<p>I can’t find any evidence for what seems to be your own opinion. </p>
<p>I can’t think of a student who’s been “forced” to attend a private school, among my kids’ friends. I can think of a number of students who requested a change of school, either outright, or by obvious unhappiness in their current schools. The student has to at least agree to a change of schools.</p>
<p>I do find it regrettable that even middle school students are worrying about college these days.</p>
<p>@ The great thing is (in my experience) the kids who are in the top 10%, most of them are laid back individuals who have good life balance (they can party, do community service, and also earn good grades).</p>
<p>“parent-selected”? “self-selected”? What’s the difference in this context? The point is that these student have been pre-selected so they are not a random sample of school age children, so their college destinations are not representative of the general population. </p>
<p>@jajjar: ??? What do you mean? Do you mean the top 10% of classes of public schools can “party, do community service and also good grades”? Believe it or not, private school kids can do that too. Why are you focusing on the top 10% anyway? Have you not been listening? If that’d be enough to get one in top colleges, that would be “have it easy”.</p>
<p>@Benley no I meant specifically private school kids. I initially thought people in the top 10% would be study-neurotics, but it’s nice to know that they aren’t. And I’m not saying they have it easy, but it is noticeably easier for them (based on the colleges the top 10% in my school go to).</p>
<p>And these colleges are usually Ivy leagues or top-5 LACs.</p>
<p>"I initially thought people in the top 10% would be study-neurotics, but it’s nice to know that they aren’t. And I’m not saying they have it easy, but it is noticeably easier for them (based on the colleges the top 10% in my school go to).</p>
<p>And these colleges are usually Ivy leagues or top-5 LACs."</p>
<p>Jarjar, you would be well advised not to project from your particular school to the universe. Different private schools will have different cultural norms, different sets of “target colleges” (often based on where the school itself is located - schools outside the NE may not be as Ivy-League or top-LAC centric as schools in the NE). Talking about “all private schools” as a whole is as useless as talking about “all public schools” - as there are outstanding privates and mediocre privates, outstanding public schools and mediocre public schools. </p>
<p>"Well, Pizzagirl, you did say,
… the prime motivator for a private hs is simply religious instruction, not superior academics.</p>
<p>I can’t find any evidence for what seems to be your own opinion."</p>
<p>My bad. I did not express myself clearly. How’s this -
There are many students whose parents desire them to attend private schools; however, this is sometimes driven by a belief that a private school is academically better, and other times driven by a desire that the student be taught in an environment of religious faith (and while the academics in such a situation may be better, the driving motivator is often the religious faith).</p>
<p>In any case, can anyone actually provide an example of a top-ranked student at a high school going to CC because he/she could not get in to any better option (as opposed to choosing to go there instead of a more prestigious option because of costs/family etc.)? Note that many/most publics, even renown flagships, weigh GPA and class rank heavily precisely because they want to serve all segments of their state.</p>
<p>Anecdotal evidence is already pretty weak, but when your anecdotal evidence is a nonexistent unicorn, your point really falls apart.</p>
<p>And to piggyback onto Pizzagirl’s post #105, there are some non-Catholic parents who choose the Catholic schools in our area, either because they are smaller, perceived as safer, and/or they are looking for specific sports programs.</p>
<p>“In any case, can anyone actually provide an example of a top-ranked student at a high school going to CC because he/she could not get in to any better option (as opposed to choosing to go there instead of a more prestigious option because of costs/family etc.)?”</p>
<p>Not every top-ranked student wants to go to a top-ranked school. There are plenty of top-ranked, smart kids who are happy to go off to their state flagship in many parts of this country. Just not typically the NE.</p>
<p>@Pizzagirl, sure, but top-ranked schools aren’t the only schools more prestigious than CC. The post I was responding to was bemoaning how unfortunate it was that top-ranked kids from some high schools have no better choice but CC. I was asking if anyone could actually find such an example. I do consider state flagships to be more prestigious than CC if that is a source of confusion.</p>
<p>True - I was kind of riffing to another point!</p>
<p>There are a not inconsiderable number of people in my area who have adopted the strategy of - kid to CC for the first two years, live at home / save $, and then send to state flagship - at the end of the day, kid has state flagship degree and no one will know / care the first 2 years were comm college. It is not <em>my</em> preferred strategy, and I worked like mad to make sure I wasn’t in that position, but for middle-class families - I’m not quite sure I can ding or look down on them for using their money smartly that way. </p>
jarjar, I’m getting mixed messages from your posts. So you are saying you are currently a private school student and you think you and your school peers “have it easy”? You must be a very optimistic person! Not long ago, the Andover school newspaper had a student survey in which the majority said attending Andover would hurt their chances of getting in top colleges. This is a school where typically 50%+ of the 300+ student class go on to top 25 universities or top 10 LACs (as in US News rankings). Now they may have too high expectations, but no doubt they don’t think they can “have it easy”… Look, we can analyze all we want and try to find whatever looks like a formula for success, but at the end of the day, as a student you shouldn’t think about where you could have it easy. Instead, wherever you are, you should give your best run and make the most of the opportunities available to you. After all elite colleges say that’s the type of students they are looking for.</p>
<p>Well put, Benley. After all, what’s the point of agonizing whether “the other side” has it easier or harder? Either way, you can’t change it – worry about what you can control, your own performance. </p>
<p>Like public schools, private schools including Catholic schools as well as colleges for that matter can vary greatly in quality.</p>
<p>To take a small sample from the NYC area, this is reflected among Catholic colleges which range from good respectable ones like Manhattan or Fordham to mediocre ones like St. John’s U which even many Catholic families I knew growing up would be loath to send their kids*…especially if they’re not studying one of their few strong niche programs like Pharmacy and/or not on full-scholarships. </p>
<ul>
<li>Lost count of how many Catholic friends/acquaintances in and out of HS who ended up being forced by their Catholic families to attend a local CUNY because they didn’t think that private Catholic college was worth the tuition or worse, felt the CUNY even back in the early '90s offered better academics at a bargain rate. And this was in an era when CUNY 4-year colleges were considered schools of last resort/13th grade for even those near the bottom of their graduating classes.<br></li>
</ul>
<p>
</p>
<p>Something to consider to put things into some perspective. Two possible reasons for smart kids from public schools having a Manichean view you described as opposed to their prep school ideals:</p>
<ol>
<li><p>Prep schools, especially elite ones have highly selective admissions processes which mean the intelligence/academic ability spectrum is considerably more narrowed compared with your average public school.</p></li>
<li><p>Many smart public school high school students have likely endured years of bullying from classmates, teachers/admins, other parents, and popular culture at large on account of their above average intellect/academic abilities and/or interest in intellectual/academic matters due to school/larger societal culture which denigrates academic achievement, intellectual/academic matters and academic achievers/intellectuals. </p></li>
</ol>
<p>As someone who had a taste of this in early elementary and junior high school and have lost count of how many college classmates and colleagues who recounted experiencing this sort of bullying in more mainstream American public and some private high schools, this isn’t news. Incidentally, one major reason why I attended my urban public magnet high school was to avoid this sort of bullying, especially considering my old neighborhood high school* was notorious for physical violence as an older neighbor’s multiple stitches from getting knifed illustrated. Good prep schools…especially elite ones like my public magnet don’t have this culture/atmosphere of denigrating academic achievement and achievers. </p>
<ul>
<li>Ended up being closed down a few years ago because of low graduation and academic performance ratings.<br></li>
</ul>
<p>cobrat, the school I attended was not Exeter, Brearley, or Stuyvesant. It was a good, WASPy day school in a provincial city, and it had a pretty wide range of students. Bullying was far from unknown. As a smart, unathletic kid, I was taught in no uncertain terms that I had a responsibility to engage with my classmates on the athletic fields, and to get my ass whupped there, just as they had a responsibility to sit in class with me while I whupped their asses. It was not always easy, especially in what is now called middle school, but over time it created a pretty strong culture of mutual respect that was a huge part of my education.</p>
<p>The Val and Sal of our suburban public high school typically have perfect or near perfect test scores, have taken the maximum possible number of AP classes, have some stellar EC’s, and are just really, really smart. They generally get accepted to HYPCSM et al. There are, of course, private schools where that is also the case, but in our area it seems it’s far more difficult to be the top student at one of the competitive public schools than at the privates. At a summer program D met kids who were tops at their private schools in our area, yet only had SAT’s in the 1800–2000 range. That would not happen at our large public high school. It is also much, much harder to make a varsity sports team or get elected club president at a large public.</p>
<p>Of course, most private schools are not academically elite, even though it may seem so from reading this forum. The students, or parents of students, in non-elite private schools are less likely to be the ones posting about getting into highly selective colleges.</p>
Most public schools are even less so. Wouldn’t you agree? Sometimes I find it difficult to get some people understand that the landscape of public vs private schools is a miniature of the landscape of public vs private colleges. Certainly, there are elite ones in both categories but most others are not. Most people attend public schools/colleges (only 16% of college students attend private colleges, and 10% of k-12 students private schools) and that won’t change any time soon, but somehow it’s OK to talk about private college but private school seems a “difficult” topic. It’s puzzling.</p>
<p>@Benley maybe it’s because most kids who go to a private school get an advantage (quality of education, facilities, better staff) than those who don’t, so most CC’ers (who went to a public school) dont like to hear about it?</p>
Not long ago, the Andover school newspaper had a student survey in which the majority said attending Andover would hurt their chances of getting in top colleges. This is a school where typically 50%+ of the 300+ student class go on to top 25 universities or top 10 LACs (as in US News rankings). Now they may have too high expectations, but no doubt they don’t think they can “have it easy”… Look, we can analyze all we want and try to find whatever looks like a formula for success, but at the end of the day, as a student you shouldn’t think about where you could have it easy. Instead, wherever you are, you should give your best run and make the most of the opportunities available to you. After all elite colleges say that’s the type of students they are looking for.</p>