Do really good test scores and academics balance out a lack of EC?

Colleges and Universities A-Z University of Pennsylvania
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<p>One of the programs I’d love to get into is Wharton’s undergrad business. However, I’m worried about my lack of E/C activities, or at least the lack of standing out in them. I do have strong test scores. I’m only a junior and have to take more tests.</p>

<p>Here are some of my stats:</p>

<p>SAT I: 1480(took in 10th grade, pretty confident I will get 2250+ on new one)</p>

<p>SAT II: 750 Bio, 720 Chem (I know this score sux, was gonna retake it, but I’m goin to take physics in June and Im pretty confident I’ll get 750+ on that since im a lot better at physics. Also, bio and chem were my worst subjects)
Will also take Math IIc and US history in June along with Physics (predicting 750+)</p>

<p>APs: my school doesnt really allow students to take APs till senior year and some junior year. But im in the all the highest classes as far as courseload is concerned ( I’m currnetly taking AP stats and AP US history and will take 5 AP courses next year)</p>

<p>School Rank: dont know yet, but pretty sure in top 5% of 650.</p>

<p>E/C: well, this is the area I’m lacking.
*I did track and XC for 2 years and was JV, but I couldnt keep at it because of a shin problem
*was on class cabinet 2 years, and then quit cuz its really pointless
*was on bio team, chem team, and currently on physics team (finished 14th in the state for Bio for individuals)
*volunteered and worked at the library for almost two years
*volunteered at a senior home past summer
*this summer, am planning to do an internship at Howard Hughes Medical Institute or Brown University
*beginning of next school year, hopefully will have internship in the Democratic Party Organization or at an orthodontist’s office
*member of National Honor Society and Spanish Honor Society, may run for a position in one of those, dont know if I’ll win.
*Was nominated a couple of times for this national leadership thing in DC, but never went
…that’s all I can think of right now, there may be some other clubs and stuff but probably pretty insignificant. I guess I have an ok amount of E/C, but I just see that so many other people have ridiculous amount of awards in their areas. I dont really have anything that makes me stand out in an area besides academics. You think the strong academics will help me balance out the lack of strength in EC? Any advice, although kinda late cuz I’m a junior, on how to make myself stand out more? Feel free to make any kind of comment, suggestions, etc, etc.</p>

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<p>try to get deeply involved with an activity thats important to you
schools want people that are unique</p>

<p>like from the life of brian</p>

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<p>lol, yes, Monty Python is so awesome.</p>

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<p>If I was an admissions officer, The Black Knight would be so in. And so would the french soldier throwing cows.</p>

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<p>Your scores and such are good, as you said. And that 720 is perfectly fine. I don't see why you think that is a bad SAT II score... Anyway, to your question...</p>

<p>If I were you I would play up the internships that you say that you are expecting to get - especially if you get recognized in some major way for your work there - such as getting your name in an abstract or something that gets published. The rest of your ECs are good, but not outstanding, as you said - especially since you didn't stick with them for more than a couple years. Admissions officers like to see a long-standing commitment to something. They don't like to see that you've done a bunch of different things for a couple years each, and were somewhat involved...</p>

<p>I think the hooks for me getting into Penn were the following:</p>

<p>*Good grades/test scores (which you have)</p>

<p>*Pretty good ECs (track, xc - both varsity) -- (you have this, but being JV won't make them stand out as much, if at all)</p>

<p>*Unusual Service (I did several service projects and continual service year-round - one of the projects bringing me to one of the poorest Native American Reservations in the US - which was a blast btw) -- It seems that you have the service, but nothing unusual about it - if you're going to play this aspect of yourself up, make sure you have the material to back yourself up - I went to an info session near my hometown in which one of the adcoms said that every year they get something like 500 personal statements on the value of service, etc...they believed that about 25 of them were sincere - so if you're going to write about service in your personal statement, make sure it is sincere (as mine was).</p>

<p>*Internships - I had an internships last summer at Yale New Haven Medical School, and got noted in an abstract. -- If you can get to know the people you work with in the Brown/Hughes Medical School, or the Democratic Party Organization, so that you either 1. get a great rec from them, or 2. get cited in some piece of work that they do...I'd say this will help you a lot.</p>

<p>Finally - I would just drop the Leadership Conf. in DC - from what I've heard from people that went on it, is that its basically total BS, and its mainly just a good time... And especially if you didn't go, don't put it in your app - it will just seem like you are struggling to fill in the empty spots in your app.</p>

<p>Anyway, so yea, if you are sincere about the service you do, and/or get good internships - I would beef up your application with those.</p>

<p>For my app - I wrote an essay on the service at the Native American Res, and made sure to mention both that AND my Yale internship in my Why Penn essay (as well as sending in the abstract I was given credit for as a supplement to my app). I'd say you have a good shot if you can do any of these things....although as with all elite schools....its simply a crap shoot.</p>

<p>Oh yea, and no good test scores don't balance out a lack of ECs - no matter how good they are...so try to beef some of those up if you can.</p>

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<p>Thanx a lot Pennjem. That was very helpful. There was one thing I wasn't sure what u meant about being sincere in your service, do u mean that 500 ppl in ur high school bull*****ted their application by lying about their volunteer services? Also, do u know if colleges check up on that? Cuz my friend who got into Duke this year, he said colleges don't even really look into stuff like how many hours of volunteering you did. He put down 200 hrs when he only did about 100 at a local medical center. I mean do u have to provide concrete evidence of your services? I didnt really get any certificate or anything for my work at the senior home or library. </p>

<p>Also, now that I think about services that stand out, I was part of this youth group at my local Chinese School. The interesting thing we did was help new families who had just moved from China transition into American society. For example, I taught ESL classes to some adults and children. We also held fundraisers for clothes, toys, etc for the poorer families. We also held Christmas parties and Thanksgiving dinners for all these families. Do u think this qualifies as an "unusual servicce," lol? But once again, I dont really have like a certificate of proof for these services, so is this useless?</p>

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<p>Ok...</p>

<p>I'll explain the service thing that I was referring to in more detail:</p>

<p>I went to an info session for Penn in Stamford, CT in the fall of this year. At the info session, the admissions officer for CT was answering questions. One person asked, "What do you like/don't like to see in applicant's personal statements?" I don't really remember the answer...as to what they liked to see... :) BUT, I remembered the single statement (by the adcom) - "I advise you not to write about service in either of your personal statements." (which got me VERY nervous, since that was precisely what I wrote about!!!) Anyway, the adcom went on to explain why - Basically she said that of the 1000s of essays she got each year, that she got somewhere near 500+ essays based on, or about, a person's community service (for example: "what service means to me," "the meaning of service," and things pertaining to these types of subjects). Of those 500 essays that she said that she read, she only found a little over 50 of them to be truly sincere (meaning, she didn't believe that the other 450 or so of them were telling the truth about the meaning that their service had to them - basically that they only did it to get into college, and could care less about the people they were helping - they were BS'ing their essays - not necessarily the service they had done, but the feelings that they had about it).</p>

<p>No, you don't need to provide proof of any kind of service that you do. And no, colleges/adcoms really have no way (or the time for that matter) of checking the exact service that you did or didn't do. So technically you could lie about it on your app, although I advise against it since there would be pretty big consequences if they found out - and personally I find it incredibly dishonorable to do so - so I have little respect for your so called friend.</p>

<p>Finally, if you truly had a good time doing that with your youth group, yes I think that would be a wonderful thing to play on. Include it in your essays, and try to highlight it in some way so that it doesn't get lost in the shuffle. Maybe try to find a way to link it to something that you could do at Penn when you write your "Why Penn?" essay. In mine, I linked my service at Rosebud (the Native American Res) to the director of Civic House (a service organization at Penn) who had worked with Pueblo Native Americans, and linked my Yale Internship to a program at Penn called CURF - which is basically undergraduate research. So, finding things to link your activities - the youth group stuff/internships you get - is definetly a good thing to do in your "Why Penn?" essay and/or your other one. And no, you don't need evidence that you did that youth group service either.</p>

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<p>If your scores are REALLY good and grades are really great then I can see them making up for lack of outside-the-class things, but that would probably hold truer for Engineering rather than Wharton.</p>

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<p>Gracias mucho amigos.</p>

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<p>i concur with ththoughtprocess and not just because of his/her username. i mean i didn't play any sports nor held any big leaderships positions and still got into penn engineering. however, your scores don't have to be extremely good either.</p>

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<p>im a junior this year. Would these stats help make up for poor ec's?</p>

<p>Sat: 1540 (m: 780, v: 760)
Sat ii: math iic: 800, writing: 790, physics (in may, hopefully an 800)
PSAT: 221 (in Florida, so i should get semifinalist)
GPA: Between 4.86-4.92 weighted, or 3.95-4.00. This depends on if I get an A in history this year.</p>

<p>Rank: Either 1-3 out of a class of about 600. I am in full ib diploma programm.
Classes: All IB except for 2 regular and 2 honors. Taking toughest math class available, and taken the toughest schedule in general probably in the county (as it is the only full ib program).</p>

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<p>Do you have ANY ECs? HYPS are unlikely, but the other Ivies are potentially possible with that record. I know a guy who had a 1560, Valedictorian, no ECs and he only got into Duke out of the top schools he applied to.</p>