<p>
Test scores often make a difference. I wouldn’t take rumors as fact. Sometimes kids have a great work ethic, but the testing isn’t as strong. Or the essays and interview don’t set the student apart.</p>
<p>The best student at one school might not be the best student at a different school. If the test scores don’t line up with the grades, admissions might decide the school isn’t as rigorous as other schools. Also, schools which do declare valedictorians might use unweighted GPA. </p>
<p>If you compared the typical private high school and the typical public high school, the top 10% at the private will be much better than the top 10% at the public. So this should be no surprise.</p>
<p>@jarjar: You lost me. Wouldn’t it be easier for the rich to use that money to buy their way in to a top college directly? Why wasting the money on a private school? It’s not like top colleges are taking commissions from private schools for admitting their graduates. I am not pretending that wealth has noting to do with elite college admission. It does and in certain cases a lot, but if for college admission purpose only it’s just not a smart and efficient way to invest in private school. You’d be better off hiring a private counselor and if you are really rich donate a building to the college directly.</p>
<p>Periwinkle -PM me. Did our kids attend the same high school? They sure sound similar. </p>
<p>The playing field is definitely not equal in these schools. In these high schools, the biggest competition for brand name colleges is how many other legacies are applying. Kids always hope senior year that there are not 5 or 6 other legacies applying cause they know they will be their biggest competition.</p>
<p>In my D’s school, there are 3 counselors for 125 kids - and they have no other duties except to do college counseling. They don’t teach or anything. The hands on process begins second semester junior year, after they have gotten the current seniors straight.</p>
<p>Coming from a decidedly different background, I am committed to giving back to other students who were more like me. I run free application/essay seminars for students to give them the one on one attention they need. I also help them navigate the college process - which for most of them does not mean anything close to the schools touted regularly here on CC. I know my child was blessed, I just want others to have similar opportunities because I know it is so much harder to be the “diamond in the rough” these days.</p>
<p>“Personally I’d think a valedictorian demands more merit than the student in the 10%.”
-Many schools stop reporting “valedictorian” or any kind of rank, bragging or not is irrelevant, this is the fact. However, rank is still determined by the college based on HS profile (they are obligated to provide that) and the student GPA (again, one can brag forever, it will not help, numbers will speak for themselves)<br>
Also, even within the same state, in-state publics are widely different what they offer to the same student and some may offer amounts that will be way way below some privates, while others may offer full tuition Merit (again, braging or not is irrelevant, but great amount of research is a good idea). So, “demands” based on stats is also irrelevant.<br>
And again, bragging or not, nobody can decide for the student who has to find a place that would match his personality and wide range of interests or face misery at a place that would be great for somebody else, including his closest friends and people with similar stats and interests.
…and I do not see anything wrong with bragging at all. That is what we live for, to brag and brag and brag again…</p>
<p>The schools also grade, um, more harshly than the US norm. So kids who would be A students elsewhere get Bs. The elite colleges which admit holistically know this. However, the GPA might put the students out of the running for some scholarships or guaranteed admission programs at some publics. </p>
<p>This is, however, not so bad for students who would otherwise have the dreaded high test scores/ragged GPA problem. The work is often harder than at their local schools, so they’re more likely to have to work rather than coast, but the colleges do know that the GPAs will not be straight As. </p>
<p>@Benley: And how much would it take to “buy” admission to a prestigious college? How much does private HS tuition cost?</p>
<p>Do the math and don’t take your audience to be simpletons.</p>
<p>^^No, I’m not taking my audience (if there’s one) to be simpletons at all. On the contrary, I’m taking them to be very sophisticated, and that’s why I’m making this argument. Paying private HS tuition is far, far from a ticket to a top college. It would take a simpleton to think otherwise.</p>
<p>Post #24: is there a typo in the last sentence? Shouldn’t it be ‘I’ and not ‘we’?</p>
<p>Purpletitan-
A quarter of a million dollars could buy a fair amount of good will at some of the less well endowed yet prestigious colleges.</p>
<p>Lawrenceville:
</p>
<p>“Post #24: is there a typo? Shouldn’t it be ‘I’ and not ‘we’?”
-No typo. Bragging and bribing will accomplish much more than punishments and negative remarks. Nagging is only good for somebody who is desparate to get rid of those around them…</p>
<p>
Yes, but more on the parents IMO. There are some prep schools that are incubators for the Ivies where some families have attended for generations. Those schools have a channel right into admissions. Other schools not so much. They haven’t “proven” themselves yet.
Not always. The gentleman’s B still exists.</p>
<p>@Erin’s Dad do you think these elite “feeder” schools have a significant advantage in admissions to top colleges?</p>
<p>
Does that mean we will hear less of the “I hate ____” posts and all the other negative stuff that is often posted about cities (NYC, for example) food items, careers, people being on the phone, , media, engineering, retirement, treadmill, etc. I typed in your name and the word “hate” and cc pulled up 22 pages of posts!! </p>
<p>"“Personally I’d think a valedictorian demands more merit than the student in the 10%.”
IMHO, he or she might or might not, depending on the individual and the high school.</p>
<p>An anecdotal experience, I know of a valedictorian from an “average” (but quite large) high school in a large state/city was struggling at a top college, while a top 10% from another school was doing much better at the same college. The reason is likely that in that city, a very high percentage of competitive students go to a “magnet-like” public school or competitive private school.</p>
<p>Some public schools need to take care of more average students - the results may be that some of their best students were either not challenged or challenged in a meaningless way (e.g., “teacher’s pet”, the supposedly most challenging classes are not taught in a challenging way - this may include AP classes occasionally.)</p>
<p>DS was graduated from a large public high school so I am not “bashing” the public high school from the “outside”. He was made very busy, but I think it is not easy to tell which one of, say, top 10’s, is better when they are in a more competitive environment in high school or in college.</p>
<p>Actually, in DS’s high school graduating class, there is a student who ranked 18 and got into harvard college. He refused to be a teacher’s pet (very rebellious actually) so a couple of teachers who had some “compatibility” problem with him intentionally “punished” him with bad grades, wishing to right his wrong attitude toward the “authority”. But all students know that he is good. (Teachers know as well but some just want to demand more respects from him.)</p>
<p>Of course, a valedictorian from an average high school “could” be very good.</p>
<p>This is just my subjective opinion.</p>
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</p>
<p>Plus, not everyone goes to grad school - I know, I know, this is CC where everyone is going to get their PhD in Medieval Studies, but some kids actually do stop with a BS or a BA. My daughter the CPA is one of them!</p>
<p>"Still it’s somewhat strange that a valedictorian of a class of 700 kids might be rejected over a student in the top 10% in a much much smaller class.</p>
<p>Personally I’d think a valedictorian demands more merit than the student in the 10%"</p>
<p>You are assuming that the valedictorian is the best student. But many schools use metrics for this that are flawed at best and often irrelevant. At our school for instance, if you participate actively in the arts you cannot be valedictorian and will struggle to be in the top 10% at all. </p>
<p>I think the teachers know much better who is prepared, insightful, original, contributing, leading in the classroom, going above and beyond what is necessary to get that A. Those grades and formulas just don’t capture it at all. You haven’t seen the letters for the valedictorian or “the student in the 10%”. I know that in some cases my kid’s actual grade was over 15% higher in a class than other students who received the exact same grade in the course. You can’t tell the difference just looking at GPA, but hopefully the teachers and the GC know this and communicate it to the colleges. </p>
<p>"Nobody will care about your UG after you graduate from Grad. School.
Plus, not everyone goes to grad school "
-Apparently the focus here is the top of the cream (Cornell, etc.). majority of whom at least are planning to attend a Grad. School. While not everone goes to grad. school, it appear that OP is about those who would at least plan to do so.<br>
And again, in case of CPA, who would care about UG name? Having CPA licencing speaks by itself.
The most of CC is actually into sending kids to Harvard. The majority of CC actually skip on what is after Harvard UG for those kids. Well, I guess CC is about college, what is after is irrelevant. Then everybody should march to Harvard, then private HSs have it easy or so it is claimed ever so correctly. Then, singing in unison is the best way to discuss everything. </p>
<p>I don’t know to what extent it is still true that certain feeder schools can get otherwise marginal applicants into top schools by virtue of the good old boys network. But there are plenty of non-nefarious reasons that a student in the top 20 percent of an elite private high school might be accepted over a much higher ranked student in a lesser school.</p>
<p>Most obviously, the value of a particular ranking depends on student quality. Because of that, it would be silly to consider rank in a vacuum. It is possibly that nearly every student at a place like Andover would be capable of being the valedictorian of a failing inner city high school, and that well over ten percent would be able to be among the top student in even an average public school. So, if you have an applicant who has qualities you very much value, it is illogical to draw a line and say “but he wasn’t in the top 10 % of his small, super-competitive high school.” </p>
<p>In addition, when the high school is well-known to be excellent, certain statements in recommendations may carry more weight. If an English teacher from West Pine Bluff regional high school writes that a student was “the best of my career,” that’s nice, but not necessarily all that convincing - how many exceptional students has he come across? If most of the college-bound students in a school are attending community and directional colleges, you might well have a “best ever” student who wouldn’t actually be that out of the ordinary if she weren’t a big fish in a small pond. If a teacher from Andover says the same thing, that’s going to be really influential, even if the student isn’t good enough in some of her other subjects to be in the top 10 % of her extremely competitive high school. </p>
<p>In any case, to the OP: holistic admissions. Every applicant to an elite school is a unique (if not special) snowflake, so someone outside the top 10% by grades at one school could most certainly be deemed a more attractive candidate overall than a valedictorian at another school.</p>