<p>They dont tend to attract recruiters as much as the top universities, and their job placement rates aren't as good.</p>
<p>MightyNick -- within the narrow scope of interest that you and (apparently) EAD have, I would agree that the prestige of your college has a direct correlation to the recruiting efforts of the Bulge Bracket Wall St. firms, hedge funds, and consultancies like Bain, BCG, McKinsey.</p>
<p>For this narrow focus, yes, the HYPSMs and a few other prestigious private colleges (plus perhaps Michigan-Ross and Berkeley-Haas) will offer their students more connections and interviewing opportunities for entry level jobs. For these firms I mentioned above, the prestige of a college is as good a way as any to narrow the interview slots to match the number of interviews they are able to offer.</p>
<p>You've just got to keep in mind that the vast majority of college students would not choose that grind of a career path-- even those at the very schools that facilitate entry into that grind. </p>
<p>For you, and other aspirants to these types of jobs, I imagine you've resolved that the first fifteen years of your career (interrupted only by MBA school) will be filled with 70-90 hour weeks, high salaries and almost as high expenses, and not many free hours in which to develop your other interests. Work hard, make as much money as you can quickly, and actually enjoy life later on. Not many will accept life on those terms.... Slavery, then Freedom. If you have accepted those terms, then more power to you, and I wish you "success".</p>
<p>Yes, that is the career path I want to pursue. I haven't heard of many ivy league students aspiring to work as accountants/salespesrons/etc for F500 companies anyway.</p>
<p>
So you went to two extremely prestigious schools and are now advising younger students to forget about the concept of "prestige" in their college search and go to their nearest state schools? Bravo! Way to demonstrate the relevance of your "experience" in your views.</p>
<p>Keep in mind that we all don't go to college just to seek a job. You have yet to answer MightyNick's or my questions. Why should a student not go to the best school he/she can possibly get into? Why can't you get a similar fulfillment from a lucrative job as say a non-profit job? Also, you don't know me. I am perfectly in touch with the real world. I could go into any number of fields, some of which are lucrative AND all of which I know will make me happy. Whether I become a part of a non-profit or a Fortune 500, I will still have had a lifetime's worth of amazing experiences by getting the chance to interact with brilliant, quirky and intellectual individuals who populate my school and because of the incredible teaching quality/study abroad opportunities and civic engagement options that my elite university provides. I'm waiting for your reply...</p>
<p>EAD -- UCLA <em>was</em> the "nearest state school" for me. It also happened to have been located within Los Angeles (personal reasons), and had a much better linguistics dept. than Stanford (intellectual interest) -- thus, I transferred after 60 units at Stanford (1 year). After working some years in public service, I attended the Anderson School at UCLA.</p>
<p>There are VERY few entry level jobs that differentiate Stanford from Berkeley, or Duke from Michigan, or Harvard from Emory, or UCLA from UC Riverside.</p>
<p>There are, at any University, a set of students who are as intelligent and driven as those at a Top 10 school. For example, the top 1000 (25%) of matriculants at Berkeley have similar test scores to the midpoint student at any of the Ivys or Duke. Finding those types of students is easy. They're the ones getting straight As and advancing into the more challenging courses in the major. They're the ones attending the "mandatory" discussion sections and actually asking questions.</p>
<p>I graduated from UCLA with ZERO debt. This gave me the opportunity to choose, with clear conscience, a career path that was meaningful to me, and productive to society. I graduated fromt he MBA program with ZERO debt. I can't tell you how much that freedom means -- freedom of choice.</p>
<p>Have you read Harvard Schmarvard?</p>
<p>UCLA is still a top 25 university. Comparing it to the likes of Ohio State and ASU doesn't make sense. Besides, it was very affordable for you since you were instate. But from your posts, you are encouraging people to give up the opportunity to go to prestigious schools that cost a lot of money. And why don't you answer the question - if a hardworking, talented student with good character got into an ivy league/other top school school, why should he not chose it over lets say Ohio State or ASU? After all, in the eyes of a HR manager at a F500, graduating from Duke/Michigan is the same as graduating from OSU right? </p>
<p>You mentioned that not all people want to work on wall street. Yes that is very true. But what about people that want to go into law, medicine or engineering? Wouldn't going to a well known research university for engineering be more beneficial? Wouldn't majoring in political science or economics at Stanford or Duke be better for a student aiming for law school? How can you say undergrad does not matter? </p>
<p>From what I can think of, the professions for which undergrad does not matter are sales/marketing, accounting, etc...or if you're an aspiring entrepreneur, in which case other things matter (quick and creative mind, street-smart personality etc). These are the professions students from not so prestigious business schools go into. I know for a fact that to get into a Big 4 accounting firm it does not matter which school you go to - you can be a graduate from Florida State or Wharton - the recruiter at PWC or Deloitte won't care about your school as much as your resume and your GPA (unless of course he were a FSU or Wharton alum). The same can be said of companies like Johnson and Johnson, P&G etc which recruit heavily from state schools. Ivy leaguers aspire more than to just work at these companies making 40-50K in their first job.</p>
<p>
[quote]
You mentioned that not all people want to work on wall street. Yes that is very true. But what about people that want to go into law, medicine or engineering? Wouldn't going to a well known research university for engineering be more beneficial? Wouldn't majoring in political science or economics at Stanford or Duke be better for a student aiming for law school? How can you say undergrad does not matter?
[/quote]
For engineering, the school you go to has very little impact on your career. Even salary-wise, everybody pretty much starts out even, which is why many students from schools like MIT do go into finance and consulting. At my company, I've worked with graduates from all sorts of schools... The Cooper Union, Columbia, Ga Tech, UVa, Polytechnic, Colgate, Manhattan College, RPI, etc.... it's a pretty wide spectrum. Our last CEO had a BA from Maryland (not sure about the current CEO). And this is for a company that is the 2nd or 3rd largest worldwide in our field. For a previous company that I worked for, the president had a bachelor's degree from Brooklyn College, and he was the expert in his field. To be fair though, he did have a MS from Upenn. </p>
<p>Medicine and law are heavily statistics driven, so the school you get your bachelor's degree from has little effect on your med school application.</p>
<p>What I said above does not apply to those who stay in academia.</p>
<p>EDIT:
[quote]
Ivy leaguers aspire more than to just work at these companies making 40-50K in their first job.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>That's actually what their average base salary is... $45,425. The</a> Harvard Crimson :: News :: Harvard Graduates Head to Investment Banking, Consulting</p>
<p>I should also note that I can't speak for economics or political science. Engineering is unique in that most schools are accredited by ABET. Part of the process includes a review of the curriculum, so things tend to be standardized. The one benefit you will get from going to a better school though, is that you'll be surrounded by similar peers. Depending on the person, that may push you to work harder. And then there's the whole networking thing, which would probably result in better connections in better schools. Education-wise though, there isn't a significant difference between schools.</p>
<p>The OP wanted to know if it mattered where you obtain your undergraduate degree from. Given my real world experience, no, it doesnt matter where you went to get your degree. My most successful colleague went to New Mexico State. My star staff member went to University of Rochester. My highly successful neighbor went to San Diego State, and never graduated. My screw-up brother-in-law graduated from Brown.</p>
<p>Move all of the above schools around in placement. My screw-up brother-in law could have gone to New Mexico State. He still would be a screw-up. It simply doesnt matter where you go to get your undergraduate degree. Period. Just get one. Do things that indicate you are hardworking, have common sense and are intelligent. Study hard and pay attention. Then, after you graduate, walk with your feet on the ground, show up early for work and stretch yourself to be good at what you do. Learn to work as a team member; learn to accept that you have a boss and what that means. </p>
<p>We are not belittling your accomplishments. It takes an almost Herculean effort to get into a top-tier school these days. But dont for one moment think you have won the prize, or that you are smarter than anyone else anywhere else. You played the game well, you test well, or, for you, achieving acceptance into one of the Ivy League schools proves something to yourself; it was a goal worth achieving. Your values arent my values, but I understand that what motivates some doesnt motivate others. I only hope that society will come to value status schools less. These are fairly shallow values, and they are pushing our students to focus on shallow achievements that dont strengthen their character one bit. Its sad actually.</p>
<p>I just want to point out that while the business people are very right in what they are saying (and I respect them for doing so), for poisitions outside of the business world (academia, research, etc.) the degree matters more. That said, the graduate/PhD is far more important. I frankly find it immature to buy into the hype behind schools. I feel that most people out grow this by the end of 9th grade. You always get a few though who need to go ivy for whatever reason. Anyways, undergrad matters very little, because is research fields, academia, and most other fields you need a graduate degree or more.</p>
<p>Cream rises to the top wherever. That being said my kids are at Ivys & the opportunities for internships, jobs & the level of grad school admissions are quite different than what their HS classmates have at the state flagship. Of course there are a always few- the cream- that do very well from there. I'd say its a great education with enthusiastic profs and students , & life is easier & doors open for my kids- so it has been worth every penny. It seems like Ivies take Ivies for grad school too, even for the average students. We are amazed by this. However I must say that if it meant taking loans then forget private college-- do not go into big debt- Remember Cream rises to the top wherever!</p>
<p>My favorite anecdotal story is that I beat my friend's step-dad in Scrabble. He's a doctor, who graduated from MIT. Not just beat, I kicked his ass. Not bad for someone who attends a so called 'mediocre/average' third tier school...</p>
<p>My biggest problem is that many people on this site feel that those of us who do not attend the most highly selective/prestigious universities are all unintelligent, and have no future ahead of us.</p>
<p>"My biggest problem is that many people on this site feel that those of us who do not attend the most highly selective/prestigious universities are all unintelligent, and have no future ahead of us."</p>
<p>seems like something their parents place in their heads</p>
<p>I'm starting to think people post threads on this subject just to see how many pages they can get.</p>
<p>
[quote]
seems like something their parents place in their heads
[/quote]
</p>
<p>That could definitely be true.</p>
<p>I really can't believe that MightyNick and evil<em>asian</em>dictator are "offended" by what the businessmen are telling them. MN, many≠most≠all, so these men are not making "generalizations" when they say a lot of the people they met from Harvard, Yale, and Pricneton have lacked people skills. Can you not stand to hear that some of these students aren't perfect?</p>
<p>You two claim they haven't answered your question why a student shouldn't attend a top school over a less acclaimed one. They've been saying all along where you went to school doesn't matter, whether you attend the top school or not. Go ahead and go to the top school and work your butt off, or go to the state school and work your butt off. The point is you have to work your butt off.</p>
<p>The real reason your question hasn't been answered is that you won't allow the idea that a top school isn't necessary for a shot at success through your thick heads. Go to an ivy and reserve the right to believe you're better than every single person in every single state college in the US. Then you'll become one of those "generalized" ivy graduates with the social skills that make employers at big corporations scream "Next" at the top of their lungs.</p>
<p>Amen, chris. Well said.</p>
<p>
[quote]
The real reason your question hasn't been answered is that you won't allow the idea that a top school isn't necessary for a shot at success through your thick heads. Go to an ivy and reserve the right to believe you're better than every single person in every single state college in the US. Then you'll become one of those "generalized" ivy graduates with the social skills that make employers at big corporations scream "Next" at the top of their lungs.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Thick heads? I love it when people start with the insults. </p>
<p>Anyways, I agree that a top school isn't necessary for a shot at success. There are many people that didn't go to top colleges and are successful. My point is that going to a top college makes things EASIER for you. You do not have to work your butt off as much if you were to go to a lesser known school. Companies come to your campus and recruit in large numbers, whereas at third tier schools you will have to make the effort yourself. Besides, I don't even go to an ivy, and even if I did I wouldn't brag around my degree. I do not think I am better than everyone else, although I do think I am more hardworking and serious about school than most of my high school peers. I think you're a fool if you think that going to an ivy league school makes no difference when it comes to career prospects. I mean, if it didn't, why would students work their butts off in school to get into a top college? </p>
<p>TUOwls don't be bitter that you didn't get into a top school. Just don't try to ridicule the accomplishments of those that have by saying "so what if you go to a top school, it doesn't mean you'll be more successful than me". That is ARROGANCE.</p>
<p>Please just don't be so insecure about whether or not you attend an Ivy-- like so many of the people here. Enjoy wherever you go & do your very best. Let these others waste their time & energy on thinking so much about it.</p>
<p>I am not insecure about not attending an Ivy. I'm just amazed at how people can say there's no difference between attending HYP and Ohio State/ASU.</p>
<p>Mighty Nick I didn't mean you. Sorry you thought that. Ann Arbor has one TOP school that I know of, for sure! Any top tier school offers greater opportunities because of reputation then lower tier schools. I went to a 2nd tier univ, as did my husband. Our kids go to Ivys & they have no doubt about it better opportunities in every way. Doors open for them that astound us. Its true that you get something. But if they had to take loans to go there then forget it. They would work hard at the state univ. And no they are not snobs either. Most every kid volunteers in the community & in other countries. Actually where I went to college there were A LOT of Ivy reject loser attitudes. I felt sad for their anger. Senseless. Make the best of what you have & look forward!</p>