Does High School Study Abroad hurt or help?

Parents Forum
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<p>I'm a big believer in international education, and would love to send my son for a year abroad, but I'm curious whether it would help or hurt when it comes to college admissions.</p>

<p>It seems like when I browse S.A. programs for high schoolers, many of them don't include AP classes, or sciences. If you listed the classes a student takes while abroad and compare them to the typical load carried by a high school junior or senior aiming for selective colleges, they seem a little lower level. Do college discount for that, or do they</p>

<p>Would a student who has only 3 years of science, or only one of the 2 AP Englishes, and only 3 years in one foreign language (e.g. you study French, but then go abroad to Finland or Vietnam so that year you study Finish or Vietnamese instead) because they went abroad do OK or would they be penalized the way a student who studied in the US, took regular English 11 instead of AP Lang, and only had 3 years of science and World Language would.</p>

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<p>Not the same thing, but a friend went to China as an ex-pat. Her D got a good education in an international school there, so that aspect was not a big problem for college admissions. BUT, missing that year of high school in the US really messed up her normal progression of basic state requirement courses like health, so she had to double up on those low level classes the next year. That prevented her from taking all the AP classes she would have ordinarily taken, which did affect the rigor of her transcript.</p>

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<p>I think it often ends up being a bit of a wash - great experience, but it can mess up schedules. Still, at least some students who really make the most of those experiences, have done very well. Better than they might have without them.</p>

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<p>Why should their education at college be more important than the one they are getting now? </p>

<p>Do it - it will all come out in the wash. (P.s. We homeschooled - didn’t do any of the “normal progression” stuff, nor AP classes, and both my kids did just fine with college admissions. One - quite specifically - perhaps because of her time in Egypt learning Arabic on a State Department scholarship.)</p>

5

<p>The issue isn’t so much whether it messes up prepping for the next levels of AP, but whether the trip made sense overall, whether it was in pursuit of something or just, in essence, a trip of privilege. Does he live with a family and integrate or live with a few other Americans, isolated in a dorm or hotel? Is everything planned around tours or is there a firm service component? You can work around some of this in how it’s worded on the app and what the GC has to say about it. </p>

<p>Since most colleges endorse and promote study abroad, there can be a subtle question, why now? Why not in soph or jr year of college when the program is more rigorous, many kids are better prepared to absorb the many lessons from living abroad and they are more independent? (Or, why not a summer program?) Mini’s example is very fine- any trip that’s truly competitive for very few admits looks better. And, I’m guessing maybe mini’s D was funded-? As I understand it, that is the very most competitive win.</p>

<p>As for the college prep requirements, there can be some flexibility. For top colleges, there is some expectation the kid didn’t lose steam. It’s better, eg, to come back and take AP lang in senior year, not regular 3. GFG also brings up a critical point about state or district requirements. If he misses some advanced academic opp in sr year because he’s got to fulfill health or an arts mandate…</p>

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<p>I would wait and have him study abroad in college. It will be more beneficial, I think.</p>

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<p>My D13 and S15 haven"t experienced college admissions yet but my daughter definitely benefited from an exchange year in S. America. My son is eagerly anticipating a year in China with NSLI-Y beginning in August. I don’t think these are experiences that could be duplicated on the college level and they won’t hurt my children’s college admissions in any way because each chose to add a year to high school. My kids chose to do “gap years” between 10th and 11th grade but it would be easy enough to add a year at any point in high school, including after graduation but before college. Even if a student substituted a year abroad for a U.S. high school year full of APs, I still don’t think it would be to his disadvantage in college admissions. After all, kids with high test scores and APs are a dime a dozen. There aren’t nearly as many students who have demonstrated the maturity and adaptability to do an exchange year. A few schools such as Beloit even reward such students with scholarships. High school study abroad can be much more demanding than college study abroad because it is full immersion into a culture and language but I think it is much more rewarding (and I did both).</p>

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<p>We compromised… my D did two summers abroad in high school. One was a program we paid for, and the other she earned a scholarship that covered almost all of a 7 week homestay abroad. She did them after 10th & 11th grade, and they really helped her mature a lot. She also studied abroad for a semester in college (same country she did her homestay in).</p>

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<p>My son did a high school sophomore year abroad – a program offered by his small independent high school. </p>

<p>He went to a French public high school in Provence and lived with a family. He’d completed French III and came back to AP French. He was able to take beginning Italian, he traveled to Paris, Venice and some other places in southern France. He really had an amazing experience, although not an amazing academic experience. He is fluent – but he does not feel fluent, he says he speaks like a kindergartener. He placed into third year /fifth semester university French as a first semester college freshman, was the only one who could <em>speak</em> the language and the others were all juniors and up.</p>

<p>In terms of college admissions, he was accepted at almost every college he applied to – reaches, matches, and merit money safeties. I would say that he had better results for his grades/scores than predicted by his school’s Naviance. The year abroad did make him stand out as an applicant, even though (IMO) there are some holes in his education, particularly in math and science. His history, philosophy, and geography were much more developed than most high school students – both world in general and European in particular.</p>

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<p>Fwiw, I only know one person who studied abroad in high school. She spent a year in Germany. 4 years later, she still talks to her host family and now as a junior in college (moving up to senior) she has a paid journalism internship in Germany this summer (she is studying international journalism). She went to a regular German high school for a year and most of her courses carried over to her American transcripts and gave her a great essay topic. She didn’t have any math or science issues. In fact, she was behind in their math despite being ahead here. She was also able to easily ace the AP German test. </p>

<p>I don’t know. I’m a bigger proponent of knowledge and experience than of defined education. I wouldn’t want to go to any college that would penalize me for taking a somewhat alternative approach to my own education. But that’s really neither here nor there, just wanted to share an experience.</p>

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<p>Mini,</p>

<p>To a very large extent, I agree with you. If he is set on study abroad when the time comes, I’d send him regardless of its impact on college admissions. If he’s set on not studying abroad, then I wouldn’t force him to go for an application edge. But it does make me curious, and if it’s a decision where I was truly on the fence, I can see this being the thing that pushed me one way or the other.</p>

<p>As to the question “why now and why not in college?” My answer is “Why not both”? I feel as though if he gets the experience of learning how to immerse himself in a culture, get along without a shared language, etc . . ., that will serve him well on study abroad in college if he chooses to go. I lived and traveled abroad a fair amount as a child, and when I got to college and went off on study abroad, and just traveling around Europe, I was really aware of how much of an advantage I had over my American classmates when we arrived in cities where neither of us could speak a word of the language. I was always the one who could figure out how to buy train tickets, or where to buy the best bread and cheese or whatever, just because I had that experience young. </p>

<p>As to it being a year of “privilege”. Yes, I agree. But there’s a fair amount of privilege in his life now. He’s growing up in an American city, playing sports, doing arts, attending a fantastic public school, not really having a care in the world. So, sending him off to Italy or China or wherever would just be substituting one form of privilege for another. Yes, it would probably look even better if he did some elite scholarship program, but if it turns out that what he can manage are programs where I pay, and it turns out that I’m lucky enough to pay, then I feel like that’s OK.</p>

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<p>My daughter spent a semester in Russia via one of the major foreign exchange groups, living with a host family and attending high school there. I think it helped tremendously in college admissions. But I never would have counseled her to go on that assumption – whether it helps or hurts is going to depend on many other factors: what types of colleges will the student be applying to? what areas of study? what degree of selectivity? What will happen to the high school schedule?</p>

<p>I think students who get into competitive colleges do so when they have strong profiles for their target schools, together with a record that fashions a compelling narrative about who that student is and why that college should admit them. When admission officers speak of looking for a student with a “passion” they are looking for an element of that narrative, and the value of any particular experience along the way may depend on how well it furthers that narrative. </p>

<p>My daughter continued her Russian studies through high school – her class was even a pilot group for a developing AP course - and she applied to competitive colleges with holistic admissions, which had strong but under-enrolled Russian departments. When my daughter arrived at college, the head of the Russian department was assigned to be her advisor – so it’s pretty clear to me that the admissions committee noticed the Russian thing. </p>

<p>My daughter also was an A student who graduated near the top of her high school class, and she had terrific recommendation letters. The time abroad may have helped her in another way - it gave her a reasonably good excuse for weaknesses in math and science. (She could point to scheduling conflicts as a reason going beyond minimum graduation requirements in those areas). If she had been a prospective science or pre-med major, then the same situation could have been very hurtful to her chances. </p>

<p>As to the “privilege” comment, I think the issue is setting, not merely that it is “privilege” to travel abroad. My d. was in a homestay situation. Generally host families in foreign countries are upper middle class by their country’s standard, but in most parts of the world that means a more modest living style than what American kids take for granted. </p>

<p>A common college essay topic is to write about a “challenge” the student has faced, and living with host parents who speak a different language, and attending a school where instruction is in a different language, certainly is a challenge - and one that my daughter chose to write about, in those terms. </p>

<p>Finally: I did not “send” my daughter abroad in high school. I “allowed” her to go abroad (on my dime) but it was her initiative, and one that I made her work for. And when she first raised the idea, I told her that it it could potentially hurt her college chances. I didn’t know if it would hurt or help, so I focused on the “hurt” part. </p>

<p>It was a wonderful experience, and she matured so much in 6 months abroad that I literally didn’t recognize her at the airport when she came home. But it is something that should be done for the sake of personal growth, not for the sake of competitive college admissions. </p>

<p>Obviously, with or without study abroad, a smart and capable student will have plenty of college options, but another equally good outcome might have seen my daughter attending one of the less prestigious campuses in our state’s 10-campus university system. Your kid will have plenty of opportunities as well. But if the top priority is competitive college admissions, then its a risky path.</p>

<p>So perhaps your first step is to think about what your son’s college expectations and goals are. The study abroad will enhance his chances in some contexts, and potentially limit him others.</p>

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<p>I took a gap year to study French between high school and college. I spent the first half of the year at an institute for language learning, and the second half auditing university classes as well. A friend of mine arranged going to high school there (which is what she had wanted to do all along), she’d graduated early from her high school with only three years. Being fluent in a language before you get to college is great - I was able to research for my senior thesis using the French from that year. I kept in touch with my French family for many years. (They were older and have passed on now.) One of my college boyfriends spent a junior high school year in Barcelona and also had a fabulous experience, though he ended up being a Chinese language and culture major in college.</p>

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<p>In this day and age I think I probably would have sent my kiddos either as a gap year or during college if they were interested in foreign travel. My college roommate was an exchange student in France as a high school junior and returned for a semester in college and said she enjoyed so much more as an ‘adult.’</p>

<p>I’m not sure it would help or hurt for college admissions. Like mini says it all comes out in the wash. Most colleges, even the huge ones, tend to analyze kids in the context of the opportunities they take during high school.</p>

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<p>A a former HS counselor at a school that sponsored the SYA study abroad program, I can tell you definitively that it’s a mixed bag. SYA does have the most highly academic program of those I’ve seen, but it is a mixed bag. Many are giving up the opportunity for advanced classes, leadership positions and other things top colleges are looking for. the one thing that’s clear is it alone is not a meaningful plus.,so many kids do programs these days. Approach carefully.</p>

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<p>“As to the question “why now and why not in college?” My answer is “Why not both”?”</p>

<p>And it doesn’t all have to be formal study either. My younger one did her Egypt “study” in “high school”, and in college, she had working internships in India and Jordan. My older one did a year of study in Italy in college, but then went off (with a small fellowship) to do some independent research. There are wider possibilities than formal exchange programs or study abroad.</p>

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<p>Sorry if I seemed overwhelming- I was thinking more about the question of whether he’d be “penalized.” You seem confident about the positives. I did 6 weeks in a summer program in hs and benefitted the way you note. For kids who miss some usual hs thing or delay some AP til senior year, the GC can write a few words about the wonderful opp and his growth.</p>

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<p>I wouldn’t do it FOR college admissions, though I certainly think it both helped and hurt. Helped, because my D understood a lot more about people, culture, expectations, and life after living in a different country, which meant learning a lot about herself. Hurt, in that while the school transferred her grades from abroad, it was all as non-weighted grade classes, which definitely affected her weighted gpa and class rank adversely.</p>

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<p>We are just finising up our two year assignment in China. My son spent his last two years of high school in an international school here, and said it was the best thing that ever happened to him. Fortunately we had all those sought after classes available to us, AP which he took quite a few of, and IB had he wanted it.</p>

<p>We had intense college application prep at our school and had many visits from addmission staff from US colleges. According to them, our kids were really sought after because of the academics of our school, and considered “interesting”. I think it’s worth it if they can go to a good school and perform well abroad. Students are so similar these days. Everyone does community service, takes AP’s, plays sports. It’s hard for them to have something that sets them apart.</p>

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<p>I did an exchange program in high school, though not a whole semester. It was very eye opening. I say - do it if it’s the right thing to do for your child’s life; don’t worry about it from a college standpont.</p>