<p>I don’t include math and hard sciences in Liberal Arts.</p>
<p>I’m really talking about humanities and social sciences.</p>
<p>I think math and science majors are among the best and most important majors to study.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>I don’t think people are necessarily looking at just the dollars when they are choosing engineering, nursing, accounting, etc. When I look I nursing, I see a great, flexible lifestyle that will also allow me time to do the things that I LOVE. I cans also see myself liking nursing, particularly if it is in Labor and Delivery.</p>
<p>And yes, that 55,000 dollars and three days a week is looking very nice. But what is nice is that I will be able to buy a home, put my kids in private school or trips to Disneyworld, and be able to go out to see the movies once a week or go out to a nice restaraunt occassionally. I will be able to write that best-selling novel that I’ve always wanted, and I will also be able to have the joy in knowing that I save lives and that my existance matters to someone.</p>
<p>And I think for that practical reason, I WILL get far in life.</p>
<p>^ I’m assuming you have never actually worked a 12-hour shift under a great deal of stress. There is a reason why nurses burn out. If you really think those “3 days a week” are going to offer such leisure, you might want to talk to some nurses. Nurses have exceptionally high rates of depression and substance abuse.</p>
<p>
- Without a citation, this isn’t going to be taken seriously.
- Even if true, it’s irrelevant. We aren’t talking about where people get their degrees.
You don’t have a link here. How can you attribute these problems to technical majors?
No link, no link, no link. You have not linked non-technical education with an “expansive view of the world”. I already said it once: the connection between non-technical majors and ethics/morality seems very tenuous. Besides, even engineers generally do have to meet distribution requirements in different fields.
Engineers, accountants, and other technical majors can become lawyers too. Read the thread title again to remind yourself of what we are talking about.
Once again, it seems to me that things such as religion, friendship, and ECs occurring outside the classroom have far more to do with communication and human understanding than non-technical majors.
Since the phrase in the title was “technical”, your interpretation is probably in the spirit of the thread.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>I am also infatuated with history as well. I love watching historical movies, particularly on 15th/16th century England (Anne of the Thousands is one of my favorite movies). I excel at writing, and I am a columnist for my school’s newspaper. I think liberal arts are extremely important, but from what I have learned in most of my liberal arts class is not applicable to real life…at least not directly.</p>
<p>Btw, I also have to laugh when I hear people say liberal arts teaches you how to think critically. True, but technically speaking, math majors, physics/hard science majors all have great critical thinking skills as well. Math majors score the highest on the LSATs.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>I’ve talked to plenty of nurses, and that is one thing they LOVE about their jobs. Plenty of flexibility. I know of nurses who work two 16 hour days (Saturday-Sundays) and have Monday through Friday off. Many use that time to relax and focus on their other hobbies.</p>
<p>Also where did you get the info that nurses have high rates of depression and substance abuse?</p>
<p>Here’s a better question: shouldn’t high school graduates be capable of "thinking critically, writing well, etc? Many of the skills that a liberal arts program, while extremely useful and necessary to society, would be easier to implement (and have wider-reaching effects) if they were focused on in high school.</p>
<p>@pandem. </p>
<p>The short answer is yes. The longer, and more cynical answer is that anyone who can’t think critically probably shouldn’t be in college studying ANYTHING in the first place. There are way too many diploma mills in the US.</p>
<p>I’ve talked to plenty of nurses, and that is one thing they LOVE about their jobs. Plenty of flexibility. I know of nurses who work two 16 hour days (Saturday-Sundays) and have Monday through Friday off. Many use that time to relax and focus on their other hobbies.</p>
<p>Also where did you get the info that nurses have high rates of depression and substance abuse? </p>
<hr>
<p>My wife a nurse, LOVES her job. Sure she gets burned out, but so does everyone else in their job. I work Monday - Friday, and I get burned out too. That’s life. </p>
<p>Also their are many different avenues in nursing. Perhaps an ER nurse gets burned out because of the intense nature of the work, but you could work in an EP lab, working Monday - Friday 8 hr shifts. Or as you mentioned many hospitals have weekend programs, that allow you to work Saturday and Sunday and have off Monday - Friday. They adjust their pay accordingly, so the loss of hours isn’t significant. Most nurses who do that program are parents and it allows them flexibility when raising their children - NO DAYCARE!</p>
<p>Naturally, the majority of my wifes friends are all nurses as well and I’ve never heard any stories about them burning out, at least not any differently than anyone else does at work. Nor have I heard any stories (or seen first hand) substance abuse. Although I was surprised how many nurses smoked cigarettes.</p>
<p>My wifes first job burned her out some. She was fresh out of college and was hired to work in the ICU/Cardio-Therasic (pardon my spelling) unit at one of the premiere hospitals in the country. This was a big deal because that is a very intense unit usually reserved for experienced nurses. She was hired because she had oustanding grades and lots of very practical experience while in school - and she went to a VERY good nursing school, Pitt. She worked 3 nights a week, and did get burned out because of the intensity. However, that was due to the fact that she was really over her head. She was young, still inexperienced (although very experienced for her age), and working in one the most intense environments in a hospital. </p>
<p>However, she did the job for two years then transfered to a unit she liked more. No harm, no foul. That first experience was extremely important and if you ask her know she would go back and do it all over again.</p>
<p>As far as having leisure on your days off, of course - yes you can have leisure. I don’t see a single reason why not, other than you may have to deal with other personal issues like children - which is something everyone with a job deals with. My wife gets 4 days off a week, during that time she usually meets friends for happy hour once a week, works in the garden, goes jogging, ect. Basically the same thing everyone else does on their days off - lives her life.</p>
<p>Remember, nurses aren’t doctors. They don’t have you carrying around a beeper or calling you on your days off. Sure, they might call her occassionally to work, but if she doesn’t want to she juts says no. It’s no big deal. </p>
<p>Some units will have you “on call” one weekend a month or a day during the week. This basically means that you don’t have to come into work, but if they need you, you have to be available to come in. Which basically just means not going out of town and stayng sober, lol. But here is the thing - 75% of the time they won’t call you in, BUT they pay you regardless. So you can be working out at the gym, swimming in your pool, working in your garden, all while being on call, AND YOU’RE GETTING PAID FOR IT! Now, it’s just not your full salary, it’s a smaller percentage (I think she gets $5 per hours), but hey - not bad way to make $50 bucks, right? She can be sleeping in bed and making $5 per/hr - pretty sweet. If you do get called in, typically it’s going to be overtime/time and a 1/2. </p>
<p>The only thing I recommend is do your best to get into a good hospital. Do your research, remember you will have options. Take the time to look into “Magnet Hospitals” or “Magnet Status.”</p>
<p>Long story short, it’s a credential given to hospitals by a nursing assocation. It means they’ve met high standards in their nursing staff, which generally translates into good pay, benefits, ect.</p>
<p>[What</a> is Magnet Status?](<a href=“http://www.nursingadvocacy.org/faq/magnet.html]What”>http://www.nursingadvocacy.org/faq/magnet.html)</p>
<p>Here is a list of Magnet Hospitals:</p>
<p><a href=“http://www.nursecredentialing.org/MagnetOrg/getall.cfm[/url]”>http://www.nursecredentialing.org/MagnetOrg/getall.cfm</a></p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Nurses are 4x more likely to commit suicide: [BBC</a> News | HEALTH | ‘Suicide risk’ for doctors and nurses](<a href=“http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/944503.stm]BBC”>BBC News | HEALTH | 'Suicide risk' for doctors and nurses) (twice as likely as doctors, although the media tends to only report on doctor suicide rates</p>
<p>Substance abuse in nursing is a well-known problem: [Narcotic</a> Use and Diversion in Nursing](<a href=“http://juns.nursing.arizona.edu/articles/Fall%202002/hrobak.htm]Narcotic”>http://juns.nursing.arizona.edu/articles/Fall%202002/hrobak.htm)</p>
<p>I’m not saying there aren’t nurses who love their job and appreciate having a lot of days off. But if you have never done shift work you can’t possible understand how draining and stressful it is. Being on your feet for 12 - 16 hours is tiring under any circumstance, but add in the stress of being responsible for people’s lives, and it is downright exhausting. Plus it is something that is hard to leave at work. I used to work in the medical field and would wake up in the middle of the night worried that I gave the wrong medication to someone, then spend the rest of the night stressing about it. </p>
<p>You very well may love it, but you need to be prepared for how much work, both physical and mental, is involved. I just think your vision of nursing sounded a little romantic and naive.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>You could say that about any job that someone would call rewarding. . . and those stats you brought up can be said about bankers, lawyers and other professions too. Most jobs that pay well are stressful, if you choose a field you love, then it’s more likely that you will be able to live through the hard times on the job.</p>
<p>Just sayin’ bro.</p>
<p>I’m not a “bro” lol.</p>
<p>I would argue that there is added stress in medical fields because you are always aware that even the smallest error could kill someone. You are also going all the time and in constant contact with different people. Bankers and lawyers spend all day talking. Nurses and doctors spend all day taking care of patients. It’s not comparable at all.</p>
<p>It’s an expression btw lol.</p>
<p>I actually read this book called ‘‘how lawyers lose their way’’. They didn’t compare nurses and lawyers but rather physicians and lawyers. Basically it showed the high levels of alcoholism in lawyers as well as the little amount of sleep and other things. It then went on to say however that doctors also have horribly stressful lifestyles too by making a comparison. You might find it interesting (although I can’t be sure).</p>
<p>The point was though that you’re delusional if you think you can get a good job that pays well without a lot of time and effort put into it. And if you don’t have a passion for that field you picked then you will have more stress to deal with.</p>
<p>Somebody asked me if I had any evidence to back up the fact that those who take liberal arts and sciences in undergrad are the ones who get the Nobels, the breakthroughs, the blah blah blahs…</p>
<p>well, here:</p>
<p>[Swarthmore</a> College - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia](<a href=“Swarthmore College - Wikipedia”>Swarthmore College - Wikipedia)</p>
<p>[List</a> of Williams College people - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia<a href=“A%20lot%20of%20liberal%20artsy%20Phds,%20but%20you%20can%20see%20the%20phenonmenal%20Math%20and%20science%20people%20as%20well”>/url</a></p>
<p>[url=<a href=“Davidson College - Wikipedia”>Davidson College - Wikipedia]Davidson</a> College - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia](<a href=“List of Williams College people - Wikipedia”>List of Williams College people - Wikipedia)</p>
<p>Look at the businesspeople.</p>
<p>junhugie…I think it’s dangerous to take examples of people with BAs from schools like Williams and Swarthmore and say that a BA is always a good investment. These are the top schools in which you can get a BA; the students are people who would be successful (most if not all) whatever they do and wherever they are. They can get a BA in poli sci (and found a tech company…i.e. Steve Case) or an econ degree (and found a major shipping company) etc etc. They can also have a super small liberal arts music department and attract and nurture musicians ranging from Sondheim and William Finn to pop superstars Wang Lee Hom. </p>
<p>For your average student, I’d have to agree with many others on this. A technical/vocational degree would be a much better investment. If you can get into a Williams or Amherst, you should feel free to major in whatever you want. Including Art History…because the remarkable alumni network of people in the art world will def give you a significantly better chance of landing into super awesome curating gig. From Random-U in the midwest? Good luck getting people to read your resume unless you’re exceptional (which would mean you would’ve had a good to decent chance of getting into Williams in the first place).</p>
<p>Well, that’s true. I was mostly targetting that towards people here who are absolutely BLASTING the liberal arts…It’s ridiculous -.-</p>
<p>Seriously…this is a discussion, why does it even matter? Each to his own…</p>
<p>people need to stop reading wonder stories about certain kinds of people with certain kinds of degrees getting amazing jobs or fame. They are the smallest minority and are not the norm, so stop using those kind of stories to try to persuade people, you are just being delusional. Just because a famous musician graduated from a certain liberal arts school doesn’t mean that everyone else can hit big like him if they go to the same school. Nothing wrong with dreaming big but choose your major with at least a bit of practicality so you can actually find a job after graduating.</p>
<p>Obviously, there’s a self-selection factor going on here…</p>
<p>Substance abuse in nursing is a well-known problem: Narcotic Use and Diversion in Nursing ~ 90percentgravity.</p>
<p>Of course diversion in nursing will be an issue, they have access to the drugs. Diversion in Academia isn’t an issue because they don’t have that kind of access, see my point?</p>
<p>Anytime someone has access to something profitable, there will be issues. Diversion often stems from prescription drug addiction or just sheer greed, either way it’s really not something a future nurse has to concern theirselves with, as long as they are honest and don’t have a history of addiction. Diversion is also a problem with doctors, pharm workers, and police officers.</p>
<p>Anyways, let’s move on, because for as long as I’ve been around nurses, I’ve never even heard about this being an issue. </p>
<p>I work with attorneys everyday, the stress between Nurse V. Attorney isn’t comparable. Personally, I’ve never met a nurse (and I’m literally surrounded by them) who wakes up in the middle of the night scared or some of the other things you described. Sure, there might be a few occassions where you get nervous about making a mistake, but for the most part - nurses leave their job at the hospital and don’t bring it home. Attorneys, from my experience are pretty miserable and over worked. I mean, you are talking 80 + hour work weeks.</p>
<p>You can make the same arguments for police officers, attorneys, doctors, and anyone who works in a high stress environment - which nursing can be sometimes. However, you have control over what unit you decide to work. Picking a less intense unit solves most of the problems.</p>
<p>Having said that, my wife was worked in ICU and Labor and Delivery, two of the most stressful units there are, and shes only in her mid-20’s, and she hasn’t had any problems, nor do any of her friends. In fact, I’d say they got it pretty cushy.</p>
<p>You can find something to worry about in any profession. Nursing has a very good track record, for various reasons and I encourage the OP to pursue it.</p>
<p>However, has 90 percent gravity stated, always do your own research, but don’t get scared about burn out, it’s really not that significant. People get burned out in every profession, often times it’s because of home life.</p>
<p>“Somebody asked me if I had any evidence to back up the fact that those who take liberal arts and sciences in undergrad are the ones who get the Nobels, the breakthroughs, the blah blah blahs.”</p>
<p>I was asking you to back up the statement that more research scientists come from liberal arts backgrounds than science and engineering backgrounds. However when I asked you to back that up I was looking at Liberal Arts and Science as two different things. If you’re placing Science within Liberal Arts, then I believe it, and they’ll be primarily science majors. That is pretty much irrelevant to the thread though, since Science is technical. </p>
<p>Either way, you didn’t back up the quantitative word “most.” You just gave some.</p>