<p>What I tried to express in my rambling post was that even in 1970 some, perhaps many Catholic colleges did not teach against the values you (and I) hold dear in the actual classrooms. I think that today, in many cases but certainly not all, Catholic colleges and universities may say one thing in print and publications to keep the Church off their back, but in reality teach quite the opposite on a daily basis. I really believe that most of the Catholic schools are struggling to find a suitable solution to this dilemma that is facing them. </p>
<p>My children were raised the exact same way as yours. My D left a non denominational private high school (by her own choice) to attend an all girl's school run by the Ursuline nuns. It would not have been my choice for her for some of the reasons stated above. She found that in many cases her classmates were much like her and not afraid to take views and opinions that were opposite of what Theology class might have taught. She challenged and debated the hot topics and, at the end of the day, still held true to her core beliefs and actually became a stronger more independent woman as a result.</p>
<p>I am one of the many who fell away because of my disagreement with the teachings of the Church regarding birth control, celibacy and other things but don't believe for a minute that the Catholic colleges have anything left over to send support to the Church itself. I won't give a penny to support the Church. I do give to my Alma Mater.</p>
<p>By the way, I think there is far more hard core Catholicism taught in the elementary and high schools than at the most of the Catholic universities.</p>
<p>owlice - if you were a vegetarian and raised your children to be vegetarians would you allow them to live on campus and eat in the dining hall if meat was served?
Certainly, part of the food bill will be going to buy meat. Even if your child chose not to partake in meat - it would still be offered.</p>
<p>Likewise - if you were a vegatarian and raised your child to be a vegatarian would you only help support them if they promised never to spend the money you give them on meat?</p>
<p>THe whole point is you won't PAY money to an institution that you are offended by, but you will allow them to GIVE you money for your child's education...whether that money is given in your child's name or not, it puts a LOT of money in your pocket.....I don't think you are so set in your ideological ways....</p>
<p>mizzou-mom, I have never considered merit scholarship money earned by my child to belong to me. If that is the case, and using your point of view for the sake of clarifying my position, then I would (as I already stated in a previous post), decline the scholarship money.</p>
<p>Bay, it is your money and your children. As you know, it is your business what rules you have for that. Would you have been as against another religion based school? What about Wake Forest or Elon or any number of schools that are based on a religion? </p>
<p>I find it interesting that you are so adament about not supporting teachings of that sort, when there are so many parents who are against suppoting the liberal part of the liberal arts. Such parents are often mocked by folks like you who are ever so tolerant of the lesbian aunt and gay cousin. It puts you really in the same category as those intolerant people. </p>
<p>Most Catholic colleges teach little or any of the tenets of the religion. Except for the statues and pictures, most of them are like any other university. Maybe a bit more to the right. My son found that some of the ultra liberal universities much more intolerant of ideas that were counter to the direction of the thought trains that were there. And this is a kid who is working for the Obama campaign.</p>
<p>
[quote]
I find it interesting that you are so adament about not supporting teachings of that sort, when there are so many parents who are against suppoting the liberal part of the liberal arts. Such parents are often mocked by folks like you who are ever so tolerant of the lesbian aunt and gay cousin. It puts you really in the same category as those intolerant people.
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<p>Sorry, cpt, I don't understand this. If you clarify it, I will try to respond.</p>
<p>Again, yes, my feelings would hold for other religion-based schools, if their values seriously conflicted with mine. My kids did not look at Wake Forest or Elon, so I cannot speak to them as I don't really know much about them.</p>
<p>I guess all religious schools would be out for your kids, as I can't think of a religion that condones abortion(am I missing one?)....and maybe your kids are not as liberal minded as you and could be seeking a more conservative atmosphere. Being liberal is great, but sometimes kids turn out different than their folks....imagine my shock to find one of my kids is actually a......Republican!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!</p>
<p>Do you mean that there are colleges that have published ideology specifically stating that conservatives' political positions are wrong? If there are any, then I would be against my kids attending them as well.</p>
<p>I'm not. However, I wouldn't buy a fur coat, nor would I buy one for my son (or daughter, if I had one). If my adult offspring chose to spend their own money on a fur coat, that is, of course, their right, but I would not spend my money on one for them.</p>
<p>
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when there are so many parents who are against suppoting the liberal part of the liberal arts.
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<p>Would you insist that they spend their money to support the liberal part of liberal arts if they didn't want to? I wouldn't. If they prefer to send their kids to Liberty or Oral Roberts, it's okay with me.</p>
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I can't think of a religion that condones abortion(am I missing one?)
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<p>Yes. Some religions don't take a position on it, and others consider the right to choose a matter of social justice. The first college I attended had been associated at one time with a church which falls into the latter category, the United Church of Christ, the religion Obama practices.</p>
<p>Interesting topic, and one we may be addressing when S2 starts the college search.
For the record, H is catholic and I am protestant. This has been a huge source of stress for us off and on throughout our marriage. His mother cannot get over the fact that he married a non-catholic, and probably never will. Neither of us are particularly religious, and he hasn't attended church regularly since he was a child, but that doesn't seem to enter her reasoning...</p>
<p>Perhaps because of this or in spite of this I have to keep an open mind about colleges. Fordham is one on our early list. A friend's son goes there, and although they are catholic, she says most of his friends are much more devout than he is, and socially quite conservative. Am glad to see some different opinions here. </p>
<p>FWIW, I would not want to go to a college where a majority of students attend to be among people of their own religion, no matter what it might be. Of course it's impossible to know all the reasons behind peoples' choices, but we live in a largely catholic area, and know many students for whom catholic college is the only option. I think S2 is pretty open-minded, and we try to be too.</p>
<p>Thank you, dntw8up. If nothing else, it is a healthy exercise to be challenged about one's values from time to time. I really appreciate CC for that.</p>
<p>I do appreciate Bay's candor and willingness to be repeatedly confronted in order to convey the point of view. I think the point of the thread is to learn about the thoughts and experiences of people who think differently than each other. I don't think Bay should be chastised quite so much, people may or may not agree with Bay, but I appreciate understanding the thoughts.</p>
<p>Re # 87: Unitarian Univeralism certainly "condones" abortion, to use your terminology. So does reform Judaism, I believe. The UCC generally supports a pro-choice position. </p>
<p>Abortion really isn't an issue. According to Bay's rationale, if you're "pro-choice" you can write the check to the clinic yourself for your daughter's abortion; if you're "pro-life" you can write the check to your daughter who will endorse it to the clinic and you're off the moral hook. See post #11. ..and by the crack about pedophilia...I'm sure Bay did not mean to insuate that the Catholic Church condones pedophilia, but that Bay was opposed with how the church responded to the issue, which...believe me is not a concern unique to Bay, but is also one that has been reflected in the collection plate.</p>
<p>I guess the point of this is that Bay came out with both guns blaring, and should have expected the fallout from his/her post. His/her posts are based upon misinformation about the church and, more importantly, Catholic universities relationship to the church. </p>
<p>If Bay doesn't want to pay tuition to a Catholic school because s/he is anti-Catholic...so be it. It's his/her personal choice. I just don't think s/he should control his/her daughter to such a degree and sell her short. </p>
<p>For the record, son is Catholic and attends a school where the plurality of students are Jewish. I'm sure my tutition check is contributing to several Jewish organizations to allow the students to grow in their faith. Son has only benefited from the diversity and it's money well spent.</p>
<p>Ah, so the faithful, who are unhappy with the way the church responded to pedophilia, are justified in withholding their financial support of the church at the collection plate, but Bay, who (I'm guessing here) isn't a church member, at least of this particular faith, isn't allowed to say that he/she would have a problem with tuition monies going to the church?</p>
<p>Interesting.</p>
<p>And there are many people who, like Bay, disagree with the Catholic church on "divorce, contraception, choice, pre-marital sex, homosexuality, women-in-clergy, and ritualistic behavior in general." And some of them are card-carrying, Mass-attending Catholics. Are Catholics who disagree with the church's stance on, say, contraception and homosexuality, "anti-Catholic"?</p>
<p>It was interesting that there are parents out there who refuse to pay for a college due to historical mission rather than how it is played out day to day in the classrooms and on the campus. Though I did not and will not make restrictions of this kind for my kids' college picks, the thing that gets to me about colleges with overly aggressive religion is the type of student, classes, atmosphere that is there. It would make me uncomfortable, I know, and I would warn my kids about it. I would want them to spend a few days visiting the place because it is so different from the way they live now in terms of attitudes. If they should decide that is what they want, I would let them go ahead and apply, though I would be dubious about the fit. </p>
<p>That's why I mention the ultra liberal colleges as a sort of place that would make some parents pause. Again, there is a extreme in terms of attitudes and lifestyles that may be uncomfortable for my kids. My sons felt that way at some schools we visited. There are some kids who love that atmosphere and thrive there. I don't think the colleges' mission statements reflects this way of life; it is something you have to notice. Some parents are hesitant about sending kids to schools with a large Greek population due to what that does to the college social scene. Others want a guarantee of 4 years in university housing. Many of us have lists of things we want or do not want in colleges for our kids. I've just never known a parent who has out and out banned Catholic colleges for their kids due to church teachings.</p>
<p>Oh, come on owlice -- the issue is control over your adult (or nearly so) kid's choice. If someone wants to withhold money from anything for whatever reason, fine. Just don't use your money to control your kid's informed choice because you have a different set of "values."</p>