<p>At my (private) HS, it isn't uncommon for a person outside the 10% to go to an Ivy league school.</p>
<p>For example, a senior in the top 15% went to MIT, while another senior in the top 20% went to Cornell. Mind you, I asked them before the year ended, and none of them had major awards (like qualifying for the AIME, winning the Google Science Fair, etc).</p>
<p>And even within the 10%, none of the seniors who went to ivy leagues (brown, dartmouth, princeton) took a crazy load of APs.... the max they took was 7 or 8 by senior year.</p>
<p>And every time I go on CC, it is all too common to hear of 4.0 UW/ 2300 SAT/ Valedictorians rejected from schools of this caliber. </p>
<p>APs may simply not be available at private HS in the same numbers as at publics. At D’s HS, they were allowed to take APs starting with the junior year and only 3/year. So, who is at disadvantage here I am not sure, since the max allowed APs at D’s HS was 6. The fact is though, that college know these schools (including D’s tiny HS, her class had only 33 kids). Yes, it is much eiasier to teach class that has 15 very very dedicated students with very dedicated to their education parents who are paying great money and make sure that they are getting good return on this money. As D. has discovered later at college, her Regular classes were taught at higher level than APs at other HSs. It landed her a great job while in UG (the one that she did not apply, but was hand picked by a prof.) as a Supplemental Instructor in Gen. Chem for 3 years. She never had AP Chem, but she never had a grade below 100%+ in college Chem. and prof. witnessed students after each class lined up to ask her questions. She ended up tutoring many who had AP Chem. in HS and they were very happy with her instructions. Prof. commented that she raise a grade in his class.<br>
So, maybe you should consider the fact that when families are paying (in addition to paying all taxes that go to the public schools), they really demand high level of instruction at HS and great commitment to education from their own kids. So, number of APs in these private HSs may not indicate at all the level of education. On the other hand, they are also involved in ECs that outsider may simply not recognized, since they include all students. They dedicate some days for public services, etc. Some things D. even did not end up putting into her application at all, while kids at publics would include them. She jsut did not think of them as something special as the whole school participated. Things like taking national exams and placing there is a norm, not some kind of exception (like Spanish, French or others)
I also remember, that while I heard many complaints about difficulty of college English (from parents of very good HS’ers), the Honors college English was a waste of time for my D., an easy A, after a torture that she had to indure in her English class at her HS, where she has learned everything she needed…
I can go on and on and on. Another example was that she beat by a lot the higest score available in her college Spanish placement test. That placed her in 3rd year of college Spanish, which was one of her best UG classes.
I do not think that privates have it easier, I believe that students work their ------ off becasue of pressure that they put on themselves, the pressure from paying parents, peers, the best teachers (lots of them were teaching at colleges before).
Colleges are very well aware of these facts.
On the other note, why such a push to go to Ivy / Elite, I never understood that. These top kids could easily attend UG on full tuition Merit or full ride and many smart ones realize that and do not participate in the race (to Cornell,…) that does not make much sense to them, since the plan for vast majority of them to go to Grad. School anyway. Nobody will care about your UG after you graduate from Grad. School. But this is a topic for another discussion.</p>
<p>With all due respect, Miami, it IS possible to answer posts on CC without this incessant bragging about your daughter. It’s fine to mention her success now and then if it’s relevant to a question but it’s unnecessary and over the top when you go into such detail over and over and over again. We get that you’re proud of her but honestly, people would take your opinions more seriously if you would dial it back a little. </p>
<p>In my experience, it depends on the private school. Some of these private schools are as competitive for admissions as some colleges. Getting admitted to Choate or Exeter, for example, is not a slam dunk. And the students work very and at those prep schools…it is expected that they do so.</p>
<p>Now there are some private schools where this might not be the case, and just being able to pay the bill gains you admission. </p>
<p>And there are some schools with such tiny graduating classes where it would be impossible to differentiate between the skills of the top student with others…for example…if a HS graduation class at a prep school is the size of ONE classroom of students (under 40 students, let’s say), I would say it would be expected that they all would do well, and they all would have the potential to attend the college of their choice. NOTE…I did not say IVY…I said the college of their choice. Their parents are paying for individual attention…and they expect to receive it.</p>
<p>And lastly…at some of those high profile prep schools, think about their student populations. Many of their families are extremely well educated, and are successful career people…and many also attended top prep schools and colleges. </p>
<p>It’s not that the students “have it easier”.</p>
<p>^^ … it IS possible to answer posts on CC without this incessant bragging about your daughter…" </p>
<p>LOL - I was reading parts of that post over morning coffee and I noted that the awesomeness of the daughter just increased in every paragraph. I did appreciate the morning giggle. </p>
<p>My kid’s private school stopped reporting class rank. Why? Because it hurt kids outside the top 10%. There was very little difference in stats between the kids in the top 10% and the top 20%. Mostly it came down to what you took for electives. Kids in the top 10% were those who took electives at the honors level. Kids who took electives like photography because they enjoyed it were hurt because they didn’t get the extra bump in their weighted average. The same thing happens at competitive public schools - any time you have a school with a high concentration of talented students, you’re going to see a cluster at the top and metrics like top 10% become meaningless. </p>
<p>It’s not necessarily easier to be in the top 25% in a top prep school. Not all schools label their classes AP but they may be every bit as demanding as an AP class. There are many magnet public schools which have such strong students that more than the top 10% get into top ranked schools. Many private schools have a lot of legacies which help. Many private schools have students in sports that are less commonly played at public schools (think sailing, crew, squash). Not all public schools have schedules where it is even possible to take more than 8-10 APs. Our high school offers 24 APs, but I believe my son took more than most with 9 or 10. My son was one of only six in his school (top 1% of the class) who took Calculus BC as a junior, and he took one of his high school sciences over the summer which allowed him to take 3 AP science courses. Many schools reject lots of vals with high scores and grades because there is too many of them to go around, especially after schools fill their other institutional needs.</p>
<p>It depends. Some privates with strong reputations are able to place lots of their students at top colleges. Even their non top 10% students land somewhere competitive. But other privates don’t. One academically strong private here had a year in which no one got into an Ivy League school and the private had a crisis of confidence! Parents were sending their kids to that school and paying those fees and expected better results. </p>
This is like to say as long as you have a great dinner, why do you care about lunch. LOL. While many people would agree dinner is “more important” than lunch. Some people do have both meals to their liking if they don’t have to choose one or the other. I mean forward thinking is good but don’t take it too far as saying an UG education anywhere is the same.</p>
<p>As for the “have it easy” question, thumper1 made some good points. Schools with selective admissions, be it private or public magnet, are often more competitive and it’s more difficult to stand out in both academics and EC endeavors. That said, I think the advantage is that top colleges know these schools well, so they don’t always use the regular “cutoff” such as top 10% or SAT scores they might use to select candidates from an “unknown” school. It makes sense for these schools to send more students to top colleges because this is a highly self select group, and schools like Groton and Andover have admit rates in low teens from a national/international applicant pool, and they select high potential URMs, student athletes, top college legacies, academic stars etc. already.</p>
<p>@Benley thanks for the comment about “nobody caring about your UG”. I did not consider my UG just punching a ticket to grad school, even though I got a PhD. It was an integral part of my development as a human being. Pretty much no one in my life now knows or cares where I went to UG; that’s not the point. I care, a lot. </p>
<p>Most private schools also have a very good college counseling staff who are connected to the students from freshman year on. They develop a good relationship with the kids and offer help at each step of the application process. We had three college counselors for 125 kids…that’s a good ratio to be able to key in on good fit schools and submitting the best possible app to each.</p>
<p>Totally agree and while I will not go into a dissertation about my D, it is true that her top tier private high school in DC has very few AP classes (actually thinking of doing away with them altogether) and yet they are a major feeder school for all the top colleges in the country - note I did not say Ivies. There are a lot of WUSL, UChicago, Colorado College, Vassar, Wesleyan, Middlebury kids in the bunch. And they also don’t calculate GPA or class ranking for the graduating class of approximately 125 students per year. Most regional ADCOMS know the schools in their region. The disadvantaged kids are those that come from schools unfamiliar to the ADCOM. I know, I came from such a school myself.</p>
<p>Scholarme. You’ve only been around for a few months. Hearing the same story over and over and over for years and years… well… its easier just to refer to it, as has been suggested, as “post #1”</p>
<p>Still it’s somewhat strange that a valedictorian of a class of 700 kids might be rejected over a student in the top 10% in a much much smaller class.</p>
<p>Personally I’d think a valedictorian demands more merit than the student in the 10%.</p>
<p>Not all private schools have high placement rates at Ivy Leagues. It depends upon the culture of the school, and the parents. Some schools have students who mostly aim for good liberal arts colleges. The schools which are successful in this regard have established relationships with elite universities, going back to the 19th century. The colleges know how well (or poorly) students from particular schools fare. They know the schools take the college prep mission seriously; the schools emphasize writing, study skills, and time management. Some of the schools are more likely to have Ivy legacies, because their own alumni are also likely to be Ivy alumni.</p>
<p>I recently heard a radio program pointing out that some public high schools in California have a 1,000 to 1 student/guidance counselor ratio. My jaw dropped when I heard on that program that courses in college counseling were not required of guidance counselors (at least in California.) Remember that a significant part of a college application consists of the school recommendation. If you’re one of a thousand, and your counselor has no idea what he/she is doing, I’d imagine the recommendations from that school all sound the same. </p>
<p>In comparison, two counselors for about 90 kids, or three for 125–yes, that’s the ratio that seems common in this area for good boarding schools. These counselors are college counseling specialists. They may coach teams, or be dorm parents, or teach a class, but all that allows them to know the students better. That allows them to guide their students well, and it leads to more accurate descriptions. The counselors I have known are able to suggest colleges which are more likely to fit the student. Building a good list is important. </p>
<p>Another important difference is that many private schools gently or clearly encourage students to apply early. (That could also come from the parents.) If a student receives an acceptance from a dream college, there’s pressure on that kid to not apply to lots of other “dream schools,” as a courtesy to fellow students. The students are also encouraged not to apply to dozens of schools. That means the colleges know that a kid they accept early is likely to show up, even with early action, and that even a student applying RD has a much shorter list than the norm. As a private school parent, I believe those limits are best for the class as a whole, rather than allowing a few superstars to rack up dozens of acceptances. YMMV.</p>
<p>@Benley Wow… it’s certainly true that in some way, you can “buy” your way into admissions. If you cant get into a top prep school early on, your chances of getting into a top school drops noticeably.</p>
<p>@mathmom but why wouldn’t top schools want more valedictorians? They’re accepting the creme of the crop, and they’d boost the academic (and possibly athletic) aspects of the school.</p>