<p>We're having a 4-20 party in art class tomorrow lol. That's how hippy my art teacher is.</p>
<p>
[quote]
Because the friends I know didn't exercise moderation. In the end they couldn't control their habits and ended up losing control of themselves. You say yourself you don't know much about your uncle, I doubt you even understand his circumstances outside of what your parents told you. I'm not exactly promoting drugs here, by the way. Like I've said many, many, many times before, I don't try to get people to do them, because it really does take a strong person to be able to get out (I'm not bragging that I'm strong, but my parents have taught me from an early age to exercise caution and as a result, I can). The only thing I'm doing is trying to let the other side know that not all drug users are bad, and that not all drugs are as dangerous as most people make them out to be. I'm battling automatic judgment knowing I won't change your mind, but I'm hoping to at least give you a little understanding of how the other side isn't just full of hedonistic slobs with no ambitions in life.
[/quote]
I understand what you are saying, and I've been told the story several times, believe it or not my parents aren't shoving it down my throat that drugs are bad, I believe in this concept out of experience .In fact, I'm not sure what their reaction would be if i did take them, I don't know whether they would go berserk or just slum into a deep depression. I've met my uncle, he did exercise 'moderation' of what I've been told. I've met him and I'm not sure what to make of him, neither does anyone else in the family. I understand not all drug users are bad, I have one too many friends, Cousins, and whatnot on them...understand there is a correlation between criminals and drugs, so if people find out you're on the stuff, you credibility shoots down below places imaginable. I know the effects of drugs are exaggerated, but they're still bad none the less and I have personally seen enough people both stupid and smart alike lose their future.</p>
<p>
[quote]
Actually, I don't know anyone who went crazy when exercising moderation. Cheeseburgers don't have an immediate effect, but that doesn't change the fact that long-term overeating and obesity pose life-threatening health risks. Just because they're not immediate (moderate drug use isn't immediate either), they're smarter? Both end up shaving a few years off your life. Heck yeah, I'll try to stop my kids from chugging McDonald's if they're overweight and their health is compromised, but after a certain point there's not much anyone could do. Which paints the principle as a whole, really: a parent's job is to help a child learn self-control, but it's ultimately up to the kid how he wants to live. So you teach him how to eat healthy from the start and it'll lessen the chances of him having weight-related complications later in life. Same principle applies to drugs and alcohol (especially since you can't deny that it's becoming more and more common). You teach him how to be safe and exercise moderation from an early age, it'll lessen the chances of him going buck-wild after he leaves home.
[quote]
The Idea of Self control implies you stay away from what is harmful and illegal, it is hypocritical to give into peer pressure and calling it self control when you're high but not 'too high', it hypocritical when you say "I'm having a stressful day I think I'm going to go shove cocaine up my nose, or smoke some pot", or when you know you should and it is illegal but you do. I fail to see your reasoning behind this. That is not self control when you do drugs every month, or every week, or even every year. It is the opposite, you give into you desire. That, my friend, is not self control.</p>
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[quote]
Yeah... I'll tell them how sorry I am even after they, themselves, introduced me to it in the first place. My mom gave me my first joint and told me, "I'll let you try this if you promise to be safe about it." My dad and I smoke cigarettes on the porch together. That's how their parents brought them up, and don't you dare call them stupid parents. They're not crying about how I started using drugs (that would be hypocritical), they're actually happy I have the brains not to let it get out of control. And because this is out in the open, we can talk about anything. We're a very close family.
[/quote]
I disagree, and Like I said, i can't speak for your parents. thats all I'll say. I am not stupid enough to call anyones mother, father, dog, teacher, brother, cousin, whatever stupid. I want a discussion, not a flame war, when I want one I will make it known.</p>
<p>
[quote]
Wait, what? Like I said, I've lived in those places. People there aren't so adamently against it, and it's not because they've been beaten down by prospects of degeneration. Trust me, they're not tolerant of alcohol because they have no choice. Are you calling Germany morally inferior to the 'American standard'? Go and see for yourself. Definitely not true.
[/quote]
I suppose, but I've recently read some pretty bad thing about Germany. I suppose the politically correct thing to would be to say that I wasn't meaning my word to offend Germans, but seeing as it would be stupid, I admit i guess I did impose a bad choice of word in which make it seem like i think Germany is inferior. I do not really think that but my morals are more inline with those of the American law then the German law. They're a number of people who believe things on both sides, it would be GENERALIZING if anyone would say everyone from 'x' country or region is friendly. same thing applies here.</p>
<p>
[quote]
...where do you think I even tried hallucinogens for the first time? I don't know what part of China you're from and I doubt you were alive during the Opium Wars (I confess, I haven't been to all of China, nor was I alive 150 years ago), but the younger people there don't seem to care as much. I don't know if it was because I was living in a big city, but my cousins were all active and none of their lives were shattered dramatically by a little self-indulgence here and there. Same as in the Philippines when I was visiting. Maybe I've just been living in the wrong places but, even then, comparing the US to China is a much bigger cultural difference than comparing it to western Europe, which is why I've been using the latter as a more prominent example.
[/quote]
no, your not mistaken, China and the Philippines have drug problems (I'm assuming you know I have family in both since these are two consequently Asian countries you talked about). in the Philippines, kid buy some shoe polish stuff I can't remember exactly and get high on it. The streets of Shanghai are filled with prostitutes, especially when you near a hotel. I was alive during the opium wars....obviously...(that was sarcasm if you didn't catch it). But my Grandpa, the one who actually harbored my drug uncle, grew up in China. He has been all over china, as when the Japanese invaded he moved everywhere from Burma(which isn't in China mind you but none the less) to the Chongqing, Guangzhou, Beijing, Nanjing, Wuhan, Xi'an, Tianjin, Chengdu and Changsha. he was born and raised in Shanghai and NOT educated under the PRC, there is a whole story which if anybody is "deeply fascinated" feel free to message me. But in China they taught him that they eventually lost the opium wars but the government put strict laws down, which were very brutal and almost completely halted opium use. Now of course, no country of geographical and populous significance is free of drugs. I'm not saying China is drug free, and the young people do care, the young people are much like you and I. Some are for and some are against, and while i really do dislike the PRC (so much to the point I side with Tibet more, and I am HAN) I do agree with some of their policies. </p>
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[quote]
I don't know, ChaiMex. I'm really trying to keep up and understand your accusations, but they're just... wrong. In your deep and penetrating analysis of me and my family life you've come up with the wrong conclusions, along with the conclusions regarding places I, personally, have lived in.
[/quote]
I would not say my analysis is wrong, but wrong is merely your opinion. I do not understand your logic. so That being Said I could say the same thing you say, but I'll save myself the time as you already know it is implied with this word.</p>
<p>
[quote]
P.S. Sorry, sorry! I know I'm getting carried away with these jumbo-long responses. So I'm going to withdraw from this argument unless one of my points is challenged. x)
[/quote]
yeah I know what you mean... these responses take forever to make. aside from everything else. What do your parents do? You obviously travel a lot, where do you go? and why do you travel too much?...just curious :P</p>
<p>
[quote]
Some vices are in certain respects "healthier" than others and just because one likes to drink doesn't mean he's fond of smoking.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Just because you think it's "healthier" doesn't stop it from being a detriment. Bad analogy btw, so epic fail award goes to you I guess?</p>
<p>
[quote]
This logic is flawed too. You crash your car because you lose control of it, someone cuts you off, etc. I am pretty sure that there is no substance out there that actually causes you to crash your car.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Lol, another failed attempt to sound smart. How do more people lose control of their cars, by eating too much or drinking too much alcohol? GG</p>
<p>BTW, part of the reason that the marijuana brigade is lame is because:</p>
<ol>
<li><p>There are at least tens of causes that are more important than legalizing another smokable substance.</p></li>
<li><p>If you need THC so badly, why does it need to be smoked in the form of the plant? (see: the pathetic argument for wine being "good" for the body)</p></li>
<li><p>It's just more people *****ing, which is always annoying.</p></li>
</ol>
<p>I'll leave with this epic quote:</p>
<p>"Nah man I don't smoke weed...I smoke clowns like you on the b-ball court."</p>
<p>
[quote]
The Idea of Self control implies you stay away from what is harmful and illegal, it is hypocritical to give into peer pressure and calling it self control when you're high but not 'too high', it hypocritical when you say "I'm having a stressful day I think I'm going to go shove cocaine up my nose, or smoke some pot", or when you know you should and it is illegal but you do. I fail to see your reasoning behind this. That is not self control when you do drugs every month, or every week, or even every year. It is the opposite, you give into you desire. That, my friend, is not self control.
[/quote]
First of all, I already called drugs and alcohol a form of self-indulgence. Self-indulgence in any respect, whether it be food, sweets, porn, whatever, shows some lack of self-control, so as I said I'm not too offended if you're implying it. However, I feel it also takes self-control not to let it get out of hand. Sure it might not be dominating willpower, but at least it's being smart about it (and yes, smart about it. There is such a thing). I don't find it hypocritical at all to admit a certain lack of self-control, I'm just saying one needs it not to get out of control.
[quote]
I disagree, and Like I said, i can't speak for your parents. thats all I'll say.
[/quote]
I know you disagree, and I respect that you disagree. I won't change your mind, I'm just trying to make you understand a bit more my take/view on the whole thing.
[quote]
I'm not saying China is drug free, and the young people do care, the young people are much like you and I.
[/quote]
Yep. It's the same there as here, having two sides to the same argument. I suppose I didn't really mean they didn't care, but they didn't seem particularly affected when they were offering me.
[quote]
I would not say my analysis is wrong, but wrong is merely your opinion.
[/quote]
Odd, I don't seem to think so. ;) Just because you can't understand my logic doesn't make it wrong, and I'm trying to explain it but apparently I'm not articulate enough.
[quote]
yeah I know what you mean... these responses take forever to make. aside from everything else. What do your parents do? You obviously travel a lot, where do you go? and why do you travel too much?...just curious :P
[/quote]
Oh, man... complicated story. I'm white, but my parents adopted me (they're Chinese). So I've been back and forth between China and the US (more time in the US), and we have friends and family who moved to the Philippines so I've been there twice. A while ago I got in touch with my birth parents, who stem from the Netherlands (they live in the US). So I've been there a bit, stayed with my grandparents, and have cousins all over western Europe (mostly the Netherlands and Germany). xD </p>
<p>Alex</p>
<p>
[quote]
Just because you think it's "healthier" doesn't stop it from being a detriment. Bad analogy btw, so epic fail award goes to you I guess?
[/quote]
Just because I said it's healthier doesn't mean I think it's healthy. Do I have to say, "less detrimental"?</p>
<p>You said, "IMO, either do all of it or do none of it." I said, "just because one likes to drink doesn't mean he's fond of smoking." So does the infamous EFA go to me for making a (blatantly) related statement or to you for not seeing the connection?</p>
<p>And I liked the science analogy. xD xD</p>
<p>Alex</p>
<p>I've found it's usually divided into hierarchies of people who:</p>
<ol>
<li><p>drink </p></li>
<li><p>drink + smoke weed</p></li>
<li><p>drink + smoke weed + cigarettes</p></li>
</ol>
<p>As much as you like to argue otherwise, many people justify drinking as the "safest" option, which is just as stupid as saying mj is the "safest" or anything like that.</p>
<p>
[quote]
And I liked the science analogy. xD xD
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Slow clap for alex....</p>
<p>Personally, I've seen so many people messed up by drugs that it really bothers me when I see others doing them. I don't look down on them - it's more that it pains me to see them hurting themselves without concern for the consequences. I know that some people spiral out of control and find it very hard to quit, but those who do drugs just for the fun of it, just for the rush, just to seem cool, really upset me. There are definitely ways to have fun and party without drugs. In fact, I would rather have some recollection of what happened the night before...</p>
<p>In terms of alcohol, I find that if people drink in moderation (i.e. not too much in one night and not every night) and in safe environments that there is nothing really terribly wrong with it. In Europe, where the drinking age is significantly lower (or non-existent), drinking is more of a social practice rather than a hard-core, let's get as drunk as possible practice. People there go out for a few beers or cocktails, have fun, and are responsible for themselves and their friends. This seems much more appealing and healthy to me than what happens in the US. When I see Americans becoming so drunk and so out of control, yes, it bothers me, but I certainly do not look down on them. This is the age where there are few things tying you down and this is your chance to have a good time. While I firmly believe that "a good time" does not need to involve alcohol, I recognize that for some it is a preferred social practice. I definitely realize that alcohol can have detrimental effects on one's brain function (especially in the long term), which is why I stress moderation and safe environments.</p>
<p>Finally, I find smoking disgusting. I would never choose to smoke because I really don't see the appeal of it and because I recognize that the health and financial consequences can be grave.</p>
<p>Also, I look down on people who smoke if they smoke in my face or around me (when we're in small spaces). I hate second-hand smoke. While I really don't see why anyone would want to smoke, I recognize that it is a right they have. Just do it in your own space where you won't be endangering the lives of those around you.</p>
<p>k...well, I'm tired of arguing.
Its gotten very redundant.<br>
[quote]
Oh, man... complicated story. I'm white, but my parents adopted me (they're Chinese). So I've been back and forth between China and the US (more time in the US), and we have friends and family who moved to the Philippines so I've been there twice. A while ago I got in touch with my birth parents, who stem from the Netherlands (they live in the US). So I've been there a bit, stayed with my grandparents, and have cousins all over western Europe (mostly the Netherlands and Germany). xD
[/quote]
thats interesting... So you speak Chinese then??? Or do they talk to you in English? If you do speak something besides mandarin what do you speak and what part of china are your parents from...:P, curiosity...
You're parents are Chinese? I have never known a Chinese parent to be so liberal on drug issues. I'm not trying to be stereotypical, I am Chinese...or half...and I know lots of Chinese, and only the kids who actually are on drugs are pro drug.</p>
<p>Even God judges people - how can you expect to do better? :P</p>
<p>@ Destiny</p>
<p>Wow there I am better. I am real.</p>
<p>Don't do drugs...they are bad...they turn your brain into eggs. /no sarcasm/</p>
<p>I do not do drugs but I do judge people by even what they are wearing /gasp/. We all do.</p>
<p>If you don't judge others, you're either related to Mother T or not human.</p>
<p>some of these responses are way too detailed</p>
<p>im way too lazy to read any one post that fills up my whole screen</p>
<p>I have a small screen and Jimmy's post filled up my screen -- low pixel count.</p>
<p>Wow Jimmy be a little more concise. No one wants to read your page long diatribes.</p>
<p>
[quote]
thats interesting... So you speak Chinese then??? Or do they talk to you in English? If you do speak something besides mandarin what do you speak and what part of china are your parents from...:P, curiosity...
You're parents are Chinese? I have never known a Chinese parent to be so liberal on drug issues. I'm not trying to be stereotypical, I am Chinese...or half...and I know lots of Chinese, and only the kids who actually are on drugs are pro drug.
[/quote]
I get by in English and Mandarin. My parents come somewhere from southern Jiangsu (Changzou), but they moved to Shanghai and that's where I usually visit since most of my relatives are there. I can't speak Wu, though. I can get by with German and Spanish, but in places like the Philippines, most people speak English very well and in the Netherlands I'm convinced they sound better than I do. I speak no Dutch and I know like, 2 sentences in Tagalog.</p>
<p>I've heard the Englishmen were quite good at English, too. ;)
[quote]
im way too lazy to read any one post that fills up my whole screen
[/quote]
I'm sorry. xD xD</p>
<p>Alex</p>
<p>I try not to, I realize how easy it is to fall into such a pattern (And sometimes wish I had enough disregard for the rules to join them).</p>
<p>not at all. in fact i get very annoyed at people who do. i drink but dont smoke and I could honestly care less how people spend their time. And as people have said before, just because people drink and smoke doesnt mean they're throwing their lives away. DO you understand that kids at places like HYP drink and smoke weed plenty and probably did so in high school? Most of them will continue to be fine and live successful lives. its NOT a big deal</p>
<p>That's part of the problem...I talked to someone from the PAC at Harvard Yard this past weekend and realized how ****ed up our tenets are.</p>
<p>yes.</p>
<p>i never used to... but you know, things happen that change that</p>
<p>No, I will make jokes about them in front of them, but it won't stop me from befriending them. I think what they are doing is stupid, and I might state that, but I know there is more to a person than what bad habits he/she has.</p>