Where you go to college really DOES matter...

Applying to College
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Here is how i look at it… say u are a CEO of a top company in New York. you get two prospects applying for the same job. one of them went to harvard and got a 3.4 GPA and the other went to Idaho state (first thing that came to my mind…know nothing about the school…dont take offense) and got a 3.7 GPA. who would you choose? i think the vast majority of people would chose the harvard graduate. or say for example, u walk into a doctor’s office and u see a harvard, UPenn, and Yale diploma hung on the wall. you would quickly and unconsciously assume that he is the best doctor possible compared to a doctor who has an Idaho St diploma hung up. i know that everyone says it doesnt matter what school u go to, it’s HOW u use ur degree…but we can’t deny it, ivy league and top school degrees open a much wider door that “normal” universities don’t. i think our society is more concerned with name and reputation…and i myself admit am too. it’s not like there is this secret book of knowledge and facts that only ivy leagues possess. chemistry at harvard is the same chemistry at Idaho state.

it wud be interesting to hear your opinions on this subject…does it really matter where u go to college? will u make more money with an ivy league (or top TOP university) degree? will u have more oppurtunities with those degrees? etc. …i personally think the answer is yes to all those questions…

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taking those opinons into account…what are my chances for a full-ride at USC…my top choices are bekreley and UCLA, but i realize that because i am out-of-state and they don’t offer much financial aid to out of state studnets, i think USC is my next top choice. i really want to go to college in Los Angeles, or actually anywhere in California (a beach and good social life is a must…)

i’ll copy and paste my stats from a previous post:

first off…let me explain my background, as it could contribute to my chances…i am an African-American male (specifically, Sudanese-American). I lived in Saudi Arabia and Egypt before i moved here about seven years ago, but i have the US citizenship. my father is from Sudan and my mother is form Egypt.

School stats:
GPA: unweighted 3.9 (only got one B+ in AP Euro)
SAT: 1960 (M: 660, CR: 600, W: 700)…will be retaking in october
ACT: taking in october
SAT II: US History: 750, Physics: 630, Math 2: november
AP classes: by the end of my senior year, i will have taken 10 AP classes and 3 Honors classes

clubs:
Model UN, JSA, Spanish CLub, Key Club (community service club), Diversity and Awareness Team, FCCLA, and helped found this club called SOTENI, which raises AIDS awareness in Africa and raises money.

honors/Awards:
National Honor Society, Spanish National Honor Society, Bausch and Lomb Honorary Science Award, Scholastic Achievement Award in Spanish, Red award of excellence for 4.0 GPA, and was invited into many of the NYLC and other leadership seminars but couldn’t attend because of money, (should i include National Scociety of High School Schoalrs?)

extracurriculars:
I played tennis for 3 years on the tennis team (won the Junior Varsity city doubles championship). i love to play squash (maybe i cud join the berkeley or ucla team if they have one). every summer, i go to Saudi Arabia and i volunteer at the King Faisal Specialist Hospital, so i have a lot of documented hours there. i also volunteer at other organizatios such as Operation Smile and do walks/marathons and other community service things. i tutor people in my school, especially science, in all subjects. finally, i work at Kumon Math and Reading Center, where i am the Head Tutor there. i tutor kids of all ages and all levels in english and math. I also do the computer work and “administrative work” since i am the chief tutor. i have been working there for six years, even though i wasnt officially paid until mid-sophomore year.

Intended major: chemistry or biomedical engineering

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I’m only looking for a FULL ride at USC undergrad and am very interested in the combined ba/md program, even though i wud still attend if i didn’t get in. what r ur opinions of USC Medical School (keeping in mind the public’s views on name and reputation). I am 99% sure that i want to go to medical school and become a surgeon in Los Angeles. wud going to USC help my chances at finding residency in LA or wud it make no difference. finally this is probably a stupid question but if i wnated to do residency in UCLA medical center, wud a USC degree hurt me, as they are kinda “rival” schools?

looking forward to ur thoughts…

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<p>I am glad to see you want to go to USC but I highly doubt you will be given a full scholarship, if any from of scholarship at all. Maybe because you are an "african american" your chances at a scholarship are better. You have the GPA but your SAT needs to rise. Great ECs and everything else. From what I have heard, USC has a great medical and dentistry school. There is even a show called USC ER or something when they show patients at the USC Hospital. It is very well respected on the West Coast and I have heard numerous professionals talk about it. Yes, a USC degree will give you clout in LA and within the West Coast. However, that shroud will tear when going to the East Coast. Here is the link for USC scholarships. I hope to see you at the best school :) <a href="http://afaweb.esd.usc.edu/dcpage2.cfm?PageBaseID=50223%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://afaweb.esd.usc.edu/dcpage2.cfm?PageBaseID=50223&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

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<p>
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does it really matter where u go to college?

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<p>To some extent, it does. But I don't think it matters as much as some people on CC think it does. </p>

<p>What I do agree with is that you want to go to a school that maximizes your chances of getting a degree. We live in a world where there is a discrete and ruthless difference between having a degree and not having a degree. Let's face it. There are a lot of employers out there who won't even look at you unless you have a degree, no matter where the degree is from or what the degree is in. Their attitude is that you either have a degree, or you don't. Fair or not fair, that's how they think. It's therefore better to have a degree from an easy school than to be a flunkout from a difficult school like Caltech or Berkeley. They're not going to know or care that certain degrees are more difficult to get than others. All they care about is that you either have a degree, or you don't have a degree. </p>

<p>Hence, because this is the world we live in, I advocate going to a school where you have the maximum chance of getting the degree. Also keep in mind that getting a degree or not is not just a matter of intelligence or work ethic. Some people run into personal problems in college. Some people have emotional difficulties. Some people are just plain immature when they're 17 or 18. The attitude of some schools, most notably HYPS, is that they are going to provide you with maximum leeway to get the degree - as long as you somehow end up doing the work, you will graduate. Maybe not graduate on time, maybe with only mediocre grades, but you will graduate. There are other schools that have a far more hostile attitude. They have the attitude that they basically don't care that you are having personal problems - you either get X amount of work done in Y amount of time, or you're expelled, simple as that. </p>

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will u make more money with an ivy league (or top TOP university) degree? will u have more oppurtunities with those degrees?

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<p>Again, yes, but the opportunities that are available to you generally come down to personal motivation. Highly motivated people who go to no-name school can come up with more opportunities than unmotivated people at Harvard. Obviously a highly motivated person at Harvard probably has the most opportunities of all. However, the point is that personal motivation plays at least as strong of a role. </p>

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I'm only looking for a FULL ride at USC undergrad and am very interested in the combined ba/md program, even though i wud still attend if i didn't get in.

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<p>Honestly, while you're competitive for a fullride at USC and the BA/MD program, you are no shoo-in. Particularly for the BA/MD program, for which nobody is a shoo-in, due to the level of competition for spots. </p>

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if i wnated to do residency in UCLA medical center, wud a USC degree hurt me, as they are kinda "rival" schools?

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<p>Nobody cares about that stuff on a professional level. That rivalry stuff is for kids to argue over and for sports teams to compete over. On a professional level, UCLA and USC respect each other immensely, and nobody is going to be shot down for going to the 'wrong' school.</p>

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<p>The reputation of the school typically only matters for your FIRST job. After that, it's your own reputation that will make or break you.</p>

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<p>"Harvard Schmarvard" by Jay Mathews is a good book to read for anyone applying to a top school. (yes, the author is a Harvard grad)</p>

<p>audiophile summed it up well.</p>

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<p>My job experience has been that the school that you went to only impacts your first job. Once you have that job, the only thing that matters is your productivity relative to those around you. Nobody cares about what school you went to, nor your grades. My personal experience has been that those people who didn't go to top schools but had to struggle to complete school part time etc because of financial constraints do much better.</p>

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<p>I'm glad you picked Boise State for your example :)</p>

<p>I have two good friends, one whose dad graduated from Boise St. and now is a super successful business owner and bazillionaire. The other's dad got a degree from harvard and hasn't been able to hold down a job as long as I've known her (10 years so far).</p>

<p>Moral of the story: a harvard degree doesn't guarantee success and employment, and a boise st. degree isn't a death sentence.</p>

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<p>Whenever this subject comes up, people normally talk about the "connections" that going to a top school gives you. This is true for top attorneys, doctors, and prestigious MBA; but it seems to be a myth for undergrad degrees. </p>

<p>I would not underestimate the simple pleasure of going to one of the extremely selective schools. I would imagine that going to Yale for four years is a lot more fun than going to State U.</p>

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<p>I believe that where you go and to college does matter, and can make a huge impact on your life, but the WAY this happens is pretty unpredictable and has little to do with the prestige of a given school.
What opportunies does the school offer that you will take advantage of while you're there. It's the "while you're there" that matters, imo.
Does school X have a fabulous science department that will hook you after a couple of courses into a career you may not have chosen at school Y? Do you meet your future spouse? Do you become involved with an extracurricular that changes your life? Any of these things can happen at almost any good school, and you have no way of knowing in advance how the college will influence the direction of your career or life. College is all about the opportunites you go after once you're there. I know it sounds trite, but I believe it. There are far to many annecdotal examples like luckycharms to think that a name school will set you on a better path, in and of itself. Do more kids who go to these superselective schools have more successes? Maybe, I don't know, but they were probably pretty success oriented, whatever that means, before they got there.</p>

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<p>Seems like there may be a link between your undergrad school and the Top Grad schools. According to this article, the top tier schools generate more acceptances to the Top Law, Med and B-schools.</p>

<p><a href="http://www.wsjclassroomedition.com/college/feederschools.htm%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.wsjclassroomedition.com/college/feederschools.htm&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

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<p>audiophile: ditto </p>

<p>My h went to a state school....he is one of four VP's for a fortune 500 company.......there is a Harvard grad in the office right next door...</p>

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<p>
[quote]
...people normally talk about the "connections" that going to a top school gives you. This is true for top attorneys, doctors, and prestigious MBA; but it seems to be a myth for undergrad degrees.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Well, it's not TOTALLY a myth. The best example is probably Steve Ballmer, CEO of Microsoft and the 3rd Microsoft billionaire, after Gates and Allen. How did Steve Ballmer get into Microsoft in the first place? Well, I think it's safe to say that the fact that he happened to be Bill Gates's old dormmate and close poker-playing pal at Harvard had a lot to do with it. I think we can all agree that if Steve Ballmer had never gone to Harvard, then he would have never met Bill Gates, and consequently, he wouldn't be a billionaire now. Hence, we can probably conclude that the Harvard experience worked out pretty well for Mr. Ballmer. </p>

<p>And the fact is, this is not unusual. A lot of hiring and business deals get completed not because somebody or some company is the best for the job, but because two people just happened to be old fraternity brothers in their college days. That's part of the game of business. It's not really what you know, it's who you know. I'm not saying that this factor trumps all things all the time, but it does happen a LOT.</p>

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<p>Look at the Yale undergrad/grad/law degree and the current and past Presidential administrations. Enough said.</p>

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<p>i'd rather go to a state school than turn out to be a George W. Bush</p>

<p>i get your point, though</p>

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<p>When applying to grad school, it is better to be in the top of the class at a lesser school than the bottom of the class at an extremely selective school. The grad school degree is the one that matters most. </p>

<p>There is probably a CEO at some company who was considered for the job in the first place because he was somebody's roommate at State U. Are you saying the Gates is where he is because of his Harvard connections?</p>

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<p>Gates is obviously where he is because of his ability. He would have succeeded no matter where he went.</p>

<p>However, if you are not a Gates kind of guy yourself, then the next best thing is to network with a guy like Gates. And the fact of the matter is that you're more likely to do that at the high-end schools. Like it or not, that's the truth. At State U, you may indeed up socializing with somebody who will make it big later, and take you along for the ride. On the other hand, you are also likely to end up socializing with people who end up doing very little with their lives. </p>

<p>It's all about playing the percentages. All other things being equal, you want to do what will maximize your odds of success. Nothing guarantees success, but some things increase your odds. The truth is, high-end schools increase your odds of success. They obviously don't guarantee anything, but they increase your odds. Or put another way, just because one guy smokes 3 packs a day and lives to be a 100 doesn't mean that you should then start smoking 3 packs a day. </p>

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When applying to grad school, it is better to be in the top of the class at a lesser school than the bottom of the class at an extremely selective school. The grad school degree is the one that matters most.

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<p>Well, first off, not everybody goes to graduate school. Not everybody needs graduate school. Plenty of people find success without a graduate degree. So if you graduate last in your class at Harvard, the fact is, your resume is still going to read 'Harvard'. And we both know that the Harvard name is a powerful draw when it comes to getting employment. Like it or not, it is a powerful draw. </p>

<p>Secondly, while I agree with you that if you do want to go to graduate school, it probably is better for you to be at the top of your class at a lesser school than the bottom of your class at Harvard. However, what is also true is that what is better than being at the top of a lesser school is being at the top of Harvard. It is possible that the guy who graduated at the top of a lesser school could also have graduated at the top of Harvard - but we'll never know. And by far the worst thing that can happen is to go to a lesser school - and wind up at the bottom of your class, or even flunk out. There's no guarantee that if you go to a lesser school, that you will do well. What if you do poorly? The guy who chooses Harvard has basically 'locked in' Harvard. What happens if you get into Harvard and a lesser school and you choose the lesser school because you hope to do better there than at Harvard... and then end up doing poorly at that lesser school?</p>

<p>There is a general point in this thread that I agree with, in that your college does not dictate your future and it is very much up to you and your personal motivation to find success. However, let's not kid ourselves. The quality of your school has an effect. It can increase or decrease your odds of success. If that weren't true, then there would be no point in fighting over admissions into a top school.</p>

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<p>There is an interesting study of the Mellon Foundation database of graduates from three classes spanning the years beginning with the 1970's. I don't have the specifics in front of me, but I can find them.</p>

<p>At any rate, it has always been statistically shown that graduates from Ivy League schools have a greater income over their lifetimes than others. This new study from about five years ago compared people who were accepted into an Ivy but decided to attend somewhere else against people who actually attended. The result was that there was no statistical difference between the two groups. The implication being that people who are able to be accepted into an Ivy are going to successful because of their builtin characteristics as opposed to the actual experience of attending.</p>

<p>Bill Gates is in some ways the luckiest man alive. When IBM came out with their new PC in the mid 1980's, they needed an operating system to go with it. IBM had traditionally made all of their money off of selling hardware and so they did not give a lot of thought to the OS. Bill Gates came in wearing a pair of tennis shoes and lied about having an OS ready. He then brought something close to what IBM wanted for $10K (a lot of money at the time but his family was well off). He modified what he had brought, then IBM made the biggest blunder in all of financial history by letting his keep the licensing rights to what became DOS. Gates deserves a lot of credit, but he was lucky and it had nothing to do with where he went to school.</p>

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<p>The thing that bothers me about the brand-name concentration on HYPSM is that so many high schoolers talk about how they have spent their entire lives working towards the goal of getting into an Ivy, and make statements to the effect that once they get in, they will be set for life. It is as if they think that once they get in, they have joined a mystical society that will take care of them for the rest of their lives. All they have to do is make the secret handshake and people are going to guide them into CEO positions. One, this is sad. Two, it is wrong.</p>

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<p>Isn't a 3.4 at Harvard supposed to be horrible because of all the grade inflation?</p>

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<p>what does the M stand for in HYPSM</p>