<p>My question for the day for those of you experienced with this process.</p>
<p>S now has one data point, Davidson, @~1700 undergrads, where he has experienced the size factor during session, and thinks it may be a wee bit too small. Has seen Dickinson, Trinity, & Wesleyan, all low 2000s, but not while in session. On the other end of the spectrum, has seen U Maryland & Penn in session....perhaps a wee bit too big. (Yes, this is much like Goldilocks.)</p>
<p>He has a number of other LACs in his sights, which fit him sports wise, and are in all about 2000 undergrads. So, my question is, for your kids, have they felt that a size around 2000 feels significantly bigger than the 1600-1700 undergrad size? Or is it just plain crazy to compare by numbers as other factors may contribute to the size feel? </p>
<p>Dilemma is to best target our next visits while in session, but we have very limited time from hereon thru early May.</p>
<p>Papa Chicken - Size of school turned out to be key for my D. Williams at 2000 was instantly discounted as too small. Cal was way too big. Schools around 5-7000 really felt right to her. Have you tried any schools that are small unis as opposed to LAC? The difference between 2000 and 5000 is pronounced.</p>
<p>My D attended Wesleyan, which is actually closer to 2800. It's a very big LAC. For what it's worth, my S and I visited Haverford and Swarthmore, which, at around 1100 and 1400, felt substantially smaller to him. Haverford, particularly, felt claustrophobic. You could really sense the difference. Not that one was better or worse, but for someone like him, who felt that Wes was barely big enough, it was a stretch to look at the others. Someone else might see it differently--looking for the cosiness of a Haverford, a Wesleyan might seem huge.</p>
<p>So i guess i am saying that the size difference seems noticeable, but different viewers might feel differently about those different sizes (wow, that was just barely coherent :)). But those are extremes. I don't imagine that 1600 vs 2000 would produce that seem that much of a difference.</p>
<p>yes Alumother, problem is that he would jump from D3 sport w/ potential recruiting hook to D1 (or club), probably not in the cards, for him to remain playing that is. May be the right thing to do though. Right now, trying to pin down whether we should jump to the mid-sized school strategy, or spend our limited time kicking the tires on the 2000+/- range. Sport inclusion however may mean going early, hence the interest of assessing the size factor this school year before sessions end.</p>
<p>Wesleyan does feel a lot bigger than either Haverford or Davidson, but that is because it is a lot bigger. It would also do very well on your diversity-meter:). I think the additional 300 or 400 students makes a difference between schools the size of Davidson (1600-1700 range) and Haverford (circa 1100). But then again, Haverford is somewhat expanded by the Bryn Mawr presence, as well as proximity to Philadelphia, just as Amherst, in the 1600 range, is perhaps expanded by the presence of the five-college consortium. Once you have 400 people in one class, it will be more than even the most gregarious person will ever get to know. </p>
<p>I am now several years removed from Williams, with its 2000-plus enrollment (parent of alum rather than student), but my recollection is that it does not feel much bigger socially than the schools in the 1,700 range. However, because of its incredible financial resources it has more varied academic offereings. i suspect that it tops even the larger Wesleyan in that respect.</p>
<p>It can definitely affect academics, and some extracurricular activities as well. In academics, it impacts smaller departments - especially things like foreign languages, where one needs a critical mass of folks to maintain language tables, language clubs, and to ensure a reasonable number of electives. Also true for music, theater, dance, and, in some places studio arts. But it can impact other departments as well - when there are four profs, and one is on leave, electives decline, mentoring opportunities decline, and ease of getting recommendations for grad/prof schools become more difficult. Also, in many schools, physics and/or astronomy. It will also impact E.C.s which require a substantial number of participants - musical theater, college orchestra, dance company.</p>
<p>One might not feel that difference between 1,700 and 2,000, but between 1,500 and 2,500, almost definitely.</p>
<p>you could try johns hopkins which has d3 sports (except lax) and an undergrad enrollment of about 4000. </p>
<p>the 3000-6000 range of people is very rare- as that is what i was looking for in a school. You could also try the claremont schools, esp. pomona, which have a total enrollment of about 5000 I think?</p>
<p>I can't really speak with any authority on whether 2000 "feels" larger than 1700, though I suspect not significantly. What may be more relevant in this situation is the location of the college. Davidson, NC is tiny and might magnify the feeling of "smallness" that your son is concerned about. Just something to consider, beyond just the size of the student body.</p>
<p>Adding intercollegiate athletics to the discussion makes enrollment a secondary consideration. If your son is truly serious about playing D3, the right fit in terms of each school's athletic program, academics, location, etc. far outweighs a few hundred kids, give or take. And, you're right, other factors contribute to the "size feel" like % of student body gone for study-abroad, for instance. My own son went back and forth about going Big 10 and playing club to playing varsity for a D3 LAC that fit all of his needs. He now is thrilled to have been recruited by a high quality LAC of 1300 kids and will be playing intercollegiate football. In the end, this opportunity was much more exciting to him than playing club lacrosse at a larger school.</p>
<p>I do not think there is one single answer to that question because schools can be very different despite having a similar size. Schools in remote locations offer a different experience than the ones that are part of a formal or informal consortium. When it comes to athletics, the smaller the student body is, the harder it becomes to become or remain competitive. The discussions about football at Williams, Amherst, and Swarthmore are indicative of the issues of smaller schools. Academics and athletics do complement each other, but have polarizing impacts on admissions and composition of student bodies.</p>
<p>There has been mention of the consortium that includes Amherst and the Haverford situation, but the consortium that truely combines small individual colleges with the advantages of a larger campus population is the case of the Claremont colleges.</p>
<p>I think some of it has to do with the particular campus, too. Just the physical layout of buildings and how the campus is situated viz-a-viz the surrounding area can make similarly sized schools feel very different.</p>
<p>Davidson's campus felt small and intimate to me. Smaller, for example, than either Williams' or Swarthmore's layouts, even though the acreage and enrollments aren't that different.</p>
<p>As far as enrollment size, I don't think there is any one "correct" answer. There are advantages and disadvantages to each size, just as there are advantages and disadvantages to small towns, small cities, and large cities. IMO, small enrollment is simultaneously the primary strength and the primary weakness of that format. I think the same thing could be said of a large state university.</p>
<p>From an academic standpoint, whether a particular school is "too small" or "too big" has a lot to do with the underlying financial resources to support the enrollment.</p>
<p>S1 went to Univ. of Rochester, which was a perfect size for him (4700 undergrads) - small enough for personal attention working with professors, yet large enough to give him lots of campus opportunities.</p>
<p>D attended HS with about 1200 kids, and knew that it was waaaay too small for college. She loves where she is, with 4000 undergrads. The dorm, floor, and her particular activities bring it down to size when she needs that.</p>
<p>Alum who remember Wesleyan when it was the same size as Amherst can attest to the impact the growth in the student body had on the surrounding community. Middletown, itself a rather large small town of 45,000, had no incentive to cater to student's needs. It wasn't until the kids began to spill out of the dormitories and into the working class neighborhoods between campus and Main Street that restaurants began to open and investors took a chance on opening a cineplex two blocks from campus. Today, there are bars downtown where none existed twenty years ago.</p>
<p>Mattmom - Academically, the impact was equally dramatic; there is just no way it would have continued to run the science labs with doctoral students (essentially, deciding to run them all year round) while the undergrad student population remained <1600. And they probably would not have gambled on a chi-chi new department like Film Studies had it remained Amherst's size.</p>
<p>thanks all...many of the schools you have mentioned are on the possibilities list. I believe the best course is, as GoBlue suggested, meet with some coaches (a few in planning now) regardless of size & see how things balance out, learning how the various campus layouts, undergrad sizes, & offerings depth fit into the "size" picture as we go. If S opts not to go D3, then the pressure for early decisions is somewhat abated & we'll have a bit more time to look at other sized schools.</p>
<p>Smith, at 2600, feels significantly bigger than Amherst at 1600. Duh.
I know my D would have felt claustrophobic at a small LAC.</p>
<p>Originally she was looking for a college bigger than her high school (3400) but then it clicked that her academic peer group was but a fraction of that and LAC's became comfortable in concept.</p>
<p>Yep, PC, visiting a school when in session can make a big difference. We found that out with Georgetown. Understand about scheduling difficulties.</p>
<p>Someone asked about Rice's size (sorry, Rice mom here!). Undergrad is around 2880, grad students brings the total up to 4855. The new president is recommending /planning to increase enrollment by about 1000 students over the next ten years - after they build another residential college or two. With the low student/faculty ratio (5:1) you don't get the problem of not enough profs in your field that you might at a smaller school, or one with a higher std/fct ratio. It's a nice size now, but should stay a nice size even if it grows by a thousand!</p>