Does he really need more schools?

Parents Forum
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<p>Long time lurker, but first time posting here. :) I read the thread about whether a list was too "reach-heavy" and it made me concerned about the list DS has compiled. He only has six schools on it and the consensus on that thread seemed to be that a kid with good stats needs to apply to a minimum of 10-12. DS would like to major in Biochem/Molecular Bio, with the intent of going into research, not premed, and has the following stats:</p>

<p>ACT - 35 (one sitting) +10 on Writing section (only a 32 on Math, which is still 99th %, but lower than hoped)
Potential NMSF (and has SAT scores to confirm for NMF)
GPA - 4.0 UW
SATII - Bio- 770, Math II - 750
APs - APUSH - 5, AP Lang - 5, AP Bio - 5 + taking 4 more APs next year, plus Honors Anatomy and Physio. (Other courses were generally Honors level, except for things like Health, etc)
Top 10% (realistically Top 5% or better, but the school just awards Top 10%)
Solid depth in extracurriculars including XC, and good service and leadership, but nothing super-outstanding</p>

<p>His college preferences are somewhat whimsical (as far as I can tell) and inflexible, and have made putting a list together pretty difficult. With basically one exception, he does not want to go to school in the Northeast or Midwest. He just really doesn't like winter. His dad and I really prefer that he stay in the Eastern half of the country...which basically means we are limited to the Southeast. He also prefers small-midsized schools because he prefers to be in smaller classes, with class discussion. Like everyone, he needs some merit $ to be able to attend many places, since our EFC is ridiculous. In order of his preference at this point, he has</p>

<p>Stanford (Our exception to the Eastern half rule!)
WUSTL (his midwest exception. But, even if he gets in, I doubt that they would give him enough $ to attend.)
Emory
U of RIchmond
U of Alabama - Honors College<br>
Small in-state LAC (which he really does not want to attend, but would give him $$)</p>

<p>We looked at Rhodes, and for some reason he ruled that out. I think he should include U of Miami, but he is not interested in south FL at all! I think I can get him to include Vanderbilt on his list, but after driving through it when he was about 14 yrs old, he has determined that he doesn't like it for some reason...says it's "too urban"?! He also recently said that "if" he doesn't make it into Stanford (I keep hammering that he only has a 5% chance, which he says he understands, but I'm not sure that he does!), he will apply to Yale. He is planning to apply to Stanford SCEA, but after reading that other thread, I am now wondering if that's not a good strategy...?</p>

<p>So, with that list, is 6 enough??</p>

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<p>

Maybe that would be right for that student. It’s not necessary. My 2 DDs had stats similar to your S’s and applied to five schools.</p>

<p>If your S doesn’t want to attend the LAC why is it on the list? It’s a waste of an application fee, especially if he’s happy to attend Alabama.</p>

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<p>As long as he would be happy going to U of Alabama if he is rejected everywhere else, then the list is fine. If he wavers at all on that, then it is probably a good idea to find a few safety/matches that he would like.</p>

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<p>Erin’s Dad, the LAC is on the list because I’m not 100% convinced he is sold on Alabama, due to its size. My concern is that when it’s decision time in April, he won’t be happy with that as an option, and I want him to have a small, affordable option available to him “just in case.” But, he is planning to apply to the CBHP at Alabama, and I think if he were to get that, he would definitely be happy there. At this point, I think he is telling us he would be happy at Alabama only because I don’t think any part of him actually believes that it will ever need to be an option…</p>

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<p>Alabama will give an automatic full tuition scholarship for his stats; if the remaining cost of about $15,000 per year is affordable, then it is a safety. If he likes it, then there is no reason to apply to the “Small in-state LAC (which he really does not want to attend, but would give him $$)”, and there is no real need to add more schools since he has Alabama as a safety (though he can add more schools if he likes).</p>

<p>On the other hand, if he does not like Alabama or the “Small in-state LAC”, then he may need to replace them with an actual safety that he likes. Perhaps look at this list:
<a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/financial-aid-scholarships/1348012-automatic-full-tuition-full-ride-scholarships-18.html#post15895768[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/financial-aid-scholarships/1348012-automatic-full-tuition-full-ride-scholarships-18.html#post15895768&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>If additional reach/match options are under consideration, look at this list:
<a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/financial-aid-scholarships/1461983-competitive-full-tuition-full-ride-scholarships-2.html#post15889078[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/financial-aid-scholarships/1461983-competitive-full-tuition-full-ride-scholarships-2.html#post15889078&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

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<p>Have you run the net price calculators at each school? They are usually pretty accurate unless you have a small business, trusts, or are divorced (then assume the NPC is too optimistic). If you can’t afford what the calculator shows, then you have to think hard about whether to let him apply to any of the colleges that are too expensive.</p>

<p>I don’t think his list is too reach heavy academically. The question is whether it is too reach-heavy financially based on your comments. You need to assess that NOW and tell him if there are schools you won’t be able to afford.</p>

<p>My D applied to eight schools (she was high stats as well). One thing that was helpful was being able to take the FA package from one schools and show it to another school when asking them to “review” their FA award. Because the schools were comparable, the school that had offered less FA upped their grant offer for freshman year. Not all schools will do this, but having more FA offers in hand can be helpful that way.</p>

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<p>I think he should have an alternative to Alabama that he likes. But both my kids had essentially 5-6 reaches and two safeties. There’s no way either of them would have filled out one more application!</p>

<p>I agree that if finances are going to be an issue, you may want a bigger list.</p>

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<p>Have run NPCs at all places and have been very open with him about finances. Have told him repeatedly that without money, WUSTL will not happen. Stanford is do-able. Emory may be do-able, same with Richmond. He has a sister a year ahead of him, which is actually somewhat of a help, in that yes, our EFC goes up a bit, but, it will be split, making a private option that meets 100% need much more “affordable.”</p>

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<p>If you and the student are happy with the list and the potential prices and the student would attend any one of the colleges on the list, I can’t see any reason to add more. About the only reason to add more in my opinion than 5 or 6, is if the kid has something in their transcript (like a learning disability) or there is no money for college and the student needs to rely entirely upon the college giving aid. </p>

<p>In my opinion most kids who have long lists (10 or more)have them because they haven’t really done their homework about what they want or they are “fishing” for acceptances with lots of reach schools or they need alot - a whole lot - of financial aid (more than $5000 - $10,000 which can come with just a modicum of research). But that is just my opinion.</p>

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<p>If the PSAT score is in there (see the NMSF threads) then there are lots of schools he can add to the list. I believe the Arizona schools still offer an excelent package, as does Oklahoma. Remember he only gets to designate one so make sure to visit the candidates before he makes his choice. </p>

<p>Congrats by the way what a smart kid !</p>

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<p>The PSAT score is a couple of points higher than the state’s highest ever (2 yrs ago), but scores seem high this year, so don’t want to count on anything. We are crossing our fingers though. :slight_smile: Thanks!</p>

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<p>When looking at big school honors colleges - pay attention to how many honors classes the students actually take and class size. My dd had similiar stats as your son and wanted the “big university” experience with small classes. She chose University of South Carolina because of many reasons but the class size for honors college caps at 20. She is scheduled for 14 of her 17 hours in honors her first semester. They are generous with scholarship money for stats like your son also. It does get more and more competitive but he should get a nice scholarship offer.</p>

<p>Goodluck! BTW - my dd had 14 on her original list to apply and ended up only applying to 6. It worked out fine!!!</p>

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<p>ahsmuoh, makes a very good point about the honors colleges. My S has similar stats and is considering Alabama, and I had a couple of private messages telling me that their children had difficulty getting Honors classes in at Bama. Several people have mentioned South Carolina to me recently too…</p>

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<p>Barrett Honors College at ASU…hey nice and hot down here!</p>

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<p>Tulane? I know they gave merit $ to my friend’s daughter. My own D is at Emory and we were appalled at how non-existent the fin aid is.</p>

<p>Wake Forest? </p>

<p>Is Duke too much of a reach?</p>

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<p>I’m not saying you shouldn’t add more colleges to the list, but please do not have your son apply to more colleges just because that’s what other students are doing. It can lead to unnecessary work, cost, and frustration, and it’s really not necessary. Your son should add a school to his list if it’s somewhere he wants to attend. It seems like you are considering everything you should: what schools you can reasonably afford, what schools your son is likely to get into, and what schools he would like to attend. As long as you have at least one school that encompasses all three of those factors, I don’t see why you would need to double the size of your son’s list.</p>

<p>Back when I was applying to schools, I applied to six and it was fine. There is nothing inherently too limiting about the number.</p>

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<p>The actual number of schools on the application list is not really important. What is important is that the application list:</p>

<ul>
<li>Contains at least one safety that is a sure thing for admission and affordability, and which the student will be happy to go to. (Looks like Alabama and the “Small in-state LAC” are questionable on the latter, so they may not count.)</li>
<li>Does not contain any completely unrealistic school (which includes financially out-of-reach schools – those where the need-based aid is insufficient and there are no large-enough merit scholarships in reach).</li>
</ul>

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<p>William and Mary?</p>

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<p>What about some LAC’s that arent too selective. Maybe Davidson?</p>

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<p>Agree with ucb, must have a happy safety in terms of admission, cost and fit. Rhodes, btw, seems to have great merit and friend’s kid was guaranteed it all 4 years. For biomed, it is close to the medical action. </p>

<p>My D applied to 6. All were solid matches for her academic interests. And she surprised us that one was a school she had previously dismissed. They change a lot from now to December 31. And then to May.</p>

<p>W&M isn’t known for being generous with aid. OOS is about 52k.</p>