Looking ahead for musician son in HS

College Majors Music Major
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First post in the music major forum. My son is a sophomore in HS and is an accomplished percussionist. He is not sure yet whether he wants to major or minor in music.

Any advice that would be helpful at this point in his education? How should be prepare? Is it worthwhile to take AP Music Theory? What else should he be doing? At this point, this is what he has done:

HS accelerated band
HS wind ensemble (by audition)
HS symphonic orchestra (by audition)
Private youth percussion ensemble directed by well-known percussionist (by audition)
All-Region band (4th chair freshman year; second chair sophomore year; highest score in the state on sight-reading)
All-State band – audition (by invitation) upcoming
One-week percussion camp at a local college
Musicianship elective in school
Private instruction once/week

Any other suggestions? Thank you.

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Well, I thought this video was very thoughtful from a drummer on his thoughts about music major/minor: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SRHBB3ieNUo

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Thanks. I’ll take a look.

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Plans for this summer?

What level is private instructor?

Is there a local youth orchestra?

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His private instructor has a bachelor’s and master’s from Julliard and is a working, freelance percussionist in NYC. He’s about 29.

He is in the percussion ensemble of the local youth orchestra (that’s the “Private youth percussion ensemble directed by well-known percussionist.”) He has the option of playing with the full orchestra, but feels over-committed. He goes to an academically grueling high school.

Ah, summer plans. He is still going to his traditional, all-around sleep-away camp. I tried to convince him to audition for the Tangelwood Institute or to choose another summer music program. Unfortunately, he doesn’t want to go. Maybe he’s not all-in with music. It’s a shame because his talent is there for the taking. He’s been gifted in percussion since he was 3 (not kidding). And even without going to summer programs while his peers did, he still made 2nd chair (of five) in the top-level band (of two) regional band as a sophomore – so that mean’s he’s second of the top 10 HS percussionists in the region. His HS band director said he was only one point behind the person who got first chair.

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In my experience, some of the most talented kids leave high school music band, orchestra and ensembles in favor of higher level performance (and often classes) outside of high school. That depends of course on your location. Are you in or near a city, a university, or a conservatory prep program?

Has he taken any piano? A piano teacher who teaches theory along with piano can be helpful. Conservatory prep classes in theory ( or a local college) can be helpful. Does his high school offer theory? AP music theory won’t mean he can skip theory once in school, but can be one way to learn what’s needed. Theory tests at auditions are for placement purposes, generally, so no need for him to stress.

Has he had any exposure to “new music”, meaning late 20th and 21st century composers? Jazz? is his small ensemble work classical? Does he envision himself in a band, or what are his goals?

You might want to read the essay “Double Degree Dilemma” that is posted above. The author covers many of the options for studying music. Music major in a BM or BA program (BM is approximately 3/4 music, BA is 1/4), music minor, double major, and double degree (BA/BM or BA/MM, 5 years). He can also major in something else entirely and continue with lessons and performance (and still be eligible for grad school).

He can major in music and still have access to all the jobs available to those with bachelor’s degrees, and access to grad school and professional schools like med, law, business or nursing school.

If he has other academic interests, he can still pursue music while majoring in that area. If music is what he loves and wants to study, he can do that in the music-focused environment of a music school or conservatory, or in the broader curriculum at a college or university. The general music major usually includes theory, music history, composition, ethnomusicology, musicology, technology and so on. Every school is different: some BA programs include performance in one way or another. Search websites carefully.

State universities tend to have BM programs available, and if he likes to play in band, those are a great option. A school like U. of Michigan is top notch for music.

Schools like Bard, Oberlin, Lawrence, Ithaca, Tufts/NEC, Harvard/NEC, Berklee/NEC, Rochester/Eastman, Johns Hopkins/Peabody, BU and many others offer the best of both worlds with double degrees.

In later high school, some talented, kids deemphasized academics as priorities but still get into selective schools because admissions appreciates dedication to music and the contributions musicians can make to the mix on campus. For others, it makes sense to keep all options open, as long as the stress is not counterproductive. If your son is overwhelmed he might want to lessen the rigor of a few classes, and/or withdraw from high school music activities, depending on where his own authentic interests lie.

Summer programs can be really helpful in clarifying some of this. BUTI is one program. We always suggest Walden School in Dublin NH, which is focused on composition but has classes during the day on various topics, including new music. Yellow Barn, Bowdoin, Brevard are some others (I haven’t checked these for percussion). You could check and see if the Berklee summer program would suit him.

I just checked and Oberlin has this http://new.oberlin.edu/office/summer-programs/index/percussion/ which could be really amazing for him and open new vistas.

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It is always good to look ahead, and one of the biggest things I recommend with young musicians is exposure to as many performing opportunities as possible, not just because it obviously helps prep for music school, but to figure out if they want to go the music route and if so how. For example, going the conservatory route, a Juilliard/NEC etc, it is pretty much all music all the time (I am leaving out joint programs and the like), there are some liberal arts courses but it is pretty much intensive music. So to see if that is for him, a program like BUTI, or one of the other high level music programs, might give him an idea if he wants to do that (or not). He also might find something out of a program like Interlochen, that is high level music but also maintains a lot of the elements of a more traditional camp, and he might go there and say “you know, I like this balance” and not want the conservatory experience.

In terms of music theory, I highly encourage exposure to it as early as possible. Not on the grounds it will help with the auditon (most programs assume a lot of kids have little to no exposure), but rather that being exposed to it gives the kid familiarity with the concepts and it will be a lot less the Gorgon many kids approach it as. AP theory is not bad, but if the kid is really academically crunched adding a formal course like that might add to his stress, and there are all kinds of self training courses in music theory (there actually is a music theory for dummies, written by a guy at Butler, that is pretty decent,also introduces ear training). It can be very hard for music students to maintain high level music and high level academics as your son is doing, so it may be better not to add to the academic load. The only advantage AP theory gives over other forms of study is if he goes to a school where they have core requirements, AP music credits might work towards fulfilling them. In a music school, AP theory might on the placement test place you out of a semester or maybe 2 of basic theory, but it might not be worth it because music theory is taught differently, on different tracks, at different schools so it may be better to start with theory 1 (all depends).

As far as what he does with his musical gift, that is up to him, it has to be, music teachers are prone to saying “but he/she is gifted, it would be a shame to lose it”, but if they find they don’t want to pursue music that has to be their choice. To me that is just as bad as people telling a musically gifted kid “but you are so good at STEM, you should study to be an engineer or computer science major”. The nice part as compmom laid out, is that he can express that gift many ways, kids go to academic schools and take lessons and do ensembles (many Ivy league schools, for example,. have strong music programs though they don’t offer performance degrees), some kids do the dual degree route (which is hard, very, very hard), others do a dual major (BA music, bachelors in something else), some minor. The difference between a BM (performance degree), BA and minor is in the amount of music you do each day, greatest with the BM, least with the minor.

One thing I try to tell parents of young musicians, looking back, is rather than looking ahead all the time, that it is really, really important to enjoy the path, too, both for the parent and the student. It is the path I think that opens up a vision, whatever you call it, into what the kid wants to do, I have seen far too many kids where they and the parents obsess about the future path and ignore the current one, the kid is doing everything focused on music school admissions (the way some academic kids focus only on what is needed to get into a top level academic school), and more than a few of those kids down the road discover that what they missed are things that would have served them well in deciding what to do:).

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As the mom of a senior who has been lurking here for several years, my best advice is to read this forum as much as you can. Read the stories and the sticky threads and see the advice given, ask questions - there is so much knowledge captured here! By the time he is a senior you will be familiar with the process and what you need to do, which really helps you stay organized and the whole application cycle is at least a little less stressful. I would talk to his private teacher and get a list of colleges/profs his teacher would recommend he look into if he decides to study music in college. Then you can start doing some research on those - see which ones might fit his personal preferences, find out if those percussion profs teach at a summer program, find out which of those schools are likely to end up being affordable if college finances are an issue.

Sophomore year is a great time for parents to try to figure out how much they can afford to pay for college - visit the Financial Aid forum and read, run the FAFSA4caster, run some Net Price Calculators on some schools to get an idea of what schools might expect you to pay. Remember that music merit can be generous at many music schools and NPCs usually do not include music merit so don’t rule out anything based on estimated price unless you also know the school doesn’t give much music merit.

re: AP Music Theory - as compmom says, in most cases music schools do not give credit for the class, insisting that everyone take their own music theory sequence, though some will allow the student to start at a higher level. If a kid has little to no background in theory, though, AP Theory can give them a head start and make college theory a little easier. My son is taking it senior year for that reason, and he likes the class more than he expected. He also took the advice I got here to start piano lessons and his piano teacher is teaching him from a theory perspective.

If you think there is any chance he might study music, don’t load up on APs for junior year, even if he is a strong student and already is taking some APs. APs take up a lot of time that otherwise could be spent practicing and doing other music activities.

As far as summer programs, there are a number of short one or two week programs that you might be able to fit in with his other camp, so do look into them (ask his teacher, too). Camps/institutes/festivals, even short ones, give the student a taste of what it’s like to be immersed in music all the time, playing for hours every day with other strong musicians. A kid considering studying music often will leave a camp with a better idea of whether or not they are interested in full time music study. Summer programs also are great for “sampling” some of the professors he might want to study with. Summer experiences with profs strongly influenced my son’s college list - some he loved, some he liked but didn’t think were the best personality fit for him. The auditioned summer programs also give kids a better idea of where they stand on a national level relative to their peers. If your son won’t budge on going to one this summer, perhaps at least identify some summer programs of interest and maybe make a deal with him to attend at least one the summer between junior and senior year if studying music is still a possibility.

As you begin college visits, try to arrange a music school tour as well, and (in junior or senior year) a sample lesson with the professor. Some schools make that easy to set up online, for others you may need to call. We found music school tours more helpful and relevant than general campus tours. In several cases my S was turned off by the campus tour (often due to the tour guide) but then the music school tour put it back on his list.

re: compmom’s note about many kids leaving HS music programs for more rigorous extracurricular ones…she is right for some areas but that definitely depends on where you live. We have strong elite extracurricular music programs in our metro area but almost all of them require that you be an active member in your HS music program as well, because they want to keep the local HS music programs strong. And most of those HS’s require that those in the top wind ensembles do marching band, too, so school band does get to be a big time commitment. Worth checking policies.

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Not diminishing his accomplishments, but the reality is that pretty much every music student at the collegiate level were All-State musicians, first chair in their HS ensembles, etc. They are nice accolades but won’t distinguish him from other music applicants all that much. Unlike most majors where it may be helpful to have a strategy including course rigor, test scores/GPA, extracurriculars, etc., music admissions are pretty straightforward. It’s all about the audition.

I remember asking my son’s private teacher about his potential as a professional musician, his response was, first and foremost, it depended on whether he would be happy practicing 2-3 hours or more a day, every day. It really has to be something that the student wants to do. In HS, that kind of commitment generally means sacrificing other things, possibly even other high school classes.

Summer music programs are good at seeing where you stand at a national level.

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classicalsaxmom, glad you brought up the financial side of things!

In our state, if you participate in those district or state competitions, I think you have to be in your high school program. But again, many of the talented kids I know don’t do those competitions. In my area, which may be different than many others. And percussion may have different priorities too.

We know some percussionists who are doing interesting work in “new music” aka contemporary classical, which is one reason I thought of Oberlin for a summer program.

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Thank you all for your feedback. Very helpful. @ScreenName48105 Yes, I understand your point that my son’s accomplishments are not yet distinguishing.

At this point he’s conflicted between academics and music. He is very strong academically and doesn’t want to forgo challenging academic classes. He’s already regretting that he passed up the opportunity for a history AP class this year (sophomore) in favor of a two-semester musicianship class (which he says in incredibly easy and gets As with little effort). He took musicianship because it’s a prereq for AP Music Theory in his school. So now he thinks he will have “wasted” his time if he ends up not taking AP music theory in favor of something like AP US Govt and Politics. FWIW, he wouldn’t be choosing AP MT to get out of the requirement in college – he’d be taking it because a) he thinks it’s interesting, and b) to distinguish himself from the typical competitive-college applicant.

If he were to pursue music in college, I very much doubt it would be a BM. A conservatory is out of the question at this point. At the most it would be a BA in music, with the option of pursuing some kind of career in the industry or not at all and having the degree serve the same purpose as any other liberal arts humanities degree, like philosophy or history.

QUESTION: In the case of a BA in music, does the student have to be admitted into that major from the outset? Or can that major be selected once admitted to the college, just as with any other major? What about a minor?

By the way, his percussion ensemble director – who lives and breathes percussion 24/7 – gives this advice: “If you can imagine having a career in anything else besides music, don’t pursue a career in music.” He says this not to discourage students, but because he thinks that the dedication it takes requires the individual to feel in his bones that music is absolutely the only possible thing he can/want to do.

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More questions: Is orchestral percussion a competitive “instrument” numbers-wise? Does he have to specialize in one aspect of percussion (e.g., battery, mallets, timpani, etc), or does he have to excel at all of them equally? He wanted a marimba for his birthday, and we got him one. He’s a bit more skilled in snare and timpani, but is catching up on marimba.

What is the career outlook for a percussionist? Is it recommended that an orchestral percussionist also learn how to play a drum set?

As for piano, he did take just a handful of piano lessons. But he can just play it on his own. I have no idea how he does it, but he just sits down and plays. Not at an advanced level, but, I’d say, at the level of a typical intermediate student-player. Not reading music, but just improvising whatever sounds good to him.

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For the pre-AP MT class, he could review the “sunk cost fallacy”.

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My son graduates in May with a B.M. Percussion performance/ Music ed from Eastman. He is taking auditions for his M.M. in Jazz drumset. Some kids play both some don’t. He concentrated on is mallet playing in HS. He was also accomplished on timpani and snare. He studied with one college professor and 2 professional orchestral percussionists. Both were timpanists but both played drumset. Youth orchestra and summer orchestra camp. You kind of need an idea of the type of program you’re looking at in order to start the path of preparation.

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At this early stage in the process I would not close any doors academically or musically. Without knowing your financial profile or your child’s academic profile it would be hard to make recommendations. For one family a $30,000 net annual cost for college would be a fabulous outcome, and for others that would be disastrous. College admissions for Music if he pursues it as a performance major will be competitive and outside of conservatories academics count especially for money. If you are a full pay then merit is key, or if calculated financial aid is big, then perhaps a school that meets need is key.

At this point you know your child really likes music. Without the dedication and devotion that a competitive summer program admisssion and participation would entail you do not know whether he loves music. Those programs will surround him mostly with kids who love music. Which then can possibly lead to a music performance major in college - an indication he wants to live Music.

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Some advice from a parent on the other end…try to be in the present and not assume to much about the future. The way our high school and college system is set up it is easy to get caught up in the idea that the college application process is going to set your child on some golden path to success. Whether your student goes to a conservatory, small liberal arts school, ivy league school, state school, even community college is not nearly as important to their future success as what sort of person they are. Students are so focused on pleasing parents and teachers with their achievements and accomplishments who do not spend time getting to know themselves, their likes, their dislikes, their passions, their strengths, their weaknesses, and their personality are more likely to crash and burn than students who graduate mentally healthy and self-aware.

Young adults who are given the gift of time and space to find their own way often have a way of landing right where they belong. It sounds like your son is excited about learning and the world. PLEASE PLEASE DO NOT DO ANYTHING TO JEOPARDIZE that so he can get into a good college. Where a student goes to college is much less important than where somebody goes to graduate school. I know a young man who did not go to conservatory and majored in biochemistry in college but then applied to NEC for a masters in Jazz drumming and is now a working musician. My own daughter wanted to be an actress/dancer and went off to conservatory for theater and movement and is now a nurse practitioner. This is the child who was so excited she would not have to take any science classes her senior year in HS. Trust me I did my share of laughing as she struggled through Organic Chemistry and statistics class for researchers. I have another son who failed Algebra 2 FOUR times (he had a complex set of learning differences) but is now a mathematician getting a PhD in mathematical biology.

I don’t put a lot of weight on AP classes. So much depends on who the teacher is. A good Honors class can be a lot better than a badly taught AP class. AP history is a lot of memorization and sadly not nearly as much critical thinking. My own daughter hated AP US history because of that and wishes she had taken honors history instead.

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I like the comment about love vs. like! Music is a TOUGH field so if your son isn’t in LOVE with pursuing music, don’t push it. Also, he should make sure to take the level of high school rigor he is comfortable with so that admittance to schools he may be interested in will still be possible. I emphasize that he should LOVE music!!! Sounds like your son may just want music as a hobby, which is fine. I do recommend a summer music program at a college/conservatory as it may provide some clarity.

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Are there any one- or two-week percussion summer programs (i.e. BUTI percussion workshop or Interlochen percussion institute) that would fit your son’s camp schedule? As others have said, there’s nothing like full immersion to help your son decide whether he’d consider getting serious about music. My daughter isn’t a percussionist (oboe), but we’ve definitely found that these types of programs give a lot of bang for the buck, both in terms of time and money.

Sounds like your son’s private teacher is well suited to advise him about where to concentrate his efforts and time. Orchestral percussionists do a lot of thumb twiddling between brief intervals of playing, so I can see where YO might not be an appealing option for your son. Orchestral mileage is considered absolutely essential for many instruments. I would trust your son’s teacher on that one. All-state type activities don’t tend to super helpful for music majors, or particularly edifying, so if he doesn’t have his heart set on those, that’s one thing you can cut out and recoup some time.

From what I’ve observed, percussionists tend to be a little later to decide to go all-in than other instrumentalists. Not that you should push him if it turns out not to be his thing.

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Interesting. His private teacher (Julliard BM and MM-is that a thing? MM? Anyway, a master’s) said that he himself was just a normal (but good) percussionist in the HS band until he happened to get into BUTI. After that summer he was hooked. Now he’s fully ensconced in the NYC musician culture and is a working musician. Didn’t seem too hard for him. He just jumped right in after college. He always has gigs – opera, Broadway sub, etc.

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Stacjip always give very wise advice.

Have you checked which student your son resembles in the Double Degree Dilemma essay posted above? I think he closely resembles one of the examples.

I can say from experience that even the most selective colleges may be interested in a kid committed enough to music to skip some of the usual “rigor” in a high school curriculum. Not saying no AP’s but fewer, and even some subjects on a different track (honors) in the context of time spent outside of school on music, depending on what that time is spent on of course

A music major in a BA program will often be chosen formally at the end of sophomore year though there are introductory classes in the sequence for music, from the start. Still, plenty of time to explore. BA programs usually have no auditions for admission or for the major but will have auditions for ensembles, orchestra and so on. Some classes will have performance aspects and often credit is given for lessons and performance as well.

Just want to repeat Oberlin has a percussion institute in the summer too : )