Does cheating pay?

Parents Forum
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<p>We have repeatedly told our kids to do their best in school, that grades DO matter, but don't cheat. But, according to my oldest son, he is just about the only one who doesn't. Yes, he's had some C's and and even a D, but at least they are his work and he was honest. His argument: "How do I tell that on a college application? That, although I'm not in the top 10 percent of my class, at least those grades are really mine?" Luckily, he got in a good school.</p>

<p>My beef is this: they just announced class valedictorian. A girl who is smart, but who my son has seen cheat a number of times. He even mentioned it once to a teacher, who admitted he had caught her trying to cheat. But she never gets turned in, because her daddy is on the school board.</p>

<p>As a parent, what should we do? Tell our kid to cheat, too, to even up the playing field again? Or to be honest and just live with the results?</p>

2

<p>"Does cheating pay? "</p>

<p>Yes.</p>

3

<p>Sadly, you are not alone in your dilemma. Stuff like you've described happens. There is probably nothing you can do to help the current situation if the school administration is too cosy with the cheater's parents. Since there are no documented incidents, if you try to complain, you might be seen as a bitter tattletale.
I have always told my children: real life is not high school. Your school is doing this girl a huge disservice by turning a blind eye at her cheating. If she tries to repeat this in college, she will be punished. If she does go through college and is never caught, she might do it on the job. Then the consequences will be severe (Enron, anyone?). If she goes into medicine or science, a single act of cheating will mean the end of her career. She might still get away, but it is much better to sleep with a clear conscience than with a burden of always being afraid to be caught.</p>

4

<p>I was at book club this month and a parent was telling how her freshman son was dismayed about the amount of cheating that was going on in his classes. According to him the kids have a system down with hand and finger signs/signals. What?!?!?!?! I had never heard of this before. Really???? My Ds said they had never seen this in their classes because they are too intent on their own work. Do you really think this happens????</p>

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<p>My S has seen plenty of cheating at his high school. It pays in the short run, if they don't get caught, however, it can definitely hurt them later. For example, some kids at my S's school took an AP science class that they knew they weren't willing to do the work for from week one, and instead of dropping it and taking something else, they cheated and got a good grades without knowing hardly anything. And these kids are going to major in this area in college! None of them continued with the class second semester and ruined their chances at their top choice privates, although they did get into the state flagship.</p>

<p>If they are going to continue with their planned majors, they are going to have to learn it at some point. They could have applied themselves in HS and gotten a head start on college. The material didn't come easy for my S either, and he worked really hard to master the subject. He got his first choice admission, and he is now the smiling one.</p>

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<p>A girl I knew in high school who cheated all the time was suspended by Stanford for a semester for cheating there...it will catch up with the person.</p>

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<p>It can pay in the short-run and long-run. All you have to do is look at a bunch of Wall Street executives to see that. Some get caught - and end up coming out of prison as billionaires (Mike Millken, Martha Stewart, et al.) Most don't get caught. </p>

<p>Cheating is a "high risk" approach for individuals, subject to the same risk/reward calculus as any other human activity. As to whether one should do it, well that's an ethical issue.</p>

<p>Oscar Schindler was a cheater. For years, he took millions of dollars in Nazi government money in contracts to produce weapons, and made sure that not a single one was usable. Cheating of the highest order. Had they figured it out, he would have been shot. Contextually, in real life, we think of him as a hero.</p>

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<p>There's cheating now, there was in the past, and will be in the future. Most of the time, people get away with it and yes, it "pays." Every now and then, someone gets caught and his or her life is destroyed. Then the cheating seems silly. </p>

<p>A few years back, there was a HUGE cheating scandal at the U of Virginia. Some degrees were revoked rectroactively. Imagine being out of college two or three years and being notified that you had to come defend yourself against charges that you did not write one of your papers yourself. If you weren't able to defend yourself, your degree would be revoked. Some people had cheated and did get their degrees revoked. </p>

<p>I'm sure that on graduation day, those who cheated never dreamed that there was any chance they would get "caught" years later. We've had several examples of that in other contexts--Merilee Jones, anyone?</p>

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<p>Unfortunately "cheating does pay" at the high school level in many districts with a higher GPA but sometimes this gets reflected in a lower ACT score at my kids school. My children report that cheating is fairly rampant. The school just changed the way it designates senior honors from a straight unweighted GPA to a formulaic approach combing GPA, ACT scores and class rigor. I'm disgusted with the volume of cheating these days.</p>

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<p>What do you think it is that keeps those of us who don't from cheating? Is it morality, fear of being caught or more the desire to know you achieved what you achieved by your own efforts.</p>

<p>I have a very strong intrinsic personal prohibition on cheating. I think it can be traced to my hyper competitive nature. I HAVE to know that I earned it so I can brag with a clear conscience ;)</p>

<p>Why do you not cheat??</p>

11

<p>In the past few years, there has been a huge cheating/plagiarism scandal in the engineering program at Ohio University. The head of the department (and I believe some other professors as well) were forced to resign for turning a blind eye to what was going on. Several dozen students had their degrees questioned/revoked, and a good number had to defend and/or re-do their theses .</p>

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<p>The only time I cheat is when they ask me my height and weight for my drivers license. ( over/under- by just a tad- * no I haven't gained any weight since I was 18 and got my license why do you ask? * it's only been 32 years- ) ;) </p>

<p>Otherwise I always am truthful,those with memories like mine have a hard enough time remembering what is accurate,let alone trying to figure out how to cheat.</p>

13

<p>The question can be viewed through the lens of Game</a> Theory:</p>

<p>
[quote]
..."Game theory provides a model for social organizations and cooperation between individuals. It assumes that people are rational actors. Game theory uses a theoretical construct that sets aside affection or altruism or a sense of solidarity as factors in cooperation. In the classic Prisoner’s Dilemma of game theory, people will rationally cheat each other and engage in opportunism unless something prevents them from doing so. In game theory, cheating and cooperation are rational choices. If I cheat you today, I won’t be able to cooperate with you tomorrow. The theory is intuitively correct for bilateral relationships, but obviously doesn’t explain why a thousand people might choose to cooperate. If it did, then we’d have lots of cooperation and very little government, because people would always fear that someone would see them acting badly (cheating) and tell others, so no one would rationally choose to cheat...

[/quote]
</p>

<p>And through the lens of [url=<a href="http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m1200/is_4_166/ai_n6151880%5DEvolution%5B/url"&gt;http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m1200/is_4_166/ai_n6151880]Evolution[/url&lt;/a&gt;] as well:</p>

<p>
[quote]
Charles Darwin's theory of natural selection seems to describe a brutal world in which creatures compete ruthlessly to promote their own survival. Yet biologists observe that animals and even lower organisms often behave altruistically. A vervet monkey who spots a leopard, for instance, warns his fellow monkeys, even though the call may attract the leopard's attention to the individual. A vampire bat that has hunted successfully shares nourishing blood with a fellow bat that failed to find prey.</p>

<p>Such behavior is obviously beneficial for the species as a whole. However, natural selection postulates that successful organisms act to propagate their own genes. If selfish animals can take advantage of more-generous peers, how has any generous behavior survived the mill of natural selection? Darwin himself pondered this puzzle. Focusing on human evolution, he wrote in 1871 that "he who was ready to sacrifice his life, ... rather than betray his comrades, would often leave no offspring to inherit his noble nature."</p>

<p>Somehow, the altruistic behaviors observed in the wild must benefit the giver as well as the receiver. However, pinpointing how this works in animal populations is a huge challenge. In most cases, it's impossible to measure precisely how an animal's cooperative behavior affects its chances for survival and reproduction.</p>

<p>Now, theoretical research is starting to fill in the picture of how cooperation may survive natural selection. Some of the most illuminating ideas are coming from game theory, the field of mathematics that studies strategic behavior in competitive situations...

[/quote]
</p>

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<p>LOL Emeraldkitty! Guess I am a cheater, too! ummm...errrr...I seem to have no problem cheating on my diet, too! ;)sigh........</p>

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<p>Whether or not you believe in “Karma”, cheating is primarily a self deception. Even if no one else knows you’ve cheated, you certainly do. This leads to low self esteem and all of the mental and physical manifestations associated with it. So, no, cheating does not pay.</p>

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<p>cheating is primarily a self deception.
Agreed but, coffee Haggen Daz is worth it at the time :D</p>

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<p>I remember cheating in eighth-grade. I would have gotten an A on my own, but looking at the answer sheets just made sure I got that A. It's funny that I remember that now. I would be appalled if my kids acted as dishonestly now as I did then.</p>

<p>That said, I now hold myself and others to a higher standard. My neighbor's daughter, who graduated this month from college, called me several weeks ago wanting help with a paper. She needed to interview a mom of daughters who was against the HPV vaccine in person. Uh, I have boys, I'm not against the HPV vaccine and wasn't going to do it on the phone like she wanted. Mind you, she had WEEKS until this interview had to happen, so why was she calling me that night in a panic hoping that I'd lie on three counts for her??? I found her a mom with a daughter ...</p>

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<p>StitchInTime,
Good stuff :)</p>

<p>The</a> Prisoner's Dilemma</p>

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<p>EK - ROFL! Since I use a scientific approach to most things, I weiged myself before I went to the DOL the other day for my license renewal. Waiting in line there made me so hungry I stopped by a McDonalds on my way home and could not resist a cheesburger and some other junk. Stepped on the scales at home and was shocked - I apparently cheated, too! ;) Still a cheater, LOL, until my next visit to the DOL. That Mickey D's stuff sticks to you forever.</p>

<p>Cheating in business is one thing. In science, a fudged result can be career-ending for the cheater. Someone will eventually attempt to reproduce your published results, especially if they are so fantastic that the entire field becomes excited about them. And if one lab casts a shadow of a doubt on high-profile results, there will be others trying to prove/disprove them. Sometimes people make honest mistakes, but sometimes cheating researchers fudge their numbers in hopes of seeing their names on the cover of Science. And in the latter case, when caught, the cheaters can kiss their career goodbye.</p>

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<p>coffee Haggen Daz is worth it at the time</p>

<p>There's a reason why they say cheaters have trouble looking in the mirror ;)</p>