Do Your Homework - By Jon Jury

College Majors Theater/Drama Majors
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<p>Did anyone else see this article in the December 2014 college edition of Dramatics Magazine? I would link it, but I can't find it online.</p>

<p>A couple of the more brutal excerpts were:</p>

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One in twenty (or fewer) collegiate drama students will still be in the profession fifteen years after graduation

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The only undergraduate programs the profession gives a damn about are...Juilliard, Carnegie Mellon and North Carolina School of the Arts...All the rest are either okay or not okay

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Yikes!</p>

<p>He does say there are 100's of programs and good actors have come from almost all of them, but not in bunches.</p>

<p>He also provides a detailed lists of what to look for in a program and what to expect and not expect.</p>

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<p>I believe this is the link.</p>

<p><a href=“http://editiondigital.net/publication/?i=234963#{“issue_id”:234963,“page”:20}”>http://editiondigital.net/publication/?i=234963#{“issue_id”:234963,“page”:20}&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

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<p>Wow- that has to be one of the most negative things I have read in a while… for me, it seems hard to take someone seriously when they are coming from such a dark place. Not that their aren’t lots of truthful statements- but it reminds me of the people who delight in telling you delivery horror stories when you are 8 months pregnant. But what do I know- my kid didn’t apply to Julliard or UNCSA (so no chance there) and she was rejected from Carnegie- so according to the author, no one will ever give a damn about her anyway. She did make it into two of the programs he essentially called wannabes (which included Rutgers, Syracuse, Boston, Purchase and Minn Guthrie) so I guess there could be a glimmer of hope… but geez :-? </p>

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<p>I thought the article wasn’t so much dark as silly. (My S got into UNCSA so I have nothing to prove here either!). It’s true the training at those schools is excellent but to say that these are the only 3 that matter to agents is really silly. Not only does it depend on you (you could graduate from State U and be a successful B’way or Hollywood actor), but it also depends on your goals and your path.</p>

<p>And overall, the field is very difficult. The author talks about 15 years later (age 34 or so) when where you went to school matters very little, and then tosses in how the three schools are the only ones well regarded. The two things have little to do with each other. Sure, it helps a lot to be talented and have excellent training. But to last 15 years, you need other critical skills–stamina, professionalism, networking, marketing yourself, a very positive work ethic, never giving up, and above all, a desire to keep going. You may not have a desire to keep going even if you’re successful, because, say , you want to raise a family. So? That doesn’t mean you weren’t successful those 15 years you were in the arts. To everything there is a season. </p>

<p>I actually thought 1 in 20, 15 years later, was good. No job in the arts is easy. 15 years is a way of measuring whether this career can be an adult career, capable of supporting a family or at least living decently. For many people, the answer is no. I have known many very talented and successful actors who leave the profession because it just doesn’t pay and they’re tired of the constant stress of not knowing what will happen next, and/or the constant uprooting. This is just the reality of it. It’s not dark–it’s just good to know and to plan accordingly. </p>

<p>Many jobs are not ‘jobs for life.’ Many. You can enter a career, any career, in your 20s and in your 30s decide it’s not for you. This happens <em>all</em> the time, in all fields. </p>

<p>I think what he is trying to imply is that a) this is a difficult field in which the chances of success are very low and b) if you don’t go to those 3 schools, your chances are even lower. I disagree with him as far as the degree to which your chances are lower by not going to these schools, but in general what he says is true enough. It’s also not really news. This is a difficult field in which many are not still working in it as 34 year old adults. But that doesn’t mean that you shouldn’t pursue it. Even if you were to leave at 34, so? The main thing that’s important is not to incur much debt–that is a valid point. But that’s true of pretty much any major, and is a topic for a whole other thread!</p>

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<p>I don’t think he is saying that. I think he is saying that if you’re from one of those select programs it’s a sign to the industry that you have talent, but if you’re not, the industry would not necessarily automatically assume your NOT talented. To me, it means you’re in a way pre-screened.</p>

<p>I wonder if Jon Jory has similar opinions about MFA programs, and, if so, which ones? My guess would be Juilliard, Yale and NYU - but I know very little about the ‘industry’</p>

<p>Also, on the fewer than 5% still in the biz after 15 years thing - Isn’t that true for most undergrad degrees? How many of you were still doing what you studied for in undergrad 15 years out? I wasn’t.</p>

<p>WWFBFS ~ what would @fishbowlfreshman‌ say about the article?</p>

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<p>To me, the article breaks no new ground. I guess the school he teaches at is also useless.</p>

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<p>I agree that he doesn’t say anything that someone who has researched careers in the arts doesn’t already know. It’s hard, lots of people choose other paths, etc… I was just offended by his overall attitude</p>

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<p>I sort of appreciate his honesty. At one of the theatre conservatories we visited, i felt like I was at a Vacation timeshare sales pitch meeting. They were evasive about life after graduation. But, I’m surprised Dramatics ran the article in the college edition, given much of the ad space is dedicated to college theatre programs. </p>

<p>I do disagree with Jory’s statement : “it’s probably not going to strengthen your intellectual powers or your general trove of information.” I really think theatre is a powerful approach to a liberal arts education. Where else do you literally walk in King Lear’s shoes?</p>

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<p>“it’s probably not going to strengthen your intellectual powers or your general trove of information.” was one of the phrases that particularly offended me. As did the idea that at BA is not a legit way to study, and his over all tone (“Visit the damn school”…really?) Then of course there was his thoughtful advise on evaluating programs “do you feel comfortable in the dept or do you have the strange feeling you have joined a cult”. And perhaps the best nugget of all “acting is not really very complicated”. I guess that puts all our kids in their place- doesn’t it…</p>

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<p>I don’t necessarily disagree that his three schools will yield someone who is more likely to be working in the field in 15 years. Despite the pompous tone, what it doesn’t take into account is what the students discover about themselves during college that may independently steer them from the arts or acting and into something else. What we shouldn’t take as new news is that those are the top acting schools. We all know this. I’d like to think most of the CC parents and students are smart enough to also consider the “fit” aspect of the programs our students are pursuing. I have a whole new appreciation for that “fit” idea as I’ve seen D come to her list of schools to which she is applying. They have far more to do with specific curriculum and practice (and how little academics she can get away with!) than the prestige of the school. Some of them are more prestigious than others (and even one of them is a school he mentions in his article), but by and by, she has selected her list based on what she feels will feed her soul as an artist and prepare her to do art in the world post-graduation. </p>

<p>I mean, she’s 17, I can’t expect her to see and predict her entire future right now, but her thought process in finding her “fits” is enough for me to connection between what she is pursuing in college and what kind of jobs she will be capable of after graduation. </p>

<p>What concerns me most about this article is taking the Type A perfectionist types who read this article and thinking their success/future is tied completely to those three schools. This is an article of opinion. One man’s opinion. Not fact. But it is opinion stated as fact, which could really do a number on a kid’s psyche if for some reason they did not get into one of those schools. Think of the children, people! </p>

<p>Anyway, just an old mom’s two cents!</p>

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<p>It is sad that people who graduate from the top schools in any field are given a leg up just because of the school’s reputation. Give me the doctor who went to a second tier medical school and studied hard to get straight A’s, over someone who skated by with C’s and D’s at the top tier school - LOL! </p>

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<p>Damn, and I thought this was going to be so easy. </p>

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<p>It’s funny I read this article and can identify like most of you, with a bit of shock and irritation. My husband read it and said, " well, he didn’t really say anything too harsh, just what you already knew!" Are we all being too sensitive? Unifieds haven’t even begun yet and now with all the auditions booked, hotels and flights confirmed, anxiety is upon us all. Lets just stay focused on our kid’s and their passion for the craft. Onward and upward!</p>

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<p>Interesting, since Jory didn’t graduate himself from a drama program (although he teaches). </p>

<p>A little backstory is always enlightening; here’s a good piece on Jory: <a href=“March 2002 Columns Magazine Feature: Making It Work”>http://www.washington.edu/alumni/columns/march02/jory1.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

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Jerry Rice (NFL) - all-time best NFL receiver

•Three Super Bowl Championships
•MVP of Super Bowl XXIII.
•All time reception leader with 1,549
•All time touchdown leader with 208
•All time receiving touchdown leader with 197
•All time leader in receiving yards with 22,895
•Selected for the All-NFL team 11 times
•Picked as the number 1 NFL player of all time by NFL.com

No scholarship to a major college coming out of High School.

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AND Michael Jordan was passed over for the varsity basketball team his sophomore year. At the time, the coaches didn’t see anything special about him.

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Who? Me? This kind of thing leads to protracted arguments, but I’ll play for a little while … :slight_smile:

Look at what Jory does. He’s one of the stalwart graybeards of the regional repertory movement where they mainly use actors with MFAs. These are the places where they hire a company of actors for a season with each being responsible for several diverse and difficult roles at once plus at least being competent to dance in the chorus of the musical if needed. The truth of the matter is that the three schools he names have a proven track record of consistently turning out actors who can do that. It’s actually been mentioned here in the past that those are the American undergraduate programs that offer true MFA level training much to the consternation of some MT parents whose denial was so fierce that that sometimes resorted to off-list personal attacks … So, from the perspective of his little corner of “the industry” that is sadly dying a slow death, he’s for the most part right.

Now in my corner of the industry, it matters, but not nearly as much. Actually, in LA, the only degrees the industry really gives a dang about are Juilliard and the Yale and Tisch MFAs although CMU and UNCSA grads who are castable straight out of school are a hotter commodity in NYC. That’s also true to a somewhat lesser extent with around ten other schools. The rest? You’re at square one with everybody else if you aren’t lucky enough to nab good rep from your showcase assuming your school does one. And some good news is that there is a trend that college training in general is being looked upon more favorably than in the past for new actors who didn’t just grow up in the biz in Hollywood. Something else that has already been implied is that all this is straight out the gate after graduation when a career in acting is most certainly a marathon and not a sprint.

But how many schools can boast of a 2014 graduate with a [Tony nomination for best leading actor in a play?](http://www.tonyawards.com/en_US/nominees/artists/EBD43D0B-A6AB-1999-C5006039BD3F71FC.html) A series regular playing [Tea Leoni’s eldest daughter with an expanding arc on “Madam Secretary”](Wallis Currie-Wood - IMDb) plus a multi-scene supporting role opposite Robert Deniro and Anne Hathaway in a $35mm movie? Juilliard can. How about a 2014 graduate doing a hell of a job playing [Anna from “Frozen” on “Once Upon a Time”/url who was also in the pilot for the new David Fincher HBO series? And her classmate who booked [url=Newcomer Gus Halper Lands The Lead In ABC Pilot ‘The Kingmakers’ – Deadline]THE SERIES LEAD](Elizabeth Lail - IMDb)in a major network pilot? UNCSA can. How about a 2014 graduate who booked [thirteen network level guest star and recurring credits](Adam Hagenbuch - IMDb) his first year out of school? CMU can and his mom actually used to post here. He already had some credits before he graduated, but still … And they all have classmates who are settling in as worker bees and some who may eventually surpass them, but also others who haven’t had any luck at all and may never. No guarantees for anyone, but it is what it is.

And there’s always the question as to whether conservatory training is completely necessary past the regional repertory world to which the common industry answer is a resounding no. [Here’s a video of Billy O’Leary](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XieWozN0dSo&feature=youtu.be)who is one of the better LA on-camera coaches who I believe got his MFA from U. Washington when Jon Jory taught there talking about it. He goes so far as to say he probably shouldn’t have gone because it “overtrained” him. His assistant teacher is a CMU grad who apparently agrees.

Something else that is admittedly superficial is that if you look at the IMDb Pro Starmeter, you’ll see around 100 actors in the top 10,000 who went to those three schools. I’m not gonna count, but that’s an estimate and what should be obvious is that it’s around 100 out of 10,000. Lotsa paths …

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Come back more often @fishbowlfreshman, it’s no fun without you.