Do you have a map?

College Majors Music Major
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<p>ClarinetMom: As a NYer, you should check out NYSSSA (NY state Summer School of the Arts), which is actually 8 different programs thruout the summer. Your D could audition for either Jazz or Orchestra, both held on the Skidmore College Campus in Saratoga Springs. I know the Orchestra is there the same time period as the Philadelphia Orchestra is at SPAC and presents their final concert in the same beautiful amphitheater. You would have a hard time finding a better price for a one month program. Regional auditions are held through out the state in the late winter. My D leaves Sunday for her 2nd summer at the Choral Studies Division. </p>

<p><a href=“http://www.emsc.nysed.gov/nysssa/home.html[/url]”>http://www.emsc.nysed.gov/nysssa/home.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

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<p>musmom2,
My daughter’s friend is going to NYSSSA for voice also. As you know it is held at SUNY Fredonia and the dorm is directly across from my daughter’s. I learned about the program too late so she couldn’t audition this year. Do you know how that program compared to BUTI?</p>

<p>PM me if your daughter wants my daughter’s friends name.</p>

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<p>I can’t really compare NYSSSA to BUTI other than to speculate. I would guess BUTI is more well known and possibly prestigious. Perhaps has a higher performance level since it draws applicants/auditioners from around the country, not just the state. Like you and NYSSSA, we found out about it too late last year to have D apply, and for this summer, she really wanted to return to NYSSSA, so I didn’t push her to try something else- I figured that over the audition season she had enough stress in her life!</p>

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<p>D attended NYSSSA’s orchestral program in Saratoga last summer and is at BUTI this summer. The two programs are more alike than different. BUTI’s orchestra appears to be a notch, but not a very large notch, more advanced than NYSSSA’s. Both have daily three-hour orchestra rehearsals, with chamber music, sectionals, etc in the afternoon. NYSSSA lasts four weeks, BUTI six. Both have a concert every two weeks. D enjoyed/is enjoying both thoroughly – talented peers, great faculty. </p>

<p>One possible point of contrast (I’ll have to let you know how this turns out): Last year at NYSSSA D developed a sore wrist from so much playing. She was given a mandatory two-day complete rest, a series of wrist exercises, and some very focused instruction on her bow hold, which cleared up the problem. This year the same sore wrist is back, and she is still casting around for someone to advise her. (Did she forget about the wrist exercises and the bow hold, you may ask? I will be asking the next time she is in communication.)</p>

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<p>Astermom, Thanks for the info and I hope her wrist feels better. My d is at band camp for 2 weeks and told me she is completely exhausted. I wonder if she could handle 4 or 6 weeks.</p>

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<p>clarinetmom - Thanks, D got an ace bandage and some ice for her wrist and remembered how to adjust her bow grip, and she says the wrist feels better. </p>

<p>I hear you about the exhaustion level. Moving to the longer time seems to work itself out somehow, maybe because everyone there is in the same boat and the group manages to settle on a sustainable pace after a few weeks. You don’t say how old your D is, but if she still has a few high school summers to work with, it can be a nice progression to do first NYSSSA, then BUTI. Many kids in my D’s youth orchestra, which is more or less local to both Saratoga and Tanglewood, take that route. Given a third summer, there are two-week instrument-specific workshops at BUTI that allow players to stay for 8 weeks total.</p>

<p>hornmom - like you, I am an advance planner. I think the map you are striving to create is a great idea. I have to try hard to consider those moments when D announces a change of mind and a new map is required as extra-exciting challenges. It seems clear given what he’s been doing so far that your S will always love music, but don’t discount the academics just yet either. He might discover a love of chemistry at 16 or 17 that will trump music as a career path. This possibility doesn’t change the training you are planning for him now, but it does somehow add a different tint to the map. </p>

<p>I was paging through a magazine the other day and happened on a self-help article about good listening. Here’s a paraphrase (the author is Gail Blanke but I don’t have the exact text anymore): </p>

<p>"Kate turned at the elevator door and yelled, “Isn’t anybody listening to me? I don’t want to be a ballerina!”
“She doesn’t want to be a ballerina,” Danny, our doorman, said.
“I got it,” I said.</p>

<p>I am not in any way thinking of your own ballerina daughter, hornmom, or that you are not listening - I just know I always can use a little refresher listening lesson, and I thought this was funny, so thought I’d share. I hope and trust that none of our children will ever have to resort to yelling in public places to get their message across…</p>

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<p>We had the reverse. DD was headed towards marine biology from the time she could articulate it, including summer camp attendance. Then mid way through Junior year in HS she decided on VP. Screeching halt on the map and change in course direction. Had to learn all about this music business and auditions, etc. She is now in a wonderful BM program. Stay flexible.</p>

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<p>Astermom,
My D is 16, a upcoming junoir and I just got home from picking her up at SUNY Fredonia. One week was Band camp and the next was woodwind camp. She absolutely loved it. She worked with great professors and claims she wants to go back next year. I am going to try and convince her an audition based summer program is probaly a better choice. Do most of these programs take students entering college also or do they stop once you graduate HS?
What part of NY are you from?</p>

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<p>D has friends who are rising college freshmen at both NYSSSA and BUTI this year. Her report from Tanglewood is that she wants to go back next summer before college; in fact, she wishes BUTI <em>were</em> college so she could just stay on.</p>

<p>We’re in the Capital Region of NY.</p>

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<p>We’re on the path! Son has a horn teacher we really like. He knows where he’s going for the summer. He has some goals of performing groups he’d like to audition for. And he has a double horn. He’s decided this will be his last year playing trumpet in jazz band so that he doesn’t mess up his horn embouchure. We’ve also figured out that some of the things that would have been good would have been a waste of money considering the fine teacher he now has. Yippee! We’re following the yellow brick road! Thank you everyone.</p>

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<p>Good luck.</p>

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<p>Sounds like some stream-lining and focus is starting to pay off. This is the age were they need to make some choices, it was hard for both my kids, but once they made their choices, they never looked back and were quite happy with their decisions.</p>

<p>My horn player was at NYSMF in Oneonta (2 week sessions) after 8th grade and Kinhaven (VT) after 9th. Both were good experiences for a rising horn player in that age group.</p>

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<p>Here’s the latest update to our itinerary. Now that S1 is seeing his sister’s road in the professional ballet world he’s realized he needs to put more effort into his academics. He’s decided to be a FreshMore next year rather than continuing with homeschool. He said, “An orchestral musician has to have a degree. I have to go to college. I’ll be miserable if I don’t.” I replied, “You can still homeschool and get into to college.” He countered, “Really Mom, I don’t have the discipline.” So he’ll be doing his freshman year again. One of the positives is that he’ll have an additional year of all state. The path is going well. He’s outgrown his double horn and needs a better/newer one. His teacher is marvelous and he’s enjoying all of his other music classes at the high school. He made states after practicing a total of 2 wks. We were a bit dense on the whole getting the sheet music thing but will be better prepared next time and he’ll get a better chair. Summer programs have been very good and he’s learned a lot. He’s joined the state’s horn guild. We’re still looking for a youth orchestra within an hour’s drive. I know we may have to drive further at some point. Biggest challenge right now is getting a new horn and choosing college sweatshirts. I re-read the previous posts. If you have anything more to add please do.</p>

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<p>Thanks for the update!!</p>

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<p>Hornmom-</p>

<p>One thought i have for you is something that we have sort of learned the hard way. If your son is seriously thinking of going into music, the one thing I would tell you to keep in mindis no matter how good he seems, that that may be a false perception to work on. One of the big shocks for us with our son playing the violin was realizing how different the levels were, and what ‘being good’ really meant. There is a world of music out there that a lot of people, even teachers, are not aware of, about the real level of competition out there. There was a kid who played violin in a youth orchestra, a fairly well regarded one, here in NJ, was always the concertmaster of the various groups as he moved up, had a teacher who pushed him, he entered competitions and won more then a few, etc. Kid and everyone else, including his teacher, thought he was the cats meow. Kid auditioned at Juilliard pre college and was shocked he didn’t get in, his teacher practically had a stroke. Meanwhile, my son’s teacher was on the panel and when my son asked about him, she said he didn’t even get anywhere near the cut off level where there was actual discussion about him, he was that far off. </p>

<p>It varies from instrument to instrument, but I think the one thing I would share is that with music the way it is now, don’t assume what the realities are. We live in suburban NJ, with direct access to NYC, and even the local teachers didn’t understand the real level of music out there, including one of my son’s fprmer teachers who was a musician in a pretty high level orchestra, a principal player.</p>

<p>I think that the model is as I think you mentioned with another child, the world of ballet. It is much the same with music (if we are talking classical music, heading into performace), it is a place where a child has to decide pretty early to get serious and drive towards that goal (and to be fair,it depends on the instrument too; woodwind and brass players, for example, because they start relatively late, as opposed to violin and piano students who start really young) may not quite have to dedicate that early, but given the competition out there (sadly for less and less jobs), the global competition for these jobs, it I think is really important to do as much as early as possible. Ballet students are in the same boat, they start young, and the ones who are going to make it at any kind of level generally get ‘serious’ by the time they are in their tween/early teen years, if not earlier, and go focused on that.</p>

<p>As far as trying to find the best youth orchestra and summer program, I would agree, and also the best teacher you can find. I know it can be hard, we only know what it is like to do all the driving, waiting a whole day while our son is doing various programs, and so forth, it seems endless. I can only tell you we aren’t alone, the level people go with musical children is staggering. There are people who drive their kids 7 hours plus on a Saturday to get their child to Julliard’s pre college program, some who fly in from the west coast each week (I sort of think that is a bit too far, but that is another story), and it is because of the perceived and very real nature of music, that it takes that kind of dedication and push to make it. My son was in a pretty good youth orchestra here in NJ, as I said, but when he got into the New York Youth Symphony he didn’t realize just how different the levels were, it was night and day, same when he started working with a teacher to get into the Juilliard pre c program, and seeing just how different that world is.
I think it is important to find the most high level programs you can, that it is a lot better to be a back seat player in a high level group then be the principal in an easier one, for example, or be in a music festival/camp where the student is not one of the hotshots but the level is higher, rather then be the kingfish in a lower level program, because then the student knows what they have to work towards,whereas being the big fish in the small sea can give them a false impression of where they stand, or not give strong enough impetus to push ahead and work hard. </p>

<p>I will reiterated that it varies with the type of instrument, the violin and piano and cello are loony worlds into themselves, so things do vary a bit, or more then a bit. What I am saying is given the competition and the reality out there, it is better to start as early as possible focusing on that track, and also to try and find the highest level programs possible, to keep the fire going. This is obviously just my experience, so it is only as good as any suggestions.</p>

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<p>Thanks Musicprnt. The comparison between the ballet and music worlds are so close. We live in a town with a ballet residential program. It’s sad to watch every year as those new students come in who were the best at their smaller schools from all over the country arrive and realize that they’re not nearly as good as they thought or were told at home. It is wonderful however to see them grow over the years. One thing that gives me hope is that S1’s teacher does a lot of guesting all over the world, is considered by many the best horn player in the state, and has taught many successful players so I have a lot of faith in him. What S1 does with this opportunity is up to him. We’ve learned with DD that there is very good talent in obscure places. It’s also easy to get under-confident by being out of the talent loop and not realizing where one fits in.</p>