Do SAT subject tests count so much?

Applying to College
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<p>I don't think I said the HS classes are geared toward the SAT. At any rate, that's not what I meant. What I meant was, many schools in the Midwest pretty much ignore the entire SAT system (except for PSAT which is also the qualifying test for National Merit). Schools in the Northeast and California ---where SAT, not ACT, is the norm---often advise students to set up their HS class schedule with an eye toward which SAT II tests they're going to take, and to take the SAT II subject tests immediately after taking the class in the subject, when their memory of the material is freshest. A lot of kids in the Midwest aren't getting similar advice, because their schools are much more oriented toward the ACT which tests achievement in only a few key areas. </p>

<p>Also, because the SAT IIs (like all these tests) are designed and scaled to get a "normal" distribution among the people who actually take the test, the kinds of information that get tested for, and the weights assigned to particular questions, will indirectly reflect the high school curricula of the largest numbers of test-takers, i.e., kids in the Northeast and California. So even if the HS courses aren't designed to prep for the SAT II, the SAT II could very well reflect any differences in curricula that emerge over time by region. I'm not saying there are any such divergences that I'm aware of, in particular; only that the Midwestern schools that ignore the SAT are left out of that ongoing "dialog."</p>

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<p>Agree with posts #11 and #19:
Subject tests are very important at top schools in validating the
students preparation. A bad score can be damaging.</p>

<p>High % of students at my school have 5s on APs but a smaller %
have equivalently good SAT Subject scores >750. The high
SAT subject scorers usually find it easier to get into their
top choices though obviously other factors are involved.</p>

<p>I do know however that low SAT Subject scorers who did not
rectify their score were rejected at their top choices.</p>

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<p>I think that the multiple choice questions on the subject tests are actually a tad bit harder than those on the AP. I took the World History AP and the World History Subject Test and felt that the subject test was more difficult</p>

<p>And for the record I got a 5 and a 740 respectively.</p>

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<p>among others, I took the Math 1C SAT2 and I got a 730.....my other SAT2s were really great. Do you guys think that the 730 will hurt me? I'm fine at math but its not really my thing...</p>

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<p>I don't think taking SAT subject tests is as much regional as it is reflective of the socioeconoic background of a school system. We're in the northeast but our school has very few applicants to elite schools. Guidance doesn't even mention subject tests, teachers certainly aren't offering pointers for the tests. I've given the heads up to other parents about the need to schedule subject tests at the completion of the class rather than fall of senior year when kids discover that some schools require them.</p>

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among others, I took the Math 1C SAT2 and I got a 730.....my other SAT2s were really great. Do you guys think that the 730 will hurt me? I'm fine at math but its not really my thing...

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<p>I would hope not, since that's my best score.</p>

<p>All the advice I've received about the SAT has come from CC. I've even gotten most of my ACT advice from here. Some schools just do not advise students on things like this. The advice I did receive for the ACT was this: skip the writing the first time, so you can focus on the rest. Luckily, I didn't abide by that. The result? Many of my peers got very good scores, but they have to retake anyway because they didn't do writing the first time. Guidance counselors often have a direct hand in how well their students fare in college admissions.</p>

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<p>A 730 is fine. that test has a mean curve to, i think.</p>

<p>The SAT IIs can't really be very regional, as many top tier colleges require/recommend them...</p>

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<p>I'll probably just send my SAT scores to certain schools. I'm sure Ohio State and Ohio Wesleyan will be fine with just the ACT.</p>

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<p>Not so at all. Connecticut and Minnesota are in some ways fairly similar states: both relatively highly educated, relatively high income, relatively high college participation rates. Minnesota is actually considerably larger in population, with 5.2 million residents compared to Connecticut's 3.5 million. </p>

<p>Yet according to the College Board, only 1,733 Minnesota HS seniors took SAT II subject tests in 2007, while 19,270 Connecticut HS seniors took one or more SAT II subject tests. That's well over 10 times as many students taking the test in Connecticut, despite a state population 1/3 smaller.</p>

<p>Why the discrepancy? Well, it starts with SAT v. ACT. Most Minnesota kids take the ACT--69% of Minnesota high school graduates take that test annually, one of the highest participation rates in the country, and their average ACT scores are also among the highest in the country. (In contrast, only 19% of Connecticut HS graduate take the ACT each year). Very few Minnesotans (only 5,468 in 2007) take the SAT I reasoning test. This compares with 35,575 Connecticut kids who took the SAT I that same year. In each state, the number taking SAT IIs is a fraction of those taking the SAT I; but the fraction is smaller in Minnesota, less than 1/3 of a very small base of SAT I-takers, while in Connecticut well over half of those who took the SAT I also took SAT IIs.</p>

<p>Why? Simple. Most Midwesterners go to college in the Midwest, and most Midwestern colleges prefer the ACT. They'll generally accept the SAT (or sometimes SAT I and SAT II combined) as a substitute. Some Midwesterners do head to the Northeast or the West Coast for college, where the SAT is more prevalent. But most Northeastern and West Coast schools also accept the ACT as a substitute for the SAT, and in most cases, they accept the ACT as a substitute for BOTH SAT I and SAT II. So most Minnesota kids who plan (or hope) to go to schools on the East or West Coasts have no need to take any SATs at all, either I or II. The SAT II just isn't on their radar screen; nor is it on the radar screens of their teachers, administrators, GCs, or parents.</p>

<p>Occasionally, though, a Midwestern kid will apply to a college that doesn't accept the ACT as a substitute for SAT I and II. A small handful of schools require SAT IIs even if you submit an ACT score. Those kids get caught in the switches. They may miss deadlines. They may be clueless as to what the SAT IIs are even about until late in the game. They may try to take their SAT IIs "out of sequence," not following close on the heels of a class on that subject, when their performance on the related SAT II is likely to be highest.</p>

<p>Darned right it's a regional thing.</p>

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<p>Ohio Wesleyan recommends sending the SAT subject tests. Which means that all else equal among candidates, they can only help.</p>

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<p>SAT II's, and I think AP scores (to the extent which you were able to take them), are likely going to grow in prominence this year at the very top schools (top 10 LAC, top 15 University) as they try to sort out the deluge of applications. These admissions committees are going to be sleepless from November 1 to April 1. In a pinch, scores might be key.</p>

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<p>Yes, many teachers and guidance counselors in Minnesota are clueless about the role SAT Subject Tests play in admission at some colleges. I've had to write FAQs about that just to educate AP physics teachers, for example, on why their students should also take the SAT Subject Test in physics.</p>

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<p>In my experience, subject tests had very little weight. My brother had 800's on Chem, Bio, and Physics and a 760 on Math II and still failed to gain admission to any of his top 7 (H, Y, P, Penn, Cornell, MIT, Caltech) schools. I suppose this is anecdotal evidence, but I subsequently talked to some admissions counsellors and their party line seemed to be that good scores on SAT II's can do relatively little to help. By the same logic, middling scores probably won't do much to hurt an applicant as long as he has strong SAT's and grades.</p>

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<p>^ Stellar SAT IIs alone won't get you admitted to schools at the CHYMPS level. But other things equal---GPA, SAT I, similar ECs--the candidate with the better SAT IIs probably has a slight edge. So they do matter, but like everything, only at the margins.</p>