<p>I’d like to know about all the unemployed grads of top schools, who most likely are not even counted in such studies. </p>
<p>Q. What do you call a Columbia Journalism School graduate?
A. Barrista</p>
<p>Payscale is full of ****. You should by no means draw conclusions from this.</p>
<p>I feel like most everyone on here is not remembering the fact that all of these “examples” of successful people who did not go ivy are old or at the very least middle aged. Back when they went to school it was not uncommon to not go to college at all. Now, a much higher percentage of hs graduates go to college, meaning that going to an ivy can distinguish you from a very large pool of job candidates. In my experience at UPenn, by the way, all of my classes have been taught by professors, not TAs, and I have two classes this semester with less than 15 students. So for the people who have said that “if so and so had gone to Harvard or (insert ivy name here) all of their classes would have been large and taught by a TA anyway whilst at a small liberal arts college they would have gotten more attention” is completely false.</p>
<p>I also feel like a lot of the posters here obviously didn’t go ivy or weren’t capable of doing so and thus try to justify why going somewhere less prestigious will produce the same end result. With on campus recruiting and the size of ivy league endowments, the end result is not the same, at least not in my experience.</p>
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<p>Well as time goes by, some of the lower-ranked colleges start to catch up. And I’ve known people who aren’t middle aged who have had the same or sometimes, even better, end result.</p>
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<p>I feel that a lot of the posters want to justify that Ivies will make it or break it because they’ve worked hard to get into those schools. So they just overestimate the value of Ivies without having any knowledge at all of how job opportunities really are, or even knowing how other colleges are. This doesn’t mean that these are the hardest-working students in all of America.</p>
<p>And btw, my sister goes to an Ivy.</p>
<p>I love that a smart kid wants to study Appalachian culture at a small college with the thought of law school afterwards. I can just picture a very shrewd “country boy” attorney who parlays a bit of twang into some court room wins . . . or a senate seat. That young man may be smarter than all of the rest of us combined!</p>
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<p>Very true, a large number of people from the 1960’s dropped out of school, since it was considered part of the establishment, which they were rebelling against. </p>
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<p>I think it comes down to how hard an individual student is willing to study and work. Filling up space in a classroom and listening to lectures isn’t going to teach you very much. Hitting the books, researching and writing is, and it won’t matter where you’re attending, since you’ll be totally focused on your studies, not the surroundings. </p>
<p>I will say this though, that Ivy league schools have more resources, better libraries, and attract the best professors. But it will only take you so far. Would I still want to attend an Ivy school? You bet!</p>
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<p>Some of the best litigators I’ve seen in courtrooms are country lawyers. Where you earned your diploma from means nothing in a courtroom.</p>
<p>School name/prestige is important. Sorry, it is true.</p>
<p>HOWEVER</p>
<p>Grades and what you do (interns, research, etc) are just as important.</p>
<p>CONCLUSION:
Seriously, if you go to an IVY, your life isn’t set for you. What you want is to attend a prestigious school that you will succeed in. Prestigious does not mean only IVYs. Only idiots think that. Any top like 30 school is “prestigious enough” for employers, trust me. At that point, unless you graduated from HYP, grades and what you did @ college are more important.</p>
<p>I have 3 sisters, two of which are from IVYs and the other is in a “little ivy” or whatever the **** stupid prestige-loving ***** call these “lower” schools nowadays. They all passed the “did they attend a prestigious college” part of the application. The harder part is grades/what you did.</p>
<p>TLDR: A prestigious university is important (any top 30 school is prestigious in the eyes of employers…) and most importantly DO WELL and DO WORK.</p>
<p>^ But it doesn’t even have to be top 30; it just needs to be well respected by the industry/field that you want to go into (usually this falls into the category of the top schools, but not all the time). </p>
<p>I hate how narrow-minded some Ivy students become. Getting into an Ivy doesn’t promise you the best job opportunities in America.</p>
<p>I know this is a cliche, but the Ivies are heavily overrated, too (except for maybe UPenn). I don’t like how USNEWS ranks. Don’t look into the top 30 rankings. Just go to a reputed college.</p>
<p>The only importance that I can give to a top 30 school is that it could create a great first impression (depending on the industry you are going into). But you aren’t going to be an automatic hire relative to all other applicants (even the ones from state schools). But it does make that difference.</p>
<p>Most reputed colleges offer similar opportunities as any other college. Go to a college that is REPUTED in the field you want to work with for the best results (that sounds so corny, but w/e).</p>
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Payscale doesn’t correct for student strength. So you actually told us why top school kids tend to earn more:
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<p>@borkborkbork</p>
<p>yes, reputed is the key term. Top 30 was just something I came up with on the spot, and shouldn’t be taken literally. Any reputed university looks good when applying for a job, but like you said, it won’t get you it.</p>
<p>What you said is completely right and I couldn’t have said it better myself.</p>
<p>Hi, dumb question but is there a “senior year” version of the SAT. Lady Dianeski refers to Algebra II section and Physics section regarding her son’s scores.</p>
<p>The thing about Ivy league schools is that most people are already smart when they go in. The school doesn’t necessarily give you a much better education. But for job recruiters, picking someone from a top schools is an almost guarantee that they are smart. But someone can go to a state school and be smart as well, so if you go to a college that’s not as good you can still do well.</p>
<p>I’ve heard different stories. On one hand, you’ve got the wall street journal with the list of best colleges for getting a job, and the list is dominated by state schools. However, my father worked as a job recruiter, and he said that sometimes they wouldn’t even send people to recruit at schools that weren’t top-25.</p>
<p>I think that it’s a personal matter, not a school matter. Your college experience and resume will be what you make it to be. Someone who slacks off all 4 years won’t get a job, and someone who tries really hard will get a job.</p>
<p>I am the salutatorian of my class, I got a 2290 on the SAT, I have one of the hardest courseloads of all the students in my school, I play 2 varsity sports, I’m an avid musician who is a member of the all-state band, and I do about 100 hours of community service a year. And guess what? I LOVE Penn State. I’d pick Penn State over Harvard any day, because Penn State offers me opportunities relative to my educational and career interests that Harvard doesn’t.</p>
<p>One more thing: don’t bring up the individual success stories, like people who went to state schools or no schools and are millionaires. They are famous stories because they are so rare. I’m not saying that it’s not true that these people were successful, and I’m not saying that you’ll be a failure unless you go to a top school. I’m just saying that it’s not a valid argument.</p>
<p>Yes and also understand that many who go to the Ivies are often more financially well off than others (of course it isn’t 100% true).</p>
<p>There are some jobs that only take Ivy applicants, but they aren’t very common. It doesn’t even mean that those jobs are better jobs. </p>
<p>And industries get to decide what the top 25 schools are for them (they don’t always choose USNEWS as a standard). But even if they recognize schools as more prestigious, they usually don’t discard applications just based on the college of the applicant. </p>
<p>If someone from a certain company doesn’t recruit at your school, it doesn’t mean they are disinclined to your school. You have to realize that companies just can’t recruit everywhere. They’ll likely find a higher percentage of better applicants at the top colleges. Still, this doesn’t preclude the chances of other applicants (from other colleges) from getting in.</p>
<p>Another thing to consider is the location of your job. The Ivies tend to get more recognition in the Northeast.</p>
<p>My mentor told me that if he had to choose any top-ranked school in the Northeast that wasn’t overrated, he would choose MIT. Then again, a friend of mine whose father hires engineers, told me that his father would look at applicants from MIT, and he’d be surprised by how much he initially overestimated them. Many times, there would be others who were as good or even better from other colleges.</p>
<p>And then again, if we’re talking about undergrad, then grad reputation > undergrad reputation. Many times, you don’t even have to report where you went undergrad. But this is IF you go onto grad school.</p>
<p>Does prestige make a difference? Of course it does. But not as much as we want it to.</p>
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<p>EDIT:
I really can’t say anything at all about law school and government positions because I really don’t know ANYTHING about it.</p>
<p>If you don’t apply yourself on the job, I doubt most employers will care where you went to school. You will be successful on the job based on your performance. How well you did in college or where you went won’t mean much if you don’t fit into organization where you work and can’t perform to their expectations.</p>
<p>As a corporate recruiter, I have worked with hundreds of candidates. Where you go to school DOES matter, but not in the way you may think. The school has to be appropriate to the industry, for example, kids are not hysterically trying to get into NC State University, but engineering companies will quickly take anyone who graduates from their engineering program. Also, the University of Texas has the finest Accounting program in the country, but is a “state” school, so many will turn up their noses (just try to get admitted, though!) Many schools known for their graduate programs do not have corresponding undergraduate programs (can’t major in Business subjects at Vanderbilt. Yale, or Duke, for example.)<br>
The best advice I can give students that I mentor is to choose the school that can offer you the best education in your chosen field, maximize the opportunities offered by making good grades, accepting every chance to practice your skills through internships and volunteer work, and do well enough to splurge on a top graduate program if that fits your career plans. Companies hire candidates for what they will bring to the company. Would you hire a “C” student from Yale who caddied in the summer, or an “A” student from Georgia Tech who interned with three well-respected companies (receiving glowing recommendations,) was president of his/her professional group, and raised funds to construct a house for Habitat for Humanity? There are always exceptions, but for the vast majority of students, hanging their hopes on a “name” school is a waste of time. Simply going to that school will not make you successful.</p>
<p>Texasgirl - that’s a good post and while I agree with it in many ways I think what is missing is that many rising college freshman aren’t positive about their field and many who are positive about their field change their minds. One thing that at Ivy helps with is giving their students some latitude to explore and perhaps avoid being on a completely professional track from the get go. I’d imagine the Ivy liberal arts graduate has an easier time getting a foot in the door for a first job then the one from state U - all else being even.</p>
<p>Texasgirl - that’s a good post and while I agree with it in many ways I think what is missing is that many rising college freshman aren’t positive about their field and many who are positive about their field change their minds. One thing that an Ivy helps with is giving their students some latitude to explore and perhaps avoid being on a completely professional track from the get go. I’d imagine the Ivy liberal arts graduate has an easier time getting a foot in the door for a first job then the one from state U - all else being even.</p>
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<p>Haha I know a different version:
What do you call an Iowa Writers’ Workshop grad?
A Barrista.</p>
<p>sewhappy, if a student’s goal is to go into engineering, Ivy might not be a better option compare to many good state schools. One option that many find very appealing is go with some outstanding Honors Colleges within a major State University. The good ones can allow you to explore and at the same time get a very good education at a reasonable price. There is no right answer and each one has to find what fits his/her situation.</p>