<p>Does Brown have international recognition like it’s other Ivy counterparts? I was thinking of trying my hand out at a gradate program there but wanted to know if taking the degree abroad would be pushing it. Anyone in here from abroad, preferably the EU, and has heard of Brown? </p>
<p>I do hear Simmons is upping the schools name internationally.</p>
<p>Hell yeah, Brown has international recognition. It's Ivy! I can only reply from my experiences (bear in mind that I'm still in high school). This girl from my school got into Brown a few years ago, and she still draws nostalgic memories from the teachers. Also, she definitely raises eyebrows (in a good way!) when she casually tells people 'Yeah, I attend Brown'. So I think it's pretty well-known (at least in this part of the world).</p>
<p>I'm from Switzerland so I'm not EU but pretty much surrounded by EU countries ;-).</p>
<p>Honestly, Brown doesn't have recognition here. I didn't plan to apply to study in the USA until like 1 year ago and before that I never heard of Brown.
Also when I tell people where I'm going to apply, most of them don't know about Brown. Basically, HYP & Berkeley have the big recognition here.</p>
<p>Of course, there are certainly people who know Brown and the quality of the university. People who have been educated or studied abroad in America, people in academia, etc. </p>
<p>Keep in mind that in Europe it's not very important which college you attended. I don't know if this is true for all European countries (UK seems to be an exception with the whole Oxbridge hype) but in Switzerland, employers usually don't care whether you have studied at ETH Zurich, Univ. Zurich, Univ. Geneva or wherever.</p>
<p>Where I live (North india), the only colleges having name recognition (i.e. generally known to the common man) are HYPSM.</p>
<p>Not as much as more prominent universities, e.g., <a href="http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/14321230/site/newsweek/%5B/url%5D">http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/14321230/site/newsweek/</a></p>
<ol>
<li>University of California at San Francisco is very famous here, yes...</li>
</ol>
<p>UCSF may be the best biomedical research institution on the planet - glad it's well known, Rister.</p>
<p>Sheesh... I wasn't bashing UCSF.
Actually I just wanted to point out that this ranking doesn't say much about "international name recognition".</p>
<p>PosterX....the rankings you cite are not answering the same question posed here. This person is asking about name recognition overseas of US colleges. The ranking you linked to is based on the following:</p>
<p>
[quote]
...the number of highly-cited researchers in various academic fields, the number of articles published in Nature and Science, and the number of articles listed in the ISI Social Sciences and Arts & Humanities indices. Another 40 percent of the score came from equal parts of four measures used by the Times: the percentage of international faculty, the percentage of international students, citations per faculty member (using ISI data), and the ratio of faculty to students. The final 10 percent came from library holdings (number of volumes).
[/quote]
</p>
<p>This is an entirely different issue and set of criteria and is not related to name recognition overseas of US schools. It has more to do with which schools are "global" universities involving things like research, international faculty and students, and library holdings. Brown has international students, but is the focus is not so much on a research university but is more focused on undergraduates. It does not have a lot of graduate schools, etc. But none of that is related to the question that the OP posed. But I guess an opportunity to post a ranking, even if not on topic, that puts Yale near the top works for your purposes, as I am not understanding the point here in relation to the question that was asked.</p>
<p>The only criteria in that rating that is a bit related is the percentage of international students. At Yale, 8% of the student body is international and 9% of the freshmen are international. At Brown, 6% of the student body is international and 7% of the freshmen are international. So, in that respect, it is not a significant difference. The difference with the other criteria, such as research, in that ranking does indeed exist, but is not related to whether Europeans recognize the name of Brown or any other US school.</p>
<p>Soozie, it seems that your apparent need is to disregard anything that doesn't place Brown among the top 20 colleges. However, the fact is that the criteria presented by Newsweek's "Top 100 Global Universities" Cover Article ARE directly related to the topic at hand, because all of them are criteria that affect international research. The amount of faculty research, international students, etc., are all metrics that directly affect the world's research community. Thus, any rational person would deduce that they translate directly into the name recognition of a particular university. If Johns Hopkins is publishing thousands of papers that scientists around the world are reading, Johns Hopkins surely enough is going to become better-known than a school that is only publishing a few dozen. If Berkeley attracts thousands upon thousands of world scholars, it is going to become better-known than a school that only has a few hundred. These are just some of the criteria that distinguishe a school as a "global university" - not the only one, for sure. So there's absolutely no need on your part to resort to personal, ad hominem attacks in order to advance your own agenda, soozie - I am ashamed of you.</p>
<p>As far as Brown "focusing" on undergraduates, that may be true relative to say Berkeley, but it is not any different than the other Ivies in this regard. Brown, just like the other Ivies, has a graduate school with thousands of students studying for their PhD degrees with the same faculty who teach the undergraduates. Brown's student to faculty ratio is no better than those of the other Ivies (in fact, it is pretty far behind some of them) nor do undergraduates receive any particular preference that they wouldn't at Harvard, Yale, Princeton, or Cornell. If used vis a vis other top universities, the "focus" is mainly a marketing claim to try to establish difference in the minds of consumers (applicants); if used in general it is correct - Brown is a great school, especially relative to large state university programs, and has easily one of the top 20 or so B.A. programs in the country.</p>
<p>
[quote]
The only criteria in that rating that is a bit related is the percentage of international students. At Yale, 8% of the student body is international and 9% of the freshmen are international. At Brown, 6% of the student body is international and 7% of the freshmen are international. So, in that respect, it is not a significant difference. The difference with the other criteria, such as research, in that ranking does indeed exist, but is not related to whether Europeans recognize the name of Brown or any other US school.
[/quote]
I don't think that these numbers are true. They seem realistic for the undergraduate student body, but when graduate students are taken into account I'm sure that more than 20% of the students are international.</p>
<p>Apart from that I completely agree with you, soozviet.</p>
<p>posterX wrote:
[quote]
Soozie, it seems that your apparent need is to disregard anything that doesn't place Brown among the top 20 colleges.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>This is entirely untrue. I am not disregarding that ranking in Newsweek whatsoever. I see nothing wrong with that ranking. I was saying that I don't think it relates to what this poster was asking, other than one criteria in that ranking that related to percentage of international students attending the colleges. I could care less where Brown ranks. To be frank, I do not follow rankings, and my kids never have either. My own kids, who are now in college, have never even viewed USNews rankings in their life. Neither could tell you where their schools were ranked and neither could I. We never consulted rankings. They picked schools they l loved that met their personal criteria. Rankings are far far removed from anything they ever consider. My older kid who attends Brown, preferred two non-Ivy schools on her list to one of the Ivies she got into. Where Brown is on some ranking is irrelevant to me. </p>
<p>However, this is a Brown forum and you do keep posting various ranking lists (one was architecture and now this one about global universities and international research) and I am not sure the reason behind it, though it comes across as pushing Yale at times. That is my perception. </p>
<p>
[quote]
Thus, any rational person would deduce that....
[/quote]
[quote]
there's absolutely no need on your part to resort to personal, ad hominem attacks in order to advance your own agenda, soozie - I am ashamed of you.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>I have not resorted to a hominem attacks and I do not have an agenda. I think you may have this situation in reverse. </p>
<p>I am not promoting Brown here. I was explaining that the ranking system you brought up when someone was asking if Brown was a name recognized overseas, has a lot more to do with research. I then mentioned that Brown doesn't have a lot of graduate schools. It has PhD programs and a med school. The graduate part of Brown is not that big. There are 1,633 graduate students and 357 students in med school. Yale has 6.074 graduate and professional students. So, I was pointing out that this ranking had a lot to do with research and that Brown, given the numbers I just cited, is not as focused on graduate research as schools with more graduate students and more graduate/professional schools. So, in that regard, this study focused on that and that is not what the poster was asking about. I am NOT disregarding the ranking, nor care about it, but am talking of its relevance to name recognition overseas. The ranking focuses a lot on research and in that area, Brown doesn't have the numbers or focus that institutions with more graduate schools and students would have in that respect. </p>
<p>
[quote]
Brown, just like the other Ivies, has a graduate school with thousands of students studying for their PhD degrees with the same faculty who teach the undergraduates.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>See my comparison above.</p>
<p>My purpose here is NOT to tout Brown. I am not clear your purpose in bringing up a ranking that wasn't what the poster truly was asking. I could care less where Brown ranks in that ranking or in any other ranking, as my kids, nor I, pay attention to rankings and did not use rankings in selecting colleges. I also counsel many students who are selecting colleges and never once has rankings ever entered into any discussions we have had when devising their college lists. </p>
<p>Rister_Chutophs:
Yes, the percentage of international students I posted was just in relation to undergraduates. I understand that the percentage with relation to graduate students would be larger.</p>
<p>Graduate and professional students are two completely different things, soozie - the graduate students study with the same A&S faculty as the undergraduates and often conduct research. They are full time students and often spend all year doing research at the university.</p>
<p>Professional students have their own facilities, faculty, endowments, classrooms, etc. Sometimes they are not even located in the same city as the rest of the university. Professional students are generally not tied to institutional research. They sit in their classes and learn about professions, and usually leave the campus for the summer.</p>
<p>There's a difference between a university having a lot of grad students and having top-notch research and a university having a lot of grad students and having not-so-top-notch research. But they both have a lot of graduate students. Professional students are a completely different thing and do not factor into the equation at all. Your comparison is moot.</p>
<p>I'm glad you agree that the ranking I posted has a lot to do with "research" -- but you might note that "research" includes everything that is shared formally among institutions, science and otherwise, and therefore, the places with the best "research" are generally the ones that people at other institutions know about. However, I will also point out again that it has to do with other things besides "research". Again, if say UC-Berkeley has 1000 famous faculty from countries all over the world and another university has a few dozen, it is going to make a big impact on how well a school is known, especially among the people whose opinions are "important."</p>
<p>It is funny how regional international recognition can be. For instance, one of the most recognized universities in South America is La Sorbonne. It has a lot more cachet to attend that university in France, than to come to the US for exapmle. Also more people know of Stanford and almost no high school students have ever heard from Yale. Harvard as usual is a different story.</p>
<p>It also really depends who you ask. If a Norwegian princess went to Kenyon, I'm sure that college would become well known among some people in Norway. The only recognition that really "matters" is among the international business and academic community, which would be closely tied to the Newsweek ranking. </p>
<p>That said, I agree with MovieBuff that places like Harvard and Yale are the exception -- The Times, the largest newspaper in the United Kingdom, recently said that Harvard and Yale were "the two greatest universities in the world" and have "surpassed" even their own Oxford & Cambridge! Like Oxbridge, they are pretty much well-known everywhere because of their long history as the two largest (prior to 1900) and most prominent (even today) universities in the country. If you go to Japan or China, there are even many "Yale Academies" and "Harvard Schools."</p>
<p>I had always thought that Harvard and Princeton were the most recognizable US universities in the world? I hear that Yale is not as well known as Harvard, Princeton or even Stanford. The people who have heard of Yale are usually in the upper crust of the nation's society. </p>
<p>Now I wasnt expecting Brown to have the same name recognition as Harvard. I mean even kids out in the African countryside and small villages have heard of Harvard. What I was getting at was Brown's international recognition among the academic and business world. I was thinking about working abroad for a while in Europe or the Mid East for a while and I was just wondering how much international recognition Brown had.</p>
<p>Yes, many surveys have shown HY & Oxbridge are the most well-known throughout the world, by a fairly wide margin. The next most well-known universities include Michigan, Berkeley, Princeton, MIT and Stanford. After that it drops off considerably. For an example of how the subject is typically treated in the foreign press, see <a href="http://english.peopledaily.com.cn/200408/10/eng20040810_152405.html%5B/url%5D">http://english.peopledaily.com.cn/200408/10/eng20040810_152405.html</a> - you'll see that, aside from the public universities being discussed, only HYPS are mentioned, and mostly just HY. Although it is time-consuming to separate university mentions from others, using recognizable names in a search of foreign newspaper archives you'll find Harvard & Yale appear in thousands of articles, whereas Johns Hopkins, Dartmouth, Cornell, MIT, Princeton, and Stanford often appear in about 500-1000 and places like Tufts just a couple hundred or so. </p>
<p>In any case, as I said above, this is a silly comparison because the opinions among people who "matter" are what "counts" most. I wouldn't make a decision for or against Brown based on whether you think people have heard of it or not, because clearly it is a top university that influential people will have heard of.</p>
<p>Laymen opinion still counts in my book but very little in comparison to what employers think in the field I am studying. I want to be able to take the degree anywhere and everywhere around the world and have it open several doors. I have options at Brown, Notre Dame, Vanderbilt and Rice University that I could use but I had thought that Brown would be the best investment. What do you guys think?</p>
<p>Brown is probably better known for delivering packages. What can Brown do for you? ha</p>
<p>Yes, you'll be able to do that with a Brown degree. In most fields, you'll have a slight advantage over Notre Dame, Vandy and Rice.</p>