Does having no EC's ruin my chances?

Applying to College
61

<p>As a mother of a son who is similar to the OP, I would just like to suggest that you consider the top Canadian universities. Like most European universities they only look at grades, academic rigor of your courses, and test scores. No essays. No ECs. McGill University and University of Toronto both have excellent international reputations. Waterloo is good at sci/tech subjects, I think. At least consider them as safeties.</p>

<p>Best wishes. And I think you will find university life more congenial to your academic interests.</p>

62

<p>I think if the OP goes through this thread, he will realize the folly of his thinking, at least for Admittance to MIT:</p>

<p><a href="http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/showthread.php?t=272448&page=8%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/showthread.php?t=272448&page=8&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>To everyone who seems to think MIT accepts people randomly:
Have you been to their info sessions or read their website? Or on Collegeboard look at how important different factors of the application are? They make it quite clear that they're looking for quirky, creative, adventurous students - not perfect grades and SAT scores. So, in essence, the most scrutinized parts of the application will be the essays, and then perhaps recommendations and interviews along with the normal stuff like grades and scores. In other words, it's impossible to predict whether someone will get in or not with the information in the stats primer you're using. So stop trying!....</p>

<p>...* The most important thing for MIT: I think the best piece of advice they give you (something that is consistent for all the accepted students whose profiles I've read) is to exhaust every opportunity you have. Then look for new ones. If there aren't any, make some. Find some. Get yourself some. Bother other people for some. And if that means doing something outside of school or something no one you know has ever done, so be it. All the better. Then tell MIT about it.....</p>

<p>also the Caltech thread:</p>

<p><a href="http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/showthread.php?t=274361&page=8%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/showthread.php?t=274361&page=8&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>don't see alot of video game and poker ecs for accepted students...darn</p>

63

<p>lol. guys dont stab me for this, but iin77 has an interesting personality, which is something college dont see often. make this stand out in your essays, but dont make it sound too anti-philanthropic</p>

64

<p>citygirlsmom:</p>

<p>Why are you so hell bent on believing that no one wants to just spend all their time learning? It is something I have done since I was about 4 years old and continue to do even if I am not in school. I don't have a single regret about it either, I did not want to do sports or do some other stupid activity that would prevent me from doing what I love. (I did do chess club in junior high and placed 2nd in the tournament we had). Learning is very enjoyable for some people. I also am not alone, I have been with the same boyfriend for 3 years and I have a very good family and a small group of close friends. Stop placing importance on how social someone must be. It is not the most important thing.</p>

<p>Maybe your daughter just wants high grades and then to be a social butterfly, but all of us are not social butterflies who are trying to skim by.</p>

<p>It is best to find a school that fits you and not try to conform yourself to fit that school. It'd be best for him to find a school that appreciates genuine intelligence instead of just accepting him based on how he looks on a piece of paper. Maybe that means no MIT. But maybe MIT isn't going to be the best for what he wants in the long run.</p>

65

<p>Citygirlsmom, you apparantly have exceedingly little real world experience (despite your haughty claims of adulthood) considering your readiness to stick labels on people. People aren't so easily defined. I think you need to go out into the world and really meet a lot more people so that you can realize this. All the sudden people are just "late bloomers" or "cynics." Is that my label? A late bloomer? It couldn't just be because when I switched to a college, I was surrounded by brilliant college professors who care about the subject material, as opposed to a bunch of lazy high school teachers who don't even know what they are talking about?</p>

<p>I don't know what fantasy world you live in, but I was in no position to volunteer at a museum where I lived, let alone a science museum. A zoo? What zoo? Where is this zoo? Sponsor a book drive? I thought you just said learning wasn't about books. </p>

<p>And I never said he should walk my path. He apparantly is already on a very different path if he is getting good grades in high school. I never did. I am just irked by your posts because you are so quick to judge somebody you know very little about. You stereotype people while talking about how much of an experienced adult you are. You don't sound like much to me, in fact you sound exactly like what you are describing.</p>

66

<p>Kailyn, great post
And Gfred too</p>

67

<p>what I find ironic is this:</p>

<p>the Op dislikes the poor thinks they are lazy and YET, he expects a fullride because he is poor</p>

<p>by his own logic, he should get NO HELP at all for college, according to his vision of the world and others</p>

<p>where does he think that money comes from, from people like ME,who thinks that everyone deserves a chance</p>

<p>if the OP was TRUELY genuine, he wouldn't accept that fullride, because according to him poor people don't deserve any help</p>

<p>go ahead, think what you will of me, and what path are we talking about here...there is no "path"</p>

<p>I find it rehensbile that a person would pigeon hoie poor people as being lazy, and the OP is very narrow minded in that regard, but hey, don't call HIM on that</p>

<p>Let him just study and play games all day, yeah, that's fullfilling and useful in the world</p>

<p>Yeah, I labeled him, that is how the world works, you don't think colleges will? if you don't you are being very naive... that is how it works and if he bothered to look at the people that got into his dream schools, he would see that just following his special tiny path is just not enough in this big world...many kids love learning and I admire that, but somehow they manage to ALSO be part of the world and see beyond poker....so this well he is on his own special path is just an excuse for not bothering to do much beyond his little world</p>

<p>as for genunine intelligence, sorry, don't see it, maybe book smart, but that is not intelligence, DOING something with what you learn, THAT is a sign of intelligence, being able to regurgiate facts does not an intelligent person make, finding ways to apply it is</p>

<p>and wow, nice try with throwing the book drive back at me, pathetic, but nice try</p>

<p>all these excuses are geting really old for doing nothing, seriously</p>

<p>unless you live in a cave, there is always something one can do</p>

<p>again, let us see how "genuine" the OP his with his "fullride" because he is poor</p>

<p>I for one think everyone that wants to go to college should have that chance, and wish that all those that have financial need, that those needs were met...</p>

<p>And too bad for the Op that generous donors give to schools so that he can get that fullride, and tax dollars etc are going to help him out...how silly of us, since he is poor he must be lazy...if those people thought that all poor were lazy, like the OP, then they wouldn't bother to donate so those poor kids could go to school</p>

68

<p>None of us have any idea if this guy is any smart or not, so I don't know why you keep going back to that. Why do you find it so rehensible that he labels all poor people lazy if "THAT IS THE WORLD?" Yay for more hypocracy. </p>

<p>You are a very negative person. You read his post, ignore anything positive, and focus only a few bad things. It started out by him saying that his interests include RUNNING, PROGRAMMING, poker, and video games, and that he could give any of them up.</p>

<p>You later transform this into some sort of bizarre view of a kid who does nothing but reads books and plays games all day. Right. </p>

<p>I don't know this kid from his post. Even if he is twice as bad as you are making him out to be, I'd still say he is a far better person than you, judging from your own posts.</p>

69

<p>

I don't know why you seem to equate getting good grades, being involved in activities, and having a social life with grade-grubbing and "trying to skim by", or a love of learning with studying all the time and having no other interests. </p>

<p>I'm teaching myself a fourth language, spent middle school reading style manuals to teach myself to write in English after moving from Europe to the US, taught myself Photoshop and webdesign, and have had people tell me that I "always read such interesting books" (that's not just literature, but neuroscience, philosophy, evolutionary biology, linguistics, memoirs, etc) ... yet I'm a section editor and photography editor of my school newspaper, take photography courses outside of school, am an officer in my school's chapter of Amnesty International, and so on. Has it ever occurred to you that love of learning and involvement with the outside world aren't mutually exclusive? </p>

<p>Regardless of the OP's opinion of the poor, which is just sad, spending your life taking in knowledge and using up resources without contributing anything in return IS selfish. I think colleges see value in not just acquiring knowledge, but using that knowledge to accomplish something good and useful. I agree with advantagious (post</a> #19); the OP just comes off as a cynical misanthrope. If I were an admissions officer, I would not admit such a student.</p>

70

<p>But you AREN'T an admissions officer, and that probably is for the best. Because someone with a real view of himself is valuable. He doesn't lie, he doesn't pretend to be something he isn't, he is pretty straightfoward. Now most people are pretty much in denial of what they are.</p>

<p>For some reason, I want to say I doubt a lot of what you say you've done. Maybe it's the way you talk, or the way you say that everyone isn't going to get into such and such college because they don't live up to your paper perfect expectations. But it's something.</p>

<p>So you have some interests that don't involve learning and that fit the super special stereotype mold. We aren't all like that. Everyone here, I can assure if you polled them, have very different interests. Mine are science, music, religion, dance, and helping animals. We aren't all interested in people activities.</p>

<p>The OP may be a cynic, I am most definitely too. But honestly, people like you are the ones that help imbed in our minds that most humans are just really really rude. YOU ARE VERY NEGATIVE TOO. Why not try to help him and offer friendly advice instead of telling him pretty much that you hate everything he thinks, don't like his activities, and demand he does something else? You aren't helping.</p>

<p>Woops, thought you were citygirlsmom. Directed to both.</p>

71

<p>question, how can th OP run 6-10 miles a day, but have chronic stomach pains that keep him out of school? for 50 days so far this year...for someone who can't go to school but claim they can run 6-10 miles a day, me wonders how much of this stuff he says is true</p>

<p>if you claim you can run like that but are such pain you can't attend class, I sense some problem here</p>

<p>I am going by what the OP told us about himself, while he judges all poor people, while knowing nothing at all about them as being lazy, well he is poor, so guess he is lazy by his own logic, so there you go</p>

<p>from the OP
" I don't care about poor people--all they have to do is try like I do,</p>

<p>Who cares?</p>

<p>Does being born into a poor family in a region devoid of inspiration and aspiration counterfeit all my other credentials?</p>

<p>I don't care about people who obviously don't care about themselves. Poor people are lazy. I know it first hand. My parents are incredibly lazy, they never finish anything, and they don't aspire for greater things. Consequently, they're poor.</p>

<p>I haven't studied all that much in high school. </p>

<p>I don't think that conforming to the rest of society makes me a better person, considering society is largely composed of fools and is made to protect fools. Society wants me to help those who refuse to do anything for themselves and find a passion in something that doesn't really matter.</p>

<p>To northstarmom: I'm aiming for elite schools. I'd prefer MIT or Caltech, but UChicago, UPenn, Columbia, Stanford, and some others would be all right.</p>

<p>I'd say there's a pretty strong correlation between a person's intelligence and the degree to which they analyze the world around them.</p>

<p>you know... I've missed 420 hours (at least, its above 60 days--a full trimester, lol) this year so far, but my total hours would be 1260</p>

<p>To answer Xeneise's questions:</p>

<ol>
<li><p>I said I'm failing all my classes but one. I'm just projecting that I will make up the work in time for finals and get good grades. In fact, I took an AP Calculus test a couple days ago and got 100%.</p></li>
<li><p>I haven't had this severe of stomach aches for too long, only two months. It's winter, so I don't have any sports. I would play sports through stomach aches before now, but I also went to school during that time. I've had chronic stomachaches for over a year and a half, but not this bad.</p></li>
<li><p>Part of it is that I don't need to go to school and I don't have an overwhelming urge to go to school. It's a lot easier to stop doing work whenever I feel bad when I'm at home, as well.</p></li>
</ol>

<p>Also, I don't understand what you me by "believing" me. There isn't really anything to not believe.</p>

<p>nickel, I would take a year off from school if I was dropped from all my classes, but until then, I might as well just do all the work at home.</p>

<p>That seems absolutely ridiculous to me. I <em>am</em> antisocial (in an introversial way, not a nerdy/geeky way), but I don't really care and neither does anyone else. </p>

<p>I haven't really taken any of my tests. I go in my high school around once every two weeks to get some homework."</p>

<p>so...what is truth....he takes a test, but then he doesn't he is sick, but he can run 6-10 miles a day</p>

<p>the poster is not being genuine as he claims</p>

72

<p>btw, i did offer advice, but the OP just doesn't care, and I find him a bit of a fake...sorry if that offends, but when I see that he can't go to school because of an Illness, and then claims he can run that much, and then on THIS thread doesn't even mention not going to school, his illness which he is seeing a therapist for but is fighting the therapy, who call all poor people lazy, yet expect a full ride because he is poor, no, I don't see genuine at all, I see a person giving half the facts, who says that he can go to college though he can't go to HS</p>

<p>you can think the Op is this independent person going his own way, I don't see it that way, and gee, I am just judging from what he has said here, imagine what an admissions person will see from essays that talk about poker and video games, and you mention running, how is he running if he can't manage to even go to school he is so sick</p>

<p>also, interesting that he didn't mention here he is failing all but one of his classes currently...jsut a thought about being genuine</p>

<p>I am sorry he is sick, but he is getting help, just thinks it is a waste of his time</p>

73

<p>okay, someone said I should be helpful</p>

<p><a href="http://www.cedar-rapids.org/ushers/ufhv_links.html%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.cedar-rapids.org/ushers/ufhv_links.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p><a href="http://www.crma.org/%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.crma.org/&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p><a href="http://www.volunteermatch.org/bymsa/m1360/c/opp1.html%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.volunteermatch.org/bymsa/m1360/c/opp1.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p><a href="http://www.volunteermatch.org/results/opp_detail.jsp?oppid=303373%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.volunteermatch.org/results/opp_detail.jsp?oppid=303373&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p><a href="http://www.groovejob.com/browse/internships/in/IA/Iowa/Cedar%20Rapids%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.groovejob.com/browse/internships/in/IA/Iowa/Cedar%20Rapids&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p><a href="http://www.gcrcf.org/page30991.cfm%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.gcrcf.org/page30991.cfm&lt;/a>
(the OP mentioned wanting to go into medicine)</p>

<p>that should help</p>

74

<p>I am very surprised that this discussion is so lopsided. I have news for the posters who are adament that citygirlsmom and others not judge the OP negatively: we have all had the same access and info from the OP. We are ALL judging him from his posts--whether that judgement be negative or postitive, it is a judgement. You may think that the OP is the best thing since sliced bread, but we have every bit as much of a right to "judge" him. </p>

<p>I'm just not very sympathetic to the OP. As I acknowledged in my earlier post, I DO think that you should do what YOU want to do with your life. But the OP is a highly unattractive applicant to the top colleges. I have read NUMEROUS college advice books...every.single.one. of these books has made it clear that uninvolved, bitter, cynical (whether you agree with the OP or not, he is certainly these things) applicants are not going to find a lot of sympathy in the admissions office. That's just the way it is at these schools--quite frankly, the oblique statement that one "loves to learn" and the mere prediction of high test scores (also an arrogant assumption, I'll point out) are not enough to get in. Yes, every year a few TRUE academic whirlwinds (perfect grades, test scores, National awards/research) will be admitted with few/mediocre extras. As in, they only belonged to a few clubs. The OP doesn't even have that much going on, apparently. </p>

<p>I don't find his personality particularly laudable, even ignoring his disturbing and upsetting feelings about the impoverished. I guess the good parts of his personality that people here have glommed onto would be that he works hard at school and doesn't want to join a bunch of activities that he has no interest in. Beyond that, this is what I (and the admissions officers, in all liklihood) see: a kid who claims to love learning, but doesn't seem to have learned much. He doesn't want to waste his time with lazy poor people and just kind of does stuff (even his hobbies) just because (he would quit with little protest). I guess he struck a nerve with other ****ed off people who seem to think he walks on water, but he sounds like someone that I would never want to meet. If he comes across this poorly in his applications, his personality alone will spell rejection.</p>

75

<p><a href="http://www.mitadmissions.org/topics/schools/what_we_look_for/index.shtml%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.mitadmissions.org/topics/schools/what_we_look_for/index.shtml&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p><a href="http://www.mitadmissions.org/topics/schools/what_we_look_for/index.shtml%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.mitadmissions.org/topics/schools/what_we_look_for/index.shtml&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>from the MIT website</p>

<p>One of the challenges of attending MIT is learning to balance a healthy social and extracurricular life with a demanding workload. Most adjusting takes place during freshman year and is facilitated by pass/no record grading in the first term. By the end of freshman year, students generally understand how to balance their time between work and fun.</p>

<p>Far from burying themselves in the library every night, MIT students pursue their college experiences through a variety of activities and venues.</p>

<p>Although schoolwork is important to MIT students, extracurricular participation is the rule rather than the exception. Approximately 80% of MIT undergraduates participate in athletics - 20% join varsity teams, 73% play intramural sports, and 10% play club sports. Over 330 activities are recognized by the Association of Student Activities, and all of these groups enjoy robust participation. More than 60% of the student body is involved with the arts....</p>

<p>We are looking for students who fall in line with MIT's educational philosophy - students who want to invent, enact change, and better society. We want students who have demonstrated initiative and dedication, risk-taking and resiliency as well as strong interpersonal skills. Due to the self-selective nature of our applicant pool, MIT tends to see a large number of applicants with very strong academic qualifications. Our task is to find those whose accomplishments are truly outstanding; students who are the best match for us based on our culture.</p>

76

<p>I didn't want to "talk to old people" either before a couple summers ago. Then, to get necessary volunteer hours for school/college, I sort-of-unwillingly went to work at a nursing home. After a couple days, I loved it! I learned that "old people" were way cooler than I thought...they all had incredible stories and interesting things to teach me. So maybe sometimes buckling down and doing things one doesn't want to do can also be a learning experience. Whether or not you LIKE serving soup in a soup kitchen is not the point...seeing people who live on the "other side of the tracks" is an eye-opening, learning experience. A lot of learning is not "fun," and it can take maturity to do it. Honestly, most of the learning we'll all end up doing is in life, and ECs really do help a lot with that. ECs help students work with and lead others, which are necessary life lessons.<br>
Plus, a lot of life involves jumping through hoops. Yeah, it sucks, but that's the way it is. Just find some hoops in an area you like.</p>

77

<p>as well, CalTech is in the process of upgrading, as it were, its admissions criteria, with much more empahsis than in times past on Ec and outside activities</p>

<p>hope that helped</p>

78

<p>I'm not sure where the OP mentioned that he wanted to go into medicine but if that's indeed the case he's going to need an attitude adjustment.</p>

79

<p>My D have done lots of volunteer work, and you know what, one got a job from the contacts she made, and a good summer job at that, and my youngest just got her fantasy internship job becuase of people she met at all her other volunteering</p>

<p>they also met some wonderful people from all walks of life, grew from their experiences, and loved every minute</p>

<p>so it saddens me to see such a cynic who cares so little for other, and yet claims they want to do medicine to help others (oh yeah and make oodles of money)</p>

<p>and I don't like the lack of forthcoming from the OP with regards to current GPA...guess you can call me hypocrtical if you want....</p>

80

<p>by the OP</p>

<p>I'm a junior in high school, I'm very smart, and fairly confident I can get into whatever school I want. I'm very interested in the sciences: physics, chemistry, and computer science especially and, to some extent, biology. I had never even given a thought to becoming a doctor until this year when my physics teacher was talking about being an EMT in high school. Everyone else in the class thought it would be scary being an EMT, but I thought it would be pretty cool.</p>

<p>I've always found the possibility of altering the human lifespan, "playing God," and things like that very interesting. Up until now, I've wanted to go into nanotechnology or biotechnology... something like that.</p>

<p>I'm completely antisocial and generally get nervous about stupid things... so I don't know how I'd handle being a doctor, first of all. But I <em>would</em> like to help people and make lots of money of course =-). I know I can be successful in anything I do, so I just want to know if anyone has an opinion about where I should go from here.</p>