<p>InOhio, your post, which labels, judges and condemns the values of OP (altho I think you meant me) for being different from your own, couldn't be more appropriate for this thread. Thank you.</p>
<p>I say different strokes for different folks. I don't have a problem with students making a college decision on the basis of religious affiliation at all.
Some kids want a religious campus, some could care less and some do not. I respect that. There is a huge difference in a student making this decision and their parents making it for them.
My own four have chosen a wide varitey to schools for themselves. Catholic, Presbyterian, military and non-sectarian. As a parent, I did what I could to help them choose the right school for them - not for me.
For me, I only used money as a factor in affordability - I never would tell my children that I would not pay for a certain culture on a college campus.
I get that some parents do tho. I have known kids whose parents would only pay for a Catholic college and others who were so "groomed" from infancy they would not consider any other.
I know, also that some parents will only pay for their children to major in certain subjects - as in, "I am not spending my hard earned dollars so my kid can major in History". I suspect this attitude is more unacceptable in certain circles than the issue of religion.
In any case, I did choose to raise my kids in a certain religion. What they do with that as they get older, obviously is up to them. Personally, I wanted my kids to feel like their decision on where to attend mattered and I would never have considered bribing them to make the choice that I want them to make.</p>
<p>When I started my journey with my children, I was not interested in Catholic schools for them. I was also very much against single sex schools. So where did my kids end up for a good part of their education? Single sex Catholic schools. We kind of got backed into the choice, and it worked better than anything else. </p>
<p>There are certain ideologies that can be so offensive and dangerous or out of synch with ones family values that even being exposed to them is not what one wants. I think of the some of the Taliban supported schools in this regard or as Bay mentioned, Nazi schools. WIth some of the very religious schools in this country, or schools with a true specialty bent, it may not be a good match for a student. But I see no problem with sending a student to a school that has a religion as a base. However, to each his own. Don't think, however, that the Catholic schools are MAKING money off of you when you send your kid to such colleges. The full COA does not cover actual COA and there is a good chance a good student will not even be paying that. Some of the more generous merit awards my son got were from catholic colleges. It would have been tough for him to have gotten that quality, amenties at that price anywhere else.</p>
<p>Very interesting thread. I am a Jewish and my husband is Catholic. (Lots of slang names for the kids-- as we do everything at home.) I find it fascinating that ALL of my children attended or are attending Catholic universities. (Ok, put the knife in my heart and twist. LOL) As I look back on what influenced their final decisions, I think that my kids were attracted to the strong sense of community and volunteerism that they found at these schools. They are great fits because that is what we, as parents, stress at home.</p>
<p>I totally agree with you, twokidsatvu. My youngest is a freshman at a Catholic college. She attended a public hs that encouraged volunteer work and felt quite at home in that envrionment. When she looked at colleges she said she was drawn to the Catholic college because of its sense of community and the value it placed on helping others. I think that can only enhance her college experience.</p>
<p>My apologies to the OP, my comments were directed toward Bay. Bay -- I'm not condemning your "values," just your attempts to impose them on your children. There's a difference.</p>
<p>"Rather, to me the issue is whether one can support a certain religion whose beliefs are contrary to their own (or whose beliefs would actually condemn them), through payment of tremendous sums of their money, without feeling like a hypocrite or worse. I don't think I can do it. Perhaps I would feel differently if my kid received a full-ride scholarship or FA, because in that case the money would belong to my kid and not me." Bay, post #26.</p>
<p>Bay, You wouldn't give money to a school whose religion you are repulsed by, but you would TAKE money from them? You better go revisit the definition of the word "hypocrite".....</p>
<p>
[quote]
I find Catholocism at Georgetown to be ever-present, obvious, and offensive.
[/quote]
InterestedMother, your statement baffles me. Did you somehow attend Georgetown without realizing it was a Catholic school?</p>
<p>Are you "offended" when you walk into a shoe store and find shoes? How about grass and trees in the park? If you knowingly attended an R rated movie, would you be offended when the inevitable curse word or sexual situation was shown?</p>
<p>
[quote]
Bay -- I'm not condemning your "values," just your attempts to impose them on your children. There's a difference.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>I always thought it was my job as a parent to instill values in my children, now I find out I am condemnable for doing so.</p>
<p>
[quote]
Bay, You wouldn't give money to a school whose religion you are repulsed by, but you would TAKE money from them?
[/quote]
</p>
<p>mizzou-mom, You quoted my post then you didn't even read it. I said IF MY KID received a scholarship or FA, THEN THE MONEY WOULD BELONG TO THEM, NOT ME. How does that make me a hypocrite?</p>
<p>I have said several times in this thread that my children are free to choose whichever college they desire, but I don't feel I am compelled to finance their choice. I guess that makes me a terrible person in some peoples' eyes, or that I am "imposing my values" on my kids, or that I am a hypocrite if they finance their own education at a school I won't pay for. I don't understand that criticism of me, but fortunately for those who disagree with my approach, you are not at all compelled to follow my lead, and you may rest assured that I will never judge you or condemn you for taking a different approach with your own children.</p>
<p>Bay -- We agree. It is our job as parents to instill "values" in your children --but not when they've become adults. If they've listened to you and rejected your views or, more likely, just aren't as rigid in them -- it's just another signal that it's time to let go. To me, if your kid comes to you with a rational basis for wanting to attend a particular college, what's there not to support, and I'm sure I could find plenty to criticize how any college spends my tuition dollars.</p>
<p>Depends on the religious school. ND versus Liberty U are very different places. I think you have to determine very carefully what the environment is like.</p>
<p>Bay, I have read all your posts. They say YOU are paying for your child's schooling. YOU would not pay for a Catholic education. Therefore, if a Catholic school gave your kid money, it is not really THEIR money as it is replacing YOUR financial debt at another institution. YOU are benefitting, not your child as you said it was YOUR money paying for his education. YOU get to keep your money. The kid doesn't benefit unless HE was paying the bill wherever. It would, in effect, be YOUR money, not his.....Get your stories straight.</p>
<p>
[quote]
How does that make me a hypocrite?
[/quote]
Because you find the school so objectionable that you'd never support it with you money. Yet would take money from this objectionable institution. Whether the scholarship were in your name or your kids' names, it the same thing. You & your family would be receiving financial help from an institution you find objectionable. So your principles have been compromised by money. That's hypocrisy. Plain and simple.</p>
<p>InOhio,
When my kids (or only one so far in college, another in the process), were deciding on colleges, they were 16 and 17 years old. When my oldest sent in her acceptance, she was 17. My next will be the same age. They are not seasoned, experienced adults making a decision about how to spend someone else's $200K, they are kids. Maybe its just me, but it makes a difference to me. </p>
<p>As a practical matter, and as I said before, my oldest did not choose a Catholic college. And yes, her current college is, in fact, her choice, which I whole-heartedly supported. But the OP posed a question, and I answered it in the hypothetical, that yes, I would have trouble paying money to a religious school whose ideology I do not support.</p>
<p>Also, I guess I cannot win here. If I let my kid make his/her own decision with his/her own scholarship or FA loans, I'm still labelled a hypocrite. If that is the case, then should I not allow my kids to attend a school I find objectionable, even if paid for with their own money? Or do I have to pay for the school no matter what it is, because they chose it? What if it is founded on devil-worship? Do I still have to pay?</p>
<p>I have no intention of "taking" money from the Catholic church. If my kids' hypothetical (and it is very hypothetical since it looks doubtful it will ever happen) scholarship to a Catholic school is, in fact, deemed by whomever has the authority to decide that it is, my money, then I will decline it.</p>
<p>
[quote]
I always thought it was my job as a parent to instill values in my children, now I find out I am condemnable for doing so.
[/quote]
Not at all - I live my values and certainly hope they are passed on to my children. I might have instilled my values when they were 8 years old - but I see my job as a educator - to teach them about the world. Good and bad. By the time they are 18 or so - they have developed their own set of values.</p>
<p>I hardly see where one can compare Nazi or Taliban schools to Catholic schools - for one thing I have not heard of any Nazi or Taliban accredited colleges in the US.</p>
<p>For me - as a parent - I willingly give my adult children the gift of higher education to the best of my financial needs. No strings attached. As long as the college is accredited, in the US and I can afford it - they are welcome to attend and major in anything they want. Admittedly, I would not be happy if one picked Oral Roberts or but I would support that informed adult choice.</p>
<p>Bay, you seem to be living in the 50s with your understanding of the Catholic religion. Catholics do not "condemn" people for their beliefs. I have found, however, many religious zealots condemning ME for being a Catholic due to outdated information. The Church of the 2000s is vastly different from that which we grew up in when we were young. And, of course, those in authority would deem it your child's money. That is your out so you don't think of yourself as a hypocrite. You can't deny it is actually saving YOU a ton of money, not your child. They are obviously not going to choose to go hundreds of thousands into debt to go to an institution you would not approve of when they can find hundreds of others that you will pay for. You believe what makes you feel better.....</p>
<p>And, I find it ironic that you singled out the Catholic religion and not any of the evangelical religions whose colleges have strict guidelines and chapel rules. Most Catholic universities are tolerant and "un-Catholic" vs. some of the other religious schools in this country.</p>
<p>Oh, and btw, I assume that you have actually checked out where ALL the colleges your kids apply to/go to invest their monies to insure that none of your beliefs, religious or social are being condemned....</p>
<p>
[quote]
Bay, you seem to be living in the 50s with your understanding of the Catholic religion.
[/quote]
oh he is way before the 50's. He is living in an anti-Catholic bigoted world. </p>
<p>I wonder if/when he gave his kids birthday money or an allowance he supervised them at every store they shopped.</p>
<p>I attended Marquette (Jesuit) in the early 70s. There existed on campus at that time an interesting internal struggle that I am sure had its foundations in the Jesuits' reputation for being liberal thinkers. The joke always was that Jesuits were as far from being "Catholic" as one could be and still technically be Catholic. Their whole methodology for teaching is based on questioning everything and becoming independent thinkers. There was certainly great freedom of thought in the way we were taught but our day-to-day living experience was VERY conservative.</p>
<p>On one hand we still had pretty healthy Religion and Philosophy core requirements, something like 18 and 12 hours respectively. To be fair the Religion requirements even at that time could be satisfied with classes like "Jewish Thought and Practice", "The Protestant Reformation", and others, most of which I managed to take along with a class on "Christian Marriage" where the sexuality portion was taught at night by an MD alum who once the professor left the class began his first lecture with, and this is truly what he said:..."now that he's gone let me begin by telling you that people who practice rhythm are called parents!"</p>
<p>There were no coed dorms, no weeknight coed inter visitation in dorms and what inter visitation did exist was based on "alternating weekends, door ajar, normal room lighting and one foot on the floor"....seriously. This made the majority of students practically run to off campus housing at the end of sophomore year.</p>
<p>On the other end of the spectrum a year or two prior to my starting school there, Marquette made national news ( I remember reading about it in Time) when they hired Dr. Dan Maguire a former Priest and professor of Ethics at Catholic University in DC, who had been fired for leaving the Priesthood and marrying a former nun! It took me four years to get into his class but it was the single best class I took in college. He was and still is an amazing man, not afraid to speak his beliefs (he and Elizabeth Kubler Ross were the two leading authorities on "death and dying" at the time) and the University never censored or censured him while I was there despite the fact that his views were so different from the teachings of the Church.</p>
<p>Having never been particularly devout and now among the great number of "lapsed catholics" I would be afraid to attend or send a child to attend a school with forced religious activities and beliefs. You can get a feel for the atmosphere and level of religious tolerance (if any) from the websites of some of the hard core affiliated religious schools like Oral Roberts, Bob Jones, Liberty etc.</p>
<p>I agree with what many others have said about visiting and not simply crossing a good to great school off your list because they are Catholic or affiliated with any other religion. Most Jesuit schools are going to be on the liberal end of the Catholic schools and will be very welcoming and diverse. As to other Catholic affiliated schools I think it will vary from campus to campus, but in the majority you may be surprised at the level of religious diversity and tolerance that exists.</p>
<p>The reason I focussed on Catholic schools is because they were the only religious ones my kids were interested in. My feelings apply to any college with any ideology, religious or not, that I cannot support. I don't expect you or anyone to pay money to support my beliefs if you do not agree with them. Why am I required to support yours?</p>
<p>Among other things, I raised my kids to believe they can pursue any profession, including the clergy; that their lesbian aunt and gay cousin deserve the same love and respect and destiny as everyone else; that sex is a healthy, natural, beautiful act, both during and before marriage; that divorce is sometimes the correct resolution to a loveless marriage; that birth control pills changed women's lives for the better; that a child brought into this world unwanted is not necessarily better off than one who was never born. I don't expect everyone to agree with me. I don't even consider any of those issues "religious." But I won't pay money to an institution that expressly teaches that all of those values are wrong. Why do you even care if I do or not? And why does that make me a bigot?</p>
<p>Bay is certainly within his/her rights to object to Catholic teachings and not want to sanction them with his/her money, and it doesn't make Bay a "bigot" to do so.</p>
<p>I hate to break it to some of you, but the teachings of the Catholic church are not universally supported, not even by Catholics.</p>
<p>The OP asked a question (which was "Do you find yourself avoid[ing] a college choice based on religion?"). Bay answered it. Yes, it matters to some people. I certainly wouldn't pay tuition at Liberty (not that my kid would want to go there), and I'm well within my right to object to spending my cold, hard cash on a school that teaches or holds values and ideas with which I strenuously disagree.</p>
<p>I wouldn't insist my vegetarian son pay for hamburger with his money; I would expect him to be true to his values, and an excellent way of teaching him to be true to his values is to be true to mine.</p>