Do you need NLI to guarantee roster spot?

Athletic Recruits
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<p>I have learned a lot from the other posts on this forum and though I would get some input on our family’s current situation. </p>

<p>My Son (S) is a track & field athlete looking to go to a D1 school. He is a one event athlete and has applied to and is in the process of hearing back from 10 different schools. We have communicated either through phone or e-mail with all the coaches and there is a mixed level of responses, but all that are still in the mix have said they are interested in him. We expect to make 3 official visits in the next month. He is a solid performer and a good student. All of the recruiting charts we have seen list his marks at the D1 level and he has a 3.7 unweighted, 4.1 weighted & 29 ACT. All of the money offered to date, from the schools we have heard back from so far, has been academic, but no full rides and no one has mentioned athletic money. However, It looks like we will have at least 2-3 affordable options for our family that have both good academics for his major (chemistry) and a good coach for his event. </p>

<p>Yes we know going to college and getting a good education is what it is all about, blah, blah, blah. But he will only go to a school where he is certain that he will be on the team. Since coaches change and we can tell that he is not THE number one recruit for the schools we are talking to, do we ask for a NLI from his number one choice to lock in a spot before declining acceptances/scholarships at the other schools? We are nervous about this situation because we had one school that told us right off the bat (after they initiated contact with my son) that there were no roster spots open for his Freshman year and he would be red-shirted but they wanted him anyway??? In another case we know of, a coach left the program, the school didn’t replace him and then decided not to support anyone in this event. The last thing we want is to pick a school and have any of this happen.</p>

<p>What have others done to confirm their place on the team and get some commitment from the school when there is no athletic money?</p>

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<p>Unfortunately, even signing a LOI is not a guarantee that he’ll compete. I know quite a few track athletes who signed and were redshirted.</p>

<p>As for event coaches leaving - it happens. A lot.</p>

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<p>Hi OnTrack, before answering your question, I think it’s important to clarify a couple of recruiting terms of art. First, it sounds like your son is being recruited as a walk on, i.e., he would be a “recruited walk on.” That means he would not be receiving any athletic money, but it does not necessarily mean he will be redshirted, or won’t play much, or won’t start etc. It just means he won’t receive any athletic money if he chooses to attend. I am assuming the coach is telling your son he will be on the team if he attends. If not, then the coach is promising nothing, and merely asking your son to try to walk on once he shows up on campus.</p>

<p>Second, to my knowledge, the NLI is used only when athletic aid is being offered. I don’t have one in front of me now, but basically the NLI has a lot of legalese, and it has an accompanying award letter stating the amount of aid being offered for the first year. If the recruit signs and returns the NLI, then the school is bound to provide the aid offered (assuming the recruit starts school, attends practices, clean record etc). </p>

<p>Now to directly answer your question: No, the NLI will not guarantee your son anything regarding playing time, or redshirting etc. I’m not even sure it “guarantees” a roster spot for the first year-- maybe someone else can help here? – but in practice it’s hard to imagine a coach giving athletic aid unless he intends to have the athlete on the roster.</p>

<p>On the flip side, if the athlete signs a NLI, he cannot play for another NCAA school his first year unless the original school agrees to release him. So, unless your son is getting athletic aid, he would have no reason to sign a NLI (assuming he could without aid being given).</p>

<p>In your son’s situation, he should try to get the coach to state in writing that if he attends, he will be on the roster the first year. If the coach is not willing to state this in writing, then you and your son should be skeptical. Your son can also try to get the coach to “commit” in writing that he will not be redshirted, but be forwarned that such promises are not binding, even for scholarship players.</p>

<p>Finally, don’t be shy about asking for athletic aid. Your son won’t know unless he asks.</p>

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<p>It is true the NLI is for the purposes of athletic scholarship money. It is a contract between the athlete and the school for a 1 year commitment on both ends. It does not guarantee anything other than if the athlete does what they are supposed to do (not get in trouble, take enough units etc) the school will provide athletic money for the one year. They are renewed each year. It definitely does not guarantee anything other than that. Track is an equivalency sport and unless your son is a TOP recruit he probably won’t get any money or possibly a tid bit… Equivalency sports split up their scholarship money amongst the entire team, a top tier athlete might get a good chunk but most will get very little or nothing.
If you are concerned only about a roster spot, well there is no guarantee either. This is where you have to do your homework and trust your gut. Talk to past/current athletes/parents in program and see how long the coach has been there etc… Face to face time is also good. No problem asking on the official visit about a guaranteed roster spot. Red shirting is still a roster spot, you practice and work your butt off to get better but do not compete. That is all that means. Sometimes it is best for the student athlete to do so. D1 is TOUGH, not easy in any way and add Chemistry major in there, you better home he LOVES his event because it will be his job, athletic money or not.<br>
Best of luck, I always found asking direct yet not pushy questions and honest answers on our end worked best.</p>

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<p>I think evertonnut and momof2010 gave you a very detailed and accurate answer. I also agree with mom2010 that D1 track and chemistry can be a tough mixture. I would want some input from the coach about this situation.</p>

<p>Since the D1 schools he is currently talking to are only providing academic money, why not consider other D2 schools that can provide athletic or academic or D3 schools that can provide academic scholarships. There are a universe of schools out there that can provide chemistry and track. Limiting your choices to just D1 schools as a potential walk-on or recruited walk-on is giving you fewer options (and leverage) than may be possible with other schools. On your son’s first day of practice it isn’t going to matter if the school is D1, D2 or D3. He’ll want to earn a starting spot on the track team and keep it. JMO</p>

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<p>There is very little money for track to start with, then for a one event athlete the chances of getting any money is very small. Most athletes on a track team get no money. He can still compete without a scholarship. Did you investigate other levels-DII, DIII, NAIA? Just because he hits DI standards doesn’t mean he has to go DI. Many DIII schools will give more generous merit aid making them very affordable.</p>

<p>As for official visits–make sure you understand what those are in the sports world–those are visits where the college invites your son to visit and pays his way for those visits. Highly unlikely that a one event athlete will get an Official Visit. Now, you can visit as many times as you want as long as you pay your own way.</p>

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<p>Steve’s comment about official visits made me think of something else: if a D1 university is paying for a true official visit, it seems very likely they are interested in your son joining the team. Coaches don’t tend to waste recruiting dollars on athletes who they don’t think can help them. Also, an official visit suggests to me that some athletic money is possible, unless the coach has already used up all his scholarships. After all, if the coach has money to pay for the official visit, he likely has enough money to offer at least books.</p>

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<p>“However, It looks like we will have at least 2-3 affordable options for our family that have both good academics for his major (chemistry) and a good coach for his event.” </p>

<p>It sounds like the OP already has 3 very good colleges selected. I wouldn’t think it would be necessary to look beyond these schools. If your S is being offered 3 OV I would think that at least one of these coaches would offer a small athletic scholarship or roster spot. I would compare your S times to the current team members’ times and their high school times (you can use milesplit.com to find these). If his Jr and Sr high school times are faster than the current team members high school Jr and Sr times then it would be very likely that he would have a roster spot. Your S can also ask the coach what times he will need while he is on his OV. Have your S ask many questions during his OV.</p>

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<p>

Not necessarily. A lot of schools with no athletic money (Ivies, for example) still offer OVs.</p>

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<p>Thanks for all of the great input and the clarification of what an NLI is and isn’t. Based on what everyone has said, we will advise our S to simply come out and ask if there is any athletic money available before assuming there isn’t. (Although we have low, and I think realistic money expectations, because we know for men’s track there are only 12.6 scholarships for a whole team at D1, and sometimes they don’t even elect to use them all).</p>

<p>We will also have him ask via e-mail (so we get something in writing) that there is in fact a roster spot and he isn’t just being kept “warm” in case other recruits don’t work out. The angst with redshirting isn’t so much a problem with competing straight away; it is more of a concern for our budget. Academic money is only renewable for four years and ends whether you have athletic eligibility left or not so we don’t want to initially start off on a five year plan if we can help it. We may end up that way for a variety of reasons but just don’t want to if we don’t have to, although I agree that it wouldn’t be the worst thing for him to get a better academic start at school without the stress of competition.</p>

<p>Unfortunately of the 3 OVs only 1 is at a school that has come back to date with solid academic money, but that is one that the coach is being vague on roster spots. Sorry I didn’t say that anywhere. We plan on visiting any other school still in the mix (funding our own travel) during his spring break. That is part of the reason why we were looking for advice on what to do on a visit. The stars have not aligned yet…</p>

<p>I appreciate all the concerns about chemistry and D1 sports. S knows that he will likely be going to summer school every year to keep his course load manageable and GPA up (because all academic money comes with a min GPA). He eats, sleeps and breathes his event already and spends about 20 hours /wk. We have been told to expect about 30 hours/week from other college athletes that he keeps in touch with. So as much as you can tell a 17 yr old teenage boy…he knows what to expect.</p>

<p>We had looked at a few D3 schools but he could not get fired up about going to a school where his current PR already puts him on the school’s top 10 of all time list. There seems to be a huge difference in his event between D1 & D3 levels. D2’s for a variety of reasons did not work out; the most common reasons being, seemingly less academic money to play with, or poor to no response from coaches in his event. We also know that athletic scholarships are no more likely at D2. Good or bad, many of the strong D1 track schools are state universities looking to bump up their OOS enrollment numbers, hence the more favorable academic money pre-reads.</p>

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<p>One interesting back end result of a redshirt year is the potential to compete in a fifth year - while the athlete may be in a graduate school - even at a different university.</p>

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<p>Stemit – You are right. Competing in graduate school could be an option if he gets redshirted. We are just trying to avoid my son being in college for a fifth year to get his four year degree with no more financial aid. But if he graduates in 4 yrs with eligibility left, it isn’t a bad situation.</p>

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<p>Have you considered any NAIA schools? Both athletic and academic money there and generally lots of it.</p>

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<p>I’m assuming he is a senior, correct? Spring break visits are going to be VERY tight with getting his acceptances in, scholarship money done, etc. Since you don’t mention his event and PR it’s hard to judge if a D3 school is a poor fit or not but top 10 all time for one school could mean not even making the team at another and again, since you have brought up money as a need, a good D3 athlete supported through admissions of finds themselves with a lot of “academic” funds.</p>

<p>Also, what’s the difference between going a 5th year and taking classes every summer? It probably ends up costing pretty much the same since most academic scholarships don’t cover summer classes anyway.</p>

<p>I would also not count on the coach guaranteeing him a spot on the roster. A lot can change between now and next spring. Your son will have to earn his spot just like everyone else.</p>

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<p>Pretty sure we have done our homework on performance and the right fit athletically is at the D1 level. We have 2 schools that we are talking to that people reference as Tier 2 - D1 which have strong track teams but are not what people would typically think of as a D1 school (they are not big football powerhouses). If either of them give my son adequate academic money, we are done with our worrying! But both of these schools don’t tell you your final scholarship amount until 2/15. We got a vague letter saying he was getting academic money with his “You’re In” admissions notification, but no dollars, just a minimum level, which was low, and the mid-Feb date for a final number after (much to his enjoyment) he wrote some additional essays!</p>

<p>I hesitate to say my S specific event because within track & field some of the non- running events have their own little community so don’t want to put too much “out there” as it were. At most of the bigger meets, all the kids, parents and coaches look familiar, and everyone kind of knows each other or knows OF each other by senior year.</p>

<p>Based on what we are hearing back from the more seasoned parents on CC, we are unlikely to ever get a guarantee in the way that we would like it before making a final selection. We will have to go on coaches’ reputation, past record and the fact that it is a small world in some regards. So we will just need to assume that if it is a well respected coach he/she is unlikely to damage their reputation just to mislead my son. </p>

<p>But do we know the timing is tight! We have a chart on the refrigerator with current dates/status of the schools still in the mix and deposits are for the most part due 4/1. We still have one coach saying he can do anything until the day the fall semester starts, but I doubt he has any control over the academic scholarship dept. So as a family, 4/1 is our decision date. We are also hoping that with Feb 6th being the track signing date for the big name kids, after that options for my S may change (if coaches either lock in their top choice or find they aren’t; going to get who they thought). I guess we will have to see how things shake out.</p>

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<p>Varska - you are spot on in your PM. (Apparently I haven’t posted enough to reply directly to you, I can only read PMs.)
Any insight/experience you can share would be greatly appreciated!</p>

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<p>Update on NLI and roster spots… </p>

<p>Coaches responded very matter of fact to the question – “Will I have a roster spot”. All but one said yes, and the one that said “maybe” let my S know that he was their second tier recruit and the roster spot depended on someone else’s decision. But he would tell my S where he stood before being asked to submit a school deposit to hold academic money. </p>

<p>Other answers confirmed what others on this thread have said, “you only sign an NLI if you receive athletic money”, and just because you sign one doesn’t mean you will compete/travel. One school told my S that they only take the top 2 in each event to national level invitational’s, but there are 4 in his event on the roster. So having a guaranteed roster spot (without a try-out) doesn’t mean you will travel to all the meets. </p>

<p>They all said they hold try-outs for the overall student population but have never displaced a recruited athlete. In the case that some previously unknown talent appears at the tryout, you could eventually be displaced in subsequent years, but once you are on the roster you stay for current year. The coach of one very highly ranked track school did remind my S that they would be recruiting each and every year for the best so, scholarship or not, you could find yourself displaced from the roster in later years. If they give you a roster spot you are guaranteed on the team for the first year only. </p>

<p>All the coaches (6) we spoke to clarified that they have money for OVs from a separate recruiting budget even if they don’t have any scholarship money for event/yr. etc. So don’t read too much into being invited for an OV other than they want to convince you to come to the school, it doesn’t mean they are offering any athletic money.</p>