<p>How much do SAT subject tests count in the admissions process? I mean if you have good SAT scores (mid 700s) but SAT subject tests in the 600s, would that work against you? (Also assuming you're top of your class with most rigorous course load and you have significant leadership).</p>
<p>well first off. if you're the top of your class and getting 600s on SAT2s that is representative of the rigor of your school which colleges already know about. </p>
<p>secondly, over the last couple days i've visited two elite schools one of which said that they look at SAT2/1 equally and the other of which said you could submit three SAT2s instead of SAT1s</p>
<p>they matter</p>
<p>I'd say SAT Subjects are at least equal in importance to the SAT Reasoning, but I really think that subject tests are more important.</p>
<p>I was under the impression that SAT 2s didn't matter nearly as much as the SAT 1, although I don't have any evidence at hand to support that view. This discussion is interesting.</p>
<p>Which two schools did you visit Tzar09?</p>
<p>hmm, i have always looked at it with equal importance. Some people who do not do well in SAT 1 seem to do well in SAT 2s because of specific knowledge.</p>
<p>Hopefully, they don't count for two much. Most colleges don't even require them. I am at the top of my class, but my SAT II scores were 600, 640, and 730. I hope the adcoms don't use that to discredit my 4.0 GPA, but it's really a disadvantage to go to a less rigorous school. I would have taken the Chemistry test, but my class didn't cover half of what was on it. I hope the schools can look past a bad score and see a student who wants to make something of a bad situation.</p>
<p>They really should be just as important as the SAT I, however. They show just how much you've learned in your courses, and it can reveal lazy students who simply perform well on tests.</p>
<p>theguybehindyou: i visited Amherst College and Middlebury College</p>
<p>Amherst looks at them equally and Midd lets you submit them interchangeably (or submit the ACT of course)</p>
<p>@JBVirtuoso: If other students' SAT II scores are in the 500s, for example, then you look great.</p>
<p>SAT IIs do count a lot. They demonstrate actual knowledge of academic subjects. After all, the SAT I is more of a reasoning test than anything. As long as you have some basic knowledge of math, and some grammatical rules, you can get a perfect score (in theory at least).</p>
<p>That said, it seems that a LOT of students get 750+s for their SAT IIs, probably because they only take them if they are really good at the subject, so that might dilute their importance.</p>
<p>Well, the problem is that SAT Subject Tests are not very popular in rural Midwestern schools. I'm one of two students in my class to take Subject Tests.</p>
<p>Different schools weight them differently. My rule of thumb is good SAT subject test scores won't get you in, but crummy ones can keep you out.</p>
<p>Well, your geographical location will come in handy when applying to colleges then. The thing is, the Subject tests will indicate to colleges that your school is of mediocre quality (though, you taking it shows initiative, and school quality can be looked up anyway, by such standards as API). Weak SAT II tests will never hurt your chances if you are coming from an environment where no/few other students take them and the school teaching sucks. In these cases, SAT/ACT will be deemed more important as colleges consider them to be better indicators of intelligence as opposed to subject knowledge. For example, an 800 in math doesn't mean someone is good at calculus.</p>
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<p>I think this is a fair point. SAT II subject tests are not widely used in most of the Midwest and parts of the South. Because a lot of Midwestern and Southerns colleges prefer the ACT, that's what most Midwestern and Southern HSs emphasize. A lot of colleges--including many in the Northeast-- say that the ACT is a substitute for SAT I AND SAT II, because the ACT is as much an "achievement" test as a "reasoning" test. Others say you need to submit SAT II scores whether you submit the SAT or ACT. So it's complicated, but bottom line, if you're applying to a wide variety of colleges, you probably need to take some SAT IIs. But that doesn't mean you need to submit them everywhere; look carefully at what each school requires. If you have a strong ACT score and they'll accept that as a substitute for SAT I AND SAT II, then you're probably better off going just with the ACT.</p>
<p>I also don't think it's fair to say that if a top student at a Midwestern or Southern HS does only so-so on the SAT IIs, it indicates their high school is "mediocre." I suspect a lot of students at very good schools in the Northeast don't do as well on the ACT as they do on the SAT, because the system at their schools is geared more toward the SAT. It's a regional thing. Good colleges know this. Most good colleges also take regional diversity into account. And if they have half a brain (which some do), they'll know that if you go to a school in a small town or rural area you simply won't have the same opportunities to take AP classes as students at bigger and fancier schools. It may be a little harder for them to judge your upside potential, but if you've got an unweighted 4.0 GPA from a small high school and great SATI scores (or comparable ACT scores), then you've basically done all that can be expected of you. If they're going to hold it against you for not knowing some stuff that just wasn't taught at your HS, then that's their problem; they're losing a great candidate to a competitor school.</p>
<p>I don't think SAT IIs are considered nearly as much as SAT I...for schools in the Ivy league ect...</p>
<p>bclintock: "I also don't think it's fair to say that if a top student at a Midwestern or Southern HS does only so-so on the SAT IIs, it indicates their high school is "mediocre." I suspect a lot of students at very good schools in the Northeast don't do as well on the ACT as they do on the SAT, because the system at their schools is geared more toward the SAT"</p>
<p>I've never heard of classes being geared toward the SATII subject tests. AP classes are geared toward the AP tests. At least for the math and science ones, the AP test is much more difficult than the SATII anyway. So if your school has AP classes that are taught well, then you should be able to get 750+ on them. There may be a few odd topics that aren't covered, but those can be quickly learned in like a weekend or something by just getting a Princeton Review book or something and glancing at the topics. And they probably only account for like 2 or 3 questions out of 80 or so.</p>
<p>collegealum314 basically says what I was going to say, so I'll try to be brief.</p>
<p>I've never heard of classes teaching specifically for the SAT II subject tests (i mean real classes, not prep classes). There simply is no incentive. Of course AP classes want their students to get a 3 or higher. Most schools require students to take the AP test after the class. Many report passing rates, and thus there is incentive. Most people only take SATIIs in subjects they like, and the entire system is much less regulated. Nobody keeps track of the SATIIs and there is little to no information about them. Furthermore, there aren't clear cut "pass" or "fail" like the AP tests (3 or higher is passing).
Even the AP test is fairly catholic. It aims to not be based solely on a textbook or two. Of course an actual AP class is better due to the teacher's past experience with what comes up on the AP test content wise and questions wise, and the teacher will likely go through that with the class, but besides some concepts and the question types, which can be solved by buying a prep book, there really isn't that much of an advantage. After all, tons of students that take AP classes fail (1 or 2) on the AP test. That is more linked to teacher/class/school quality than students or content factors.</p>
<p>sat 2's are significant enough to get you deferred.</p>
<p>AP courses really do help on Subject Tests, whether they should or not. CollegeBoard's tests all have the same format. I took both the AP Lit test and the SAT Subject Lit test. I thought the MC questions were very similar to each other. Students with APs are naturally going to perform better on the Subject Tests, especially since the AP tests are harder, and they overprepare students for the Subject Tests.</p>
<p>And yes, Midwestern schools are much more geared to the ACT. Some Midwestern states (like Illinois and Michigan) require all students to take the ACT. In my school in Ohio, quite a few of my teachers have given assignments from ACT prep books. No one ever mentioned the SAT. Had I not come on CC, I would never have taken the SAT Reasoning Test or the SAT Subject Tests, since I wouldn't know anything about them.</p>
<p>SAT subject tests can be very important. </p>
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<p>These arguments make sense to Mr. Fitzsimmons [dean of admission at Harvard], who said, “People are going to prepare anyway, so they might as well study chemistry or biology.” He added that “the idea of putting more emphasis on the subject tests is of great interest” to his group.
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<p>^Thanks that was a great article. I took a chemistry subject test and the AP course, I got a 660 on the SAT II and a 5 on the AP exam....yea I don't really know what happened...would the 660 correlate more towards a 4 than a 5 and should I retake it or just emphasize the 5?
Thanks all who answered!</p>