<p>^^i agree with alexx
Infinite_Truth...who r u to call yourself superior to anyone who does drugs?</p>
<p>Alex, I completely agree with you on everything that you wrote.</p>
<p>^ I too, generally agree with you. People need to learn their limits.
I have never done drugs or alcohol, but if I judged everyone who did, I would have no friends. I guess that's a lie because my friends don't do anything either, but my point is, you should judge someone based on whether they are a good person or not, and I know there are a lot of good people out there who drink and there are a lot of bad people who don't. Someone isn't automatically bad because they disagree with you on an issue or participate in activities that you don't personally like.</p>
<p>i recently moved and found that the people in my new area smoke and drink like there is no tomorrow. the people where i used to live almost never did (with an exceptional few)</p>
<p>when i first learned of some of my friends drinking and smoking i was in shock because i wasn't really used to it. but now i am and as long as they do not try to involve me, i do not care. it's their choice, their body, their life- not mine</p>
<p>Drugs can actually F--- you up real quick.
My Uncle started in high school, the 4th time he smoked he saw 'a wall fall down on him'.
he went on to do more crazy things, and congrats to him, he is schizophrenic now.
What is more so, Infinite truth has the right to feel what she (is that right? or are you a he...LOL) wants. If she is wrong to say she is superior, you are wrong to say she is wrong for calling herself superior.
What is more so, drugs are against the law because for a reason, logical or not, your lack of restraint is reflected in this. You cannot control yourself to say 'no', positive people have been trying to engrave the fact that drugs are bad, but you are still 'un-smart' <em>cough</em> enough to say yes.
oh well aren't you just a bada**. It shows your lack of individuality, and because it feels good make it right?
I've read some of ya'lls posts and some of them are very contradictory.
Some of you make it blatantly obvious you are on the stuff.
whether the drug was outlawed for practical proposes or not, the fact that you were weak enough to give into peer pressure and then put yourself into denial that its not that big of a deal.
chances are that the drug was outlawed for a reason, and even if the dangers are exaggerated (which I do not doubt they are), the government has the best interest in us as the population and the nation's future at large.
I am not one to tell you what to do, as I've never tried, but to lie and say it is not a big deal or it is ok in moderation, but also saying it is bad because, you, yourself are in denial would be misleading and hypocritical.</p>
<p>Marijuana should not be illegal. We spend billions of dollars each year prosecuting people for possession, dealing, etc. when we could actually be making money off it. Marijuana should be treated like cigarettes and made available but heavily taxed. In addition, there should also be a general campaign to educate people about marijuana addiction, which is comparable to any other psychological addiction, so that people can use it responsibly. Lastly, something would have to be done to make sure that we don't encourage farmers to stop growing food and start growing marijuana instead.</p>
<p>No, I am not in favor of legalizing marijuana because I am a pothead. In fact, I am against smoking pot. However, I care more that we are wasting money and resources when we could be making money. Why do we spend 30+ billion dollars on marijuana-related things? Why are we encouraging this product to be sold unregulated? Does America not realize that by making marijuana illegal we are giving incentives to people to deal drugs and encouraging organized crime?</p>
<p>
[quote]
My Uncle started in high school, the 4th time he smoked he saw 'a wall fall down on him'.
[/quote]
What exactly was he smoking? I'm sorry for your uncle and I, too, have friends who went down the same path. It's never easy watching someone close to you spiral out of control. But like I said, moderation is the difference between people who can control themselves and those who get lost in drug use.
[quote]
Infinite truth has the right to feel what she (is that right? or are you a he...LOL) wants. If she is wrong to say she is superior, you are wrong to say she is wrong for calling herself superior.
[/quote]
All right. So basically, (s)he can think she's superior and I can think (s)he's foolish for thinking so. According to your logic, we both have a right to our opinions and I don't see what the problem is.
[quote]
What is more so, drugs are against the law because for a reason, logical or not, your lack of restraint is reflected in this. You cannot control yourself to say 'no', positive people have been trying to engrave the fact that drugs are bad, but you are still 'un-smart' <em>cough</em> enough to say yes.
[/quote]
Drugs aren't illegal to test people's willpower. I've lived in parts of the world where they were legal, and over there they don't seem to think think drugs are bad in moderation. I guess the US is just so much smarter than the rest of the world (I'm sure they would agree). I'm ready to admit a certain lack of restraint, but again, it's not an entirely new concept that people choose to self-indulge. Bringing back that stupid bacon cheeseburger analogy, everyone has a lack of restraint in some ways. Would you look down on overweight people for not being in shape? I mean, they've heard the dangers of diabetes and heart attacks just as often, if not more often, than the effects of drugs. At this point, 66.6% of Americans are overweight. What's wrong with them, right? Maybe you should start a tirade about how they're lazy and un-smart, too. But chances are you won't, because there's no anti-fat-people mentality and it would just be plain rude. I'm only asking for the same courtesy of not being judged so quickly.
[quote]
oh well aren't you just a bada**. It shows your lack of individuality, and because it feels good make it right?
[/quote]
Trust me, love. I'm the last person to proclaim what a bad--- I am, though I'm flattered you'd think so. I guess people who think drugs are bad are such individuals themselves, especially when they band together with the same arguments. Whether or not it's 'right' is a matter of opinion. I'm not trying to get anyone into it, nor do I affect people when I am. Most people are under the impression that drugs are done for no reason, when the reason is very simple, like every other vice: they feel good.
[quote]
whether the drug was outlawed for practical proposes or not, the fact that you were weak enough to give into peer pressure and then put yourself into denial that its not that big of a deal.
[/quote]
Oh, please. My parents am aware I do it from time to time, their only requirement is that I do it safely (yes, there is such a thing). I mean, if you would rather support the parents who have that strict anti-drug mentality like you, then I guess you would rather kids do it under peer pressure in god-knows-where. Drugs don't take over my life. I'm going to a very good school next year, and in high school I've had good grades, good friends (most of them don't even do drugs/alcohol) and healthy hobbies. I guess if a few moments of self-indulgence make me weak, I'll take that label and move on to what I would still imagine to be a good life with a bright future.
[quote]
chances are that the drug was outlawed for a reason, and even if the dangers are exaggerated (which I do not doubt they are), the government has the best interest in us as the population and the nation's future at large.
[/quote]
Yes, and I'm trying to say that sometimes laws are strange. And it's not even the law that's bad, it's the mentality it's causing people to have. When I was in Berlin, the drinking age was 16 but nobody cared if you had alcohol at 14 or 15. Would you say their government was completely un-interested in Germany's future at large? No. They have a different way of running things, and it doesn't necessarily make it bad.
[quote]
but to lie and say it is not a big deal or it is ok in moderation, but also saying it is bad because, you, yourself are in denial would be misleading and hypocritical.
[/quote]
Again, I don't see how it's misleading or hypocritical. I think my responses so far have been well-written and clear. I'll repeat: it's not a big deal when done in moderation. When not done in moderation, it's bad. I don't see how this statement is flawed. </p>
<p>Alex</p>
<p>I don't really care about people drinking in moderation, but I tend to question their judgement if they do harder drugs than weed, like coke.</p>
<p>I find it amazing how Alex can take exactly what I'm thinking but make it sound so much better.</p>
<p>
[quote]
But you're not f--- with your body unless you do a ridiculous amount, and that's true of any vice. Eat enough double bacon cheeseburgers and you'll end up with high cholesterol and increased chances of heart attack (among other problems), but I doubt one here and there would kill you. And that, like drugs and alcohol, have a reason - they feel good. It's up to that person to control how much they consume and sometimes choices are made for the worse. But you wouldn't go up to that person eating a cheeseburger along with fries and that giant milkshake with the line "You're f--- with your body for no reason."
[/quote]
</p>
<p>That logic is interesting yet flawed. Cheeseburgers and milkshakes have nutritional value, just very very very very low relative to other items. You still get calories from fast food. Having three steakhouse burgers in one sitting by itself is not going to cause you to crash into my car.</p>
<p>
[quote]
Cheeseburgers and milkshakes have nutritional value, just very very very very low relative to other items.
[/quote]
Yeah, no doubt that a cheeseburger has some nutritional value, but the point was still, and always has been, moderation. I'm not referring to idiots who drink tons of alcohol and decide to take a road trip. Should I change the analogy to soda, which has *no *nutritional value? Having three steakhouse burgers isn't going to cause anyone to crash into your car. Having a pack of cigarettes in one sitting wouldn't do that, either. Yet why is one judged harshly for being a weak victim of peer pressure?</p>
<p>A few calories don't make the argument flawed. Saying a cheeseburger is 'physically healthier' because it contributes some nutritional value is like saying marijuana is 'emotionally healthier' for possessing pain suppressing attributes. </p>
<p>Alex</p>
<p>
[quote]
That logic is interesting yet flawed. Cheeseburgers and milkshakes have nutritional value, just very very very very low relative to other items. You still get calories from fast food. Having three steakhouse burgers in one sitting by itself is not going to cause you to crash into my car.
[/quote]
This logic is flawed too. You crash your car because you lose control of it, someone cuts you off, etc. I am pretty sure that there is no substance out there that actually causes you to crash your car.</p>
<p>Anyways, this debate is pointless. Marijuana should be legalized. Alcohol is ok. Cigarettes are ok. Crack, heroine, meth, etc. should remain illegal for obvious reasons. (I do not think anyone was advocating to legalize any of these substances.)</p>
<p>
[quote=]
What exactly was he smoking? I'm sorry for your uncle and I, too, have friends who went down the same path. It's never easy watching someone close to you spiral out of control. But like I said, moderation is the difference between people who can control themselves and those who get lost in drug use.
[/quote]
Marijuana, Moderation my foot...he wasn't a chimney. He is frowned upon on in My family, I don't know him too well, he gone bankrupt several times. If you have close friends who have done the same, then why the heck do you promote drugs?????</p>
<p>
[quote=]
All right. So basically, (s)he can think she's superior and I can think (s)he's foolish for thinking so. According to your logic, we both have a right to our opinions and I don't see what the problem is.
[/quote]
Thank you :D</p>
<p>
[quote=]
Drugs aren't illegal to test people's willpower. I've lived in parts of the world where they were legal, and over there they don't seem to think think drugs are bad in moderation. I guess the US is just so much smarter than the rest of the world (I'm sure they would agree). I'm ready to admit a certain lack of restraint, but again, it's not an entirely new concept that people choose to self-indulge. Bringing back that stupid bacon cheeseburger analogy, everyone has a lack of restraint in some ways. Would you look down on overweight people for not being in shape? I mean, they've heard the dangers of diabetes and heart attacks just as often, if not more often, than the effects of drugs. At this point, 66.6% of Americans are overweight. What's wrong with them, right? Maybe you should start a tirade about how they're lazy and un-smart, too. But chances are you won't, because there's no anti-fat-people mentality and it would just be plain rude. I'm only asking for the same courtesy of not being judged so quickly.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>If a fat person does drugs, they can die, in an anorexic person does drugs...they too can die... if a fat person eats a cheeseburger...they can die (and unlike drugs not immediately...or OVERDOSAGE, you can't overdose on Cheeseburgers and die 5 minutes later) but going back to your moderation...oh yeah we both knew people who went crazy even when they use it in moderation. the laws have nothing to do with restraint, but it reflects you as a person, it screams "I couldn't help but take a puff/sniff/whatever because my wacko friends told me to".</p>
<p>
[quote]
Trust me, love. I'm the last person to proclaim what a bad--- I am, though I'm flattered you'd think so. I guess people who think drugs are bad are such individuals themselves, especially when they band together with the same arguments. Whether or not it's 'right' is a matter of opinion. I'm not trying to get anyone into it, nor do I affect people when I am. Most people are under the impression that drugs are done for no reason, when the reason is very simple, like every other vice: they feel good.
[/quote]
I understand why you're flattered, but honestly... Most 'bada--s are wannabes (I'll admit I'm one of the wannabes)...
I know they're supposed to feel good, I won't say I know they do as I've never tried anything except alcohol. Don't get me wrong I'm not trying to tell you to stop, I would be the last person as I have too many friends who are already on crap like this. But I sure hope you don't mind giving up a few years of your life. If you have kid what will they say? What will you tell them? thats its ok used in moderation and they shouldn't eat cheeseburgers??? yeah right!</p>
<p>
[quote]
Oh, please. My parents am aware I do it from time to time, their only requirement is that I do it safely (yes, there is such a thing). I mean, if you would rather support the parents who have that strict anti-drug mentality like you, then I guess you would rather kids do it under peer pressure in god-knows-where. Drugs don't take over my life. I'm going to a very good school next year, and in high school I've had good grades, good friends (most of them don't even do drugs/alcohol) and healthy hobbies. I guess if a few moments of self-indulgence make me weak, I'll take that label and move on to what I would still imagine to be a good life with a bright future.
[/quote]
I am anti-drug, I can understand people who are pro-drug...this is one of the few views I have that is totally for or against something.
I can't speak for your parents, I really can't. But Honestly...I bet they're crying inside. When my uncle smoked the first time. he came home and told everyone, the whole family...no one stopped him, my grandma(who happens to be a very 'active' <em>cough</em> person and a heavy drinker) mentioned how she didn't do anything. but she was dying inside. I know that I won't change your mind, and so do parents. It sort of like you a begger(you're parents are the beggers) asking for a dollar(in this case the dollar represents the discontinuation of drugs), a person(you are this person) offers you 50 cents (and this is them asking you to do it in "moderation") and only so...take it or leave it no more no less....what is the begger going to do? Probably take the 50 cents...
although, I can't say that these are your parents...</p>
<p>
[quote]
Yes, and I'm trying to say that sometimes laws are strange. And it's not even the law that's bad, it's the mentality it's causing people to have. When I was in Berlin, the drinking age was 16 but nobody cared if you had alcohol at 14 or 15. Would you say their government was completely un-interested in Germany's future at large? No. They have a different way of running things, and it doesn't necessarily make it bad.
[/quote]
no...they're people who do care...and believe strongly in that these kids drinking at 14 and 15 should be punished... not everyone in Germany didn't care, just like some of the people here want certain drugs legalized... msot people probably did care they just aren't passionate, motivated, or they just gave up. The way you describe it it sounds like everyone was doing it, and when they whole(at least a good chunk, you know what I mean) population does it people are less inclined to care especially after if generations of this happening. I also think Germany is a perfect example...Prostitution is legal there, they sure sound up to the 'American' standard... In China during the opium war, they cracked heads when people did opium (hey!!!! the US isn't the only country who thinks drugs are bad!!!!! hmmm, i guess they're not soo good for you) and while it was brutal it worked. </p>
<p>
[quote]
Again, I don't see how it's misleading or hypocritical. I think my responses so far have been well-written and clear. I'll repeat: it's not a big deal when done in moderation. When not done in moderation, it's bad. I don't see how this statement is flawed.
[/quote]
uhh...your telling people it is OK to do drugs...</p>
<p>edit: Of speaking of Germany...did you know a couple of people died not too long ago...because of drugs...although it wasn't a direct cause of drugs...they had lead poisoning...they investigated it more and found VISIBLE lead on the leaves....it turns out the drug dealers wanted to charge more for less...so they sprinkle some lead, so thats another reason not to do them. Because drug dealers are the saints of the earth...</p>
<p>yes .</p>
<p>Everyone judges people. And everyone is entitled to think they are morally superior to someone else. Being a relativist is nothing but inefficent and blatantly useless. I do consider myself morally superior to someone who does cocaine and doesn't want to quit [not that he can't, but that he doesn't want to]. Don't you consider yourself morally superior to a Nazi? I sure do. There are scum on the planet, and pretending that everyone is happy and nice is called being naive. </p>
<p>Even our governments determine what human beings are worthwhile and who is a piece of crap. We put the pieces of crap in jail or simply execute them. The US government considers hard-drug users scum, and punishes them accordingly for acting so pathetically.</p>
<p>All right, it looks like I'm going to have to take you through this again.
[quote]
Marijuana, Moderation my foot...he wasn't a chimney. He is frowned upon on in My family, I don't know him too well, he gone bankrupt several times. If you have close friends who have done the same, then why the heck do you promote drugs?????
[/quote]
Because the friends I know didn't exercise moderation. In the end they couldn't control their habits and ended up losing control of themselves. You say yourself you don't know much about your uncle, I doubt you even understand his circumstances outside of what your parents told you. I'm not exactly promoting drugs here, by the way. Like I've said many, many, many times before, I don't try to get people to do them, because it really does take a strong person to be able to get out (I'm not bragging that I'm strong, but my parents have taught me from an early age to exercise caution and as a result, I can). The only thing I'm doing is trying to let the other side know that not all drug users are bad, and that not all drugs are as dangerous as most people make them out to be. I'm battling automatic judgment knowing I won't change your mind, but I'm hoping to at least give you a little understanding of how the other side isn't just full of hedonistic slobs with no ambitions in life.
[quote]
oh yeah we both knew people who went crazy even when they use it in moderation.
[/quote]
Actually, I don't know anyone who went crazy when exercising moderation. Cheeseburgers don't have an immediate effect, but that doesn't change the fact that long-term overeating and obesity pose life-threatening health risks. Just because they're not immediate (moderate drug use isn't immediate either), they're smarter? Both end up shaving a few years off your life. Heck yeah, I'll try to stop my kids from chugging McDonald's if they're overweight and their health is compromised, but after a certain point there's not much anyone could do. Which paints the principle as a whole, really: a parent's job is to help a child learn self-control, but it's ultimately up to the kid how he wants to live. So you teach him how to eat healthy from the start and it'll lessen the chances of him having weight-related complications later in life. Same principle applies to drugs and alcohol (especially since you can't deny that it's becoming more and more common). You teach him how to be safe and exercise moderation from an early age, it'll lessen the chances of him going buck-wild after he leaves home.
[quote]
I can't speak for your parents, I really can't. But Honestly...I bet they're crying inside.
[/quote]
Yeah... I'll tell them how sorry I am even after they, themselves, introduced me to it in the first place. My mom gave me my first joint and told me, "I'll let you try this if you promise to be safe about it." My dad and I smoke cigarettes on the porch together. That's how their parents brought them up, and don't you dare call them stupid parents. They're not crying about how I started using drugs (that would be hypocritical), they're actually happy I have the brains not to let it get out of control. And because this is out in the open, we can talk about *any*thing. We're a very close family.
[quote]
I also think Germany is a perfect example...Prostitution is legal there, they sure sound up to the 'American' standard...
[/quote]
Wait, what? Like I said, I've lived in those places. People there aren't so adamently against it, and it's not because they've been beaten down by prospects of degeneration. Trust me, they're not tolerant of alcohol because they have no choice. Are you calling Germany morally inferior to the 'American standard'? Go and see for yourself. Definitely not true.
[quote]
In China during the opium war, they cracked heads when people did opium
[/quote]
...where do you think I even tried hallucinogens for the first time? I don't know what part of China you're from and I doubt you were alive during the Opium Wars (I confess, I haven't been to all of China, nor was I alive 150 years ago), but the younger people there don't seem to care as much. I don't know if it was because I was living in a big city, but my cousins were all active and none of their lives were shattered dramatically by a little self-indulgence here and there. Same as in the Philippines when I was visiting. Maybe I've just been living in the wrong places but, even then, comparing the US to China is a much bigger cultural difference than comparing it to western Europe, which is why I've been using the latter as a more prominent example.
[quote]
uhh...your telling people it is OK to do drugs...
[/quote]
I don't know, ChaiMex. I'm really trying to keep up and understand your accusations, but they're just... wrong. In your deep and penetrating analysis of me and my family life you've come up with the wrong conclusions, along with the conclusions regarding places I, personally, have lived in. </p>
<p>Alex</p>
<p>P.S. I would just like to make it known that no, I'm not a big fan of 'harder stuff' such as cocaine or hallucinogenics. I tried them a long time ago, that's all. So you guys don't think I'm a crackhead or anything, lol.
[quote]
I do consider myself morally superior to someone who does cocaine and doesn't want to quit [not that he can't, but that he doesn't want to]. Don't you consider yourself morally superior to a Nazi?
[/quote]
Cocaine user... Nazi. Cocaine user... Nazi. Somehow the two don't seem related at all, not even by principle. Sure, I feel bad for the addict who can't stop and does all sorts of things to get what he wants, but that's a different case entirely. For the most part, I'm talking about recreational use, which still relies on moderation (I can imagine ChaiMex cringing, lol... trust me, I'm tired of that word too).</p>
<p>After reading all of my stuff on this thread, would you consider me inferior? I self-indulge once in a while, but so what? I go on CC in my spare time, for goodness sake. I can't change your mind, but hopefully after this you won't judge someone who 'self-indulges' once in a while the same way you would judge the 'scum' you talk about.
[quote]
Even our governments determine what human beings are worthwhile and who is a piece of crap. We put the pieces of crap in jail or simply execute them. The US government considers hard-drug users scum, and punishes them accordingly for acting so pathetically.
[/quote]
Anyone else want to take this one? My fingers are tired from typing.</p>
<p>Alex</p>
<p>P.S. Sorry, sorry! I know I'm getting carried away with these jumbo-long responses. So I'm going to withdraw from this argument unless one of my points is challenged. x)</p>
<p>
[quote]
well do you judge these kids?
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Yes. But I'm a hypocrite and I realize that, though it's not intentional. </p>
<p>The only time it really bothers me is if someone is disturbing me through their drug/alcohol use by acting obnoxious, screaming and running up and down the dorm hallways at 4am when I have class in three hours. </p>
<p>Other than that, I might instinctively pass a quick judgment but it's nothing I sit around critiquing for hours.</p>
<p>This is a really interesting topic! Since it is National Weed Day today, I feel obligated to add my two cents.</p>
<p>I feel that no one has the right to judge people who have tried/do drugs/alcohol if they've never tried it. On one hand, I agree that people who do it purely for the social reasons, especially those who post drunken pictures of themselves on the Internet, are d*****bags. </p>
<p>On the other hand, though, I consider myself to be a person who is very self-reflective. And in this way, weed has given me a really interesting perspective of the world that I would have otherwise never discovered. If you don't like the way it feels, don't do it. But I personally do and people who say I'm "stupid" for it have no idea what they are talking about. Same with cigarettes. If you don't want to pay the $5 a pack or risk getting addicted, which is bad for you both physically and psychologically, don't do it. But there is a reason so many people smoke around the world. It's not like people just do it because it "makes them look cool." Well, maybe some d*****bag freshmen. Same with drinking. </p>
<p>When it comes down to it, though, you shouldn't be judging anyone if you don't know them extremely well and if you don't know their full situation.</p>
<p>Yeah 4-20 ftw. Judge me because i honestly don't give a **** if you do or don't</p>
<p>InfiniteTruth, what you said in post #215 was interesting, but it's also important to leave room for doubt--like saying
"yes, my visceral judgment of a pot user is negative, but maybe i don't know everything." =/</p>