Does a B keep you out of Ivy League?

Parent Cafe
1

<p>Okay, I know that I am setting myself up here for being reprimanded even for asking this question. Please consider this carefully and bear with me ...</p>

<ul>
<li>Student is currently a junior in a very competitive public school with little if any grade inflation</li>
<li>Student's standardized scores are very high </li>
<li>Student's class rank is very high</li>
<li>H.S. grades are letter grades with plus and minus (i.e. A+, A- etc.) as an option</li>
<li>Grades are slightly weighted for AP and honors</li>
<li>All of student's grades thus far have been A or A+ in all honors and AP courses</li>
<li>Student would very much like to go to a top tier school</li>
<li><p>Student is well aware that schools like HYP are a lottery ticket though graduates from H.S. in recent years have gotten in to all three schools as well as several other Ivies and top schools</p></li>
<li><p>Nevertheless, student understands that there are many factors involved in admission, not just grades, test scores, etc.</p></li>
</ul>

<p>Here's the problem:
Student is currently taking a very difficult AP class. The school has not had good success in students obtaining a 4 or 5 on AP test, although school has tremendous success rate on all other AP exams offered.</p>

<p>Student may likely get a B+ for the year as the course is extremely difficult because class is graded based on exams which are largely modeled after the AP exam.</p>

<p>Student knows that it is likely to be admitted to many excellent schools. However, student is concerned that one B+ on transcript could put out of the running for HYP. (Student is interested in one of those in particular.)</p>

<p>Student would be happy with other schools but will try for HP or Y as a reach, as they are a reach for just about everyone.</p>

<p>Student has a few more days to decide whether to drop the AP class.</p>

<p>Student is not and has never been a "quitter."</p>

<p>Student would gladly opt to stay in class, as GPA and class rank would only be minimally affected by one B+. However, would that one B+ put student out of the running for HP or Y? Student feels concerned that "I've worked so hard all along, done so well, and this B+ could ruin it all..." (i.e. any chances I have)</p>

<p>Again, student understands that there are no guarantees to get in to HYP, even with solid A's - just feels that after three years of hard work, maybe it pays to hedge bets ...</p>

<p>Is it possible to get into an Ivy with a B? Does anyone know anyone who has, particularly HYP?</p>

2

<p>Yes. Grades aren't everything.</p>

3

<p>stop. being. paranoid.</p>

4

<p>Yes, many, many students have gotten into Ivies with a B. I know of three last year from our school; I interviewed for an Ivy for many years and it was never a problem; though I stopped interviewing a year ago, I am still in touch with colleagues and students still get in with Bs.</p>

5

<p>twinmom--this process can make you a little crazy. But consider this; most student at HYP do not have an unweighted 4.0 GPA, by all accounts. Plenty of 'em must have got a B or 2 along the way.</p>

<p>My S is not at HYP, but is at Columbia, whose acceptance rate is similar (though the competition might not have been quite as astronomical). He got some B's every year but freshman year. He also only took three years of language. Every rule can be broken.</p>

<p>Don't make yourself nuts. He should stay in the class as long as he wants to be there.</p>

6

<p>Yes, I would bet that most students currently attending HY or P have at least one, probably more Bs on their hs transcripts. 3.9 is good enough!! Your son has the grades for any school. I think the essays are what make or break an app.</p>

7

<p>Of course it is possible to get into any school with a single B on y our transcript. One B probably will not put the child out of the top 10 percent, either, which is probably more to the point. The issue I guess is who the competition is at your child's school; if other kids are getting at least an A- in the class, then the relative value of a B+ drops as does the value of an A in the honors course, which will be perceived as a lesser achievement. Kids are competing for admission against their classmates and against peers at similar schools throughout the region. </p>

<p>Perhaps more to the point, there are as you say so many variables. All A's won't get you in, and one B won't keep you out, but having all A's and little else other than high scores will be even less of a key to admission than having one B and some other strengths beyond the classroom. I don't think there's a single answer here, but if the AP courses isn't having a negative effect on the student's other grades I think I would stick with it. (Both my children graduated from a high school more or less like the one you describe so I am fairly familiar with this kind of quandary.)</p>

8

<p>I think you'd have a hard time explaining to an interviewer that you dropped a course because you expected to get a B+. You didn't address it, but is your child learning in the course, feeling challenged, etc.? There could be many positives to this experience. I think it looks far worse for someone to drop a course in February because they didn't want to receive a B on their transcript. You might also want to check on how transcripts from your school are sent. Our high school records one letter grade for each course, so a single B+ in one quarter might average out to an A anyway.</p>

9

<p>I got 4 B's out of 5 classes junior year and I'm into Penn this year. I'm an asian male/no legacy.</p>

10

<p>Most students with all As will not get into HYPs. If you (and the student) would get around the idea that s/he is NOT going to HYP, except by perhaps happy accident, the answer to such a question might be based on something as insidious as whether s/he likes the class, and feels the material is worth learning. After all, regardless of where s/he goes to college, that question is going to repeat itself, so it would be good training to start asking it now.</p>

<p>So have him/her/you repeat - "We are NOT going to HYP", and then address the question. All of a sudden, a weight is taken off, and life and education become more interesting.</p>

11

<p>Great post! :)</p>

12

<p>Nedad, Garland, Asap, Mattmom, Duskstamper: Thanks for sharing your experiences/thoughts on the question.</p>

<p>Lefthandofdog: I totally agree. However, it is within the drop period so the grade would not be recorded at all on the transcript.</p>

<p>Mini: As I said, the student is well aware that all As will likely not get one into those HYPs. My post stated a clear understanding of the lottery factor, or the "happy accident" as you call it.</p>

<p>I did not state my opinion on this, so it is quite a leap for you to think that I should get around the idea that "we" are going to HYP. I'm already a college graduate, and a happy (non-Ivy) one at that.</p>

13

<p>I know of students who have gotten into Yale with Cs (lots of 'em!), and a couple of Ds. Our number one citizen, for a start (or so it is said: I have never seen his transcript.)</p>

<p>If the student is asking this question in a serious vein, it would betray an attitude that would keep him/her out of HYP. Not that anything so serious is necessary to keep him/her out. And if she/he picks up the idea that this is a signficant question, his/her ability to manage her own education seriously will suffer (if it hasn't done so already), regardless of future college plans.</p>

<p>So, now that we agree that it is a lottery, we can discuss whether rabbits' feet might help. Meanwhile...does the student like the class, and feel that it offers something worth learning?</p>

14

<p>Twinmom, I didn't take mini's comment as an attack on you, and I didn't mean for my "Bravo" to seem directed at that. What I LOVED about it was that it put everything back into perspective for all us. It was like an "aha!" moment - and I see how easy it is to slip into asking the wrong questions.</p>

15

<p>Is this a half year class? Just curious b/c of it being within the drop period. If it is, isn't it sort of early to know the expected grade? If not, boy that is some liberal drop period.</p>

<p>And what happens next year if the student is heading for a B+ in a different AP class? Please don't get all defensive, believe me I know where you are coming from. I don't have any cut and dry answer but I do think that the process of deciding whether or not to drop a class for these sorts of reasons helps to clarify one's values and priorities, as well as one's child's. </p>

<p>It's a tough spot to be in.</p>

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<p>With a B on his transcript, the student might as well completely give up on life. He is now only barely qualified to attend the nearest community college. Expect him to be supersizing things for the rest of his life.</p>

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<p>Twinmom, my advice, do not drop the class due to the B+ grade. Your child's grades, even with ONE B+ (and you don't know yet for sure if the final avg. WILL be B+) are STELLAR! The top Ivies are not necessarily looking for PERFECTION. They are looking for high achievement in the most demanding courses at your school (as one of many admissions factors). All A's and one B+ certainly is a transcript that CAN get into H, Y, or P. The B+ will NOT make or break your child's profile. As you are well aware, straight A's doesn't necessarily even get you into those three schools. You met my D recently and she had straight A's throughout high school, only person from her school to achieve that (so no grade inflation) in the most rigorous courses. She was deferred then denied at Y and waitlisted at P. So, the straight A's do not get you in, and the B+ won't keep ya out. </p>

<p>I do not quite get if your child's course is half year or year long when you say it is within the drop period. If yearlong, I think it would not look good to have dropped a course and the B+ looks FAR better and it looks like the child challenged her/himself. If it is a semester long course, I can't imagine knowing at this point what the final grade is headed to be. But anyway, I wonder what the course is. I mean if it is a core subject, it might not look so good to not have taken that subject. Colleges do look at the strength of the student's curriculum choices. I'd rather see the student challenge herself and get that one B+, than take the easier way out. Also, you say this won't adversely affect his/her GPA or rank and so really, you are just talking about the actual B+ on the transcript and what effect THAT will have. I maintain, NO effect on the child's admissions chances. Now, if the kid went from all A's and started dropping to all B's junior year, that might raise a brow. This is not that scenario and it appears the child took a challenging load and did quite well with the challenge. </p>

<p>What is gonna separate kid X from kid Y in elite admissions, is NOT gonna be a singular grade like this. Almost every kid applying to HYP has the "goods" as far as very high grades (am not talking all straight A's either), so what separates them is all the other factors. Jamimom can attest to having a son get in EA to Yale this fall and I know he does not have straight A's and I believe he may even have some C's (she can correct me if mistaken). Now, straight A's looks better than B's and C's, no kidding. But as you can see, there are exceptions. And straight A's with one B+ looks about equal in their eyes to straight A's, believe me. This is not anything to worry about. </p>

<p>If the child likes the course, stay with it. If this is a course that strengthens his/her courseload, keep it. Challenging courses are a good thing on a transcript. It is not JUST the letter grades but WHAT you took. </p>

<p>My philosophy with regard to grades (not talking college admissions now) is that you strive to do your very best, rather than strive to maintain straight A's. If your child did her very best, and learned and put out, that's what matters.</p>

<p>Susan</p>

18

<p>Great advice, soozie. </p>

<p>My junior son received a B+ (first in 2 years) in a challenging AP, and believe me, the thought of dropping never entered his mind. It's his favorite class! The teacher is a kick, and it's full of all his friends, and discussions are usually fun and thought-provoking. He'll work harder and smarter, and try for an A, but even if he's not able to do that he doesn't regret choosing it.
Before his semester final in that class, I asked him where he thought he stood (stupid mom- learning to keep mouth shut)
and he said he hadn't really figured it out. He said," It doesn't really matter, because I'm going to try my best regardless of the grade I have going into it. What difference would it make? " We parents need to stop being so hung up on grades. I know it's hard but we're not helping them with either the stress, or the values by concerning ourselves with the minor deviations of overall excellent grades.</p>

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<p>If I were an Ivy League admissions officer (and, beware, some may be reading this site even as I write), and I was to accept 1,000 out of my 15,000 applicants, and I heard that a particular applicant was even considering dropping a class in which he was interested because he thought he was getting a B+ rather than an A, I'd drop his application from consideration without a second thought, and without reading any further. There are plenty more fish in the sea.</p>

<p>(Come to think of it, I might be tempted to do the same if I were at Muskogee State, and could get away with it.)</p>

20

<p>The course is a full year course. The school allows students to drop up to a week after the first semester without a recorded grade.</p>