetic, answers questions, explains things well. </p>
<p>The absolute truth of the matter is that all 125 US med schools are EXCELLENT. The difference in quality is minimal (If I had to compare it to undergrad rankings it would be like the difference between the top 25). Certainly they all have their relative strengths, but all of them produce competent physicians and you can look at how the passage rates on the USMLE licensing exams for US students vs foreign grads for the proof. >93% of US second years pass Step 1 on the first try and >99% pass it within three attempts. >94% of US fourth years pass both Step 2 Clinical Knowledge on the first try. I've not looked up the pass rates for Step 2 Clinical Skills (The test that Alex on Grey's Anatomy failed in the first season), but everything I've ever heard about US seniors who've failed it is that they just blanked while going through the exam and it usually was just a string of bad luck and very few ever fail on the second attempt.</p>
<p>One other key thing - please realize that the quality of Undergrad does not necessarily correlate with the quality of medical school. Yale is a good example, great UG, but it's medical school doesn't match it's UG reputation. Again, this is splitting hairs because of the overall excellence of medical schools in this country, but people think "Yale! It must be good" when there are a lot of other medical schools that are better.</p>
<p>"Overall, seems UG does not count but med school does! "</p>
<p>I think this is the wrong takeaway from this thread. Where you go to college for undergrad will have a big impact on you, on what you learn, how well you learn it, what your peers are like, the friendships you make, and lots more. How people choose their doctors is only a tiny part of the calculation you should be making here. While finances matter, I would urge you take much more than money into account in choosing where you go.</p>
<p>For the purposes of becoming a good physician the undergraduate school does not matter at all to the patient wanting a good physician. It does affect the ease of getting into a medical school, but all physicians accomplished that. The OP was referring to primary care physicians, not specialty/subspecialty care. Also, do not discount foreign physicians who got their degree in their own country (as opposed to US students who go out of country after failing to get into a US school) but then did US residencies and are board eligible/certified. Just be sure their English language communication skills are there. Those FMGs (now IMGs- international is the current euphamism) trained alongside the American grads, getting the same training. I would rather have an excellent foreign born/medical school graduate taking care of me than a mediocre US medical school grad.</p>
<p>Choosing an undergraduate school should involve much more than just getting into medical school. Choose the school that is the best academic and social fit for you- you can learn the material to get the grades and do well on the MCAT anywhere, but you need the best fit school to be motivated to do your best. You want the academics to be rigorous enough to not bore you and to learn as much as you can. You want your environment to suit you as a person. Also, you may not get into medical school, regardless of where you go for your undergraduate education; or you may change your mind about becoming a physician. Scrap the getting into medical school idea from your evaluation of your choices and concentrate on all the other factors important to you- the one that stands out will be the one that best prepares you for your future, regardless of what that future is. And, yes, finances do play a role in everyone's final choice. Good luck.</p>
<p>Addenda- the best physician in the world is of no use to you if he/she is in Boston and you are hundreds or thousands of miles away wanting routine or immediate care. You need a good local physician who understands the local available medical scene and can fit your care into your lifestyle. This means understanding the rural life in rural areas and city concerns in the city. Many, if not most, residents choose to practice in the area in which they train. This is good as they learn the available resources and referrals in the region, giving their patients access to the best available specialists in their area. Regardless of your medical school you can choose which part of the country to train and practice in. All physicians have access to the latest practice guidelines, continuing medical education and literature regardless of where they train or practice. After a while the abilities of the physician far outweigh those of the school they attended years ago- I would rather go to the good Podunk Medical U grad with experience than the fresh grad from Elite U.</p>
<p>When I am choosing a new doctor I look at two things: where they went to medical school and any recommendations I have from my other doctors. After that I will drop a doctor if I don't like him/her after going a couple of times. This has happened to me twice - once with an ENT specialist and once with a dermatologist. I interviewed three pediatricians before my kids were born. When I find a doctor I like I stick with him/her. I have been seeing my OBGYN, my dermatologist, and my allergist for 20 years. My dentist finally retired and now I see his daughter who took over the practice.</p>
<p>Yeah, Ricegal, I'm a big interviewer also. When I moved out of state a few years ago I went to 3 different GYNS and interviewed 4 pediatricians. Never thought I'd have to do that, but was surprised at the rushed/patronizing/non-informative care. It was worth to check around--I know have exceptionally wonderful doctors in both categories.</p>
<p>I'll be honest, I think looking at where someone went to medical school is a flawed assessment of how good a physician is. </p>
<p>1) Considering that most (>50%) med school applicants get rejected by every single school they apply to, just getting in is impressive. Of the students that do get accepted, most only get accepted to one school - so it's not like they have a choice on where to go. Rightly, most students care much more about becoming a doctor than becoming a graduate of _________ Medical School (which is a very different goal).</p>
<p>2) The difference between in-state and private school or out-of-state tuition is usually $20,000 or more. There are very few scholarships available and very few students have parents or grandparents able to pay for all the costs, so the smart decision (if one is lucky enough to have multiple acceptances) is to go to the in-state school. There's rarely a situation in which one school is worth taking out $80k more debt to attend. </p>
<p>3) As I've mentioned before, most of the general public does not the big names in medical education, and they frequently tie UG reputations to the respective medical schools, which is often erroneous. </p>
<p>4) Looking at where individuals completed their residency matters, but realize that there are a ton of community based, non-university affiliated residency programs out there. If the general public can't identify top medical schools, are they going to fully appreciate the quality variation in community based residency programs? One could very easily argue that community based programs frequently offer superior training because fewer fellows and fewer residents mean more work for each resident that is there - this can be particularly true in surgical specialties. </p>
<p>So what should you look for?
Board Certification
Recommendations from other physicians you trust
How you feel with that doctor</p>
<p>I think interviewing possible physicians is a great idea and I think that it helps the physician alot as well.</p>