<p>Question: I am a parent who happens to also be a school guidance counselor in a middle school. My question is this… If a student takes high school classes in middle school, such as a foreign language class, will colleges accept those credits or does the student need to continue on with their foreign language [...]</p>
<p>First, thank you Dean Rubenstone for addressing the ins and outs of foreign language in high school and college requirements.</p>
<p>I do wish to ask a followup question which arose when our son transferred from private school in 9th grade to our public school in 10th grade. In 9th grade at the private school (where teaching was more laid back, emphasized Spanish society rather than basic language drilling) he took Spanish II. The basics that year such as verb tense, vocabulary, idioms and pushing himself orally were not greatly achieved. His grade was a B.</p>
<p>Given this, we asked for a Spanish language placement exam when we registered for 10th grade at the local high school to see where they thought he might best fit, but were declined. As I understood Spanish III to be major reading and immersion speaking, I couldn’t see how the lack of language basics would bold well for entrance to this advanced class. I recommended instead that without the placement test, he repeat Spanish II and this time focus on vocab etc… which he did and has indeed benefited from. He will advance to Spanish III as a junior and then maybe Spanish IV as a senior.</p>
<p>What do you think future colleges will make of this situation of repeating Spanish II in different school systems 9th and 10th grade? How do you suggest he discuss this repeat on his college application? He was not repeating the course to have an easy year, but to get the fundamentals of Spanish down.</p>
<p>Lastly, do you think it wise he push himself to take Spanish IV given these circumstances, even though language is not his forte? Most colleges require 3 years of language, but many prefer 4. I don’t see him in AP Spanish due to his struggle with languages, and at our public school AP spanish teachers are native to the language (often hard to understand accent and speak very rapidly is what I understand from language talented students who struggle) as well as many of the AP students which yields a certain advantage.</p>
<p>Thank you in advance and I hope this question helps others.</p>
<p>While I agree with the characterization of language study in the referenced article for those students who start “late” in middle school, the description misses language immersion study that starts in pre-K/K. Such programs, mostly in private schools but increasingly in some public schools, vary in intensity. The best (often in french or chinese) result in developing true bilingualism by the time the student enters high school.</p>
<p>While bilingualism is relatively common in some European countries, it remains unusual in the United States. How do you recommend that bi-lingual students make it clear to the most selective colleges to which they apply that they have met and exceeded the language requirement?</p>
<p>Bumping up this thread.</p>
<p>Any CC’ers have some thoughts on these questions/issues? TIA.</p>
<p>To Giveherwingsmom:</p>
<p>First of all, thank you for calling me “Dean.” I do write the “Ask the Dean” column, but I’ve never officially been a dean of anything. Of course, most deans aren’t allowed to go to work in sweat pants and bare feet, so I’m not complaining. 
And I do ask “real” deans whenever a question requires genuine deanly imput.</p>
<p>Anyway, regarding your questions (which do not):</p>
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<p>In the “Additional Information” section (which you’ll find on most applications) or in a separate note or email, simply tell admission officials what you’ve told us. It’s always wise to explain all transcript irregularities, but colleges won’t think this one is a big deal at all, so just keep your explanation brief and to the point.</p>
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<p>At the more selective colleges, having only 3 years of a foreign language on his transcript and not 4 will be a little check mark in the minus column but not a total deal-breaker. There are no easy answers here. You’ll simply have to weigh the benefits of avoiding that smallish negative against the potential frustration and stress (and GPA impact) of an extra year of Spanish. I gather from your post that your son is just in 10th grade now --repeating Spanish 2. So I suggest that you wait to see how Spanish 3 goes next year before worrying too much about whether or not he’ll go on beyond that.</p>
<p>A key part of this decision will also be the big picture … that is, the rest of your son’s academic program. If, by dropping out of Spanish as a senior, he is able to double up in science or elect other courses that will enhance the rigor of his overall course load, this will make the language loss less of a liability.</p>
<p>You can also consider summer immersion programs or online classes that might not “look as good” on a transcript as AP Spanish but would at least provide some foreign language experience beyond just 3 years.</p>
<p>Thank you very much for your reasoned answers. I hope they help others on these slightly tricky high school foreign language issues and apologize my question was off from your original thread question of middle school foreign languages and high school impact. :)</p>
<p>Your questions were right on topic, Giveherwingsmom. This whole issue of foreign language choices can be a tough call because college requirements do vary (typically between 2 years and 4, with a few “nones” in the mix) and “Recommendations” vs. “Requirements” are not consistent either.</p>
<p>Also, the most selective colleges definitely prefer 4 years of the same language–even over combinations like 3+3. Personally, I like it when students have taken 3 years each of two very different languages (e.g., Spanish and Chinese) or even 3+2. But often “elite-college” admission officials claim that students don’t really get into the “meat” of a language–its literature–until year 4. So any briefer language experience doesn’t fully expose a student to its most essential aspects. </p>
<p>Again, that’s an official position, not my own. So don’t shoot the messenger (or the faux Dean!)</p>
<p>Sorry, fogcity … I missed your question earlier:</p>
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<p>Students can be bi-lingual for a number of reasons. Commonly it’s because more than one language is spoken at home and/or the student, even if American, is raised in a country where English is not the native tongue.</p>
<p>Increasingly, too (although not nearly enough, in my opinion), immersion programs in both U.S. private and public schools allow students to study in English plus a second language from pre-school or kindergarten on.</p>
<p>When a student is multi-lingual, this information can be conveyed to colleges in several ways. Applications typically ask for the native language and/or the language(s) spoken at home. This information can also go on resumes (for those who choose to submit them) or can be included in the “Additional Information” sections of applications.</p>
<p>When a student has studied a second language for years thanks to a school immersion program, this, too, can be included on a resume and in the “additional information” section of applications. The school counselor should also mention it in his or her recommendation, and a teacher reference could mention it as well. </p>
<p>However, admission officials will be most interested in seeing the fruits of this labor via strong scores on SAT Subject Tests and/or AP exams. Also, if the student learned to speak the language in elementary and middle school (even fluently) but didn’t stick with the formal study of that language long enough to delve into its literature, this will be something of a liability at admissions decision time, at least at the so-called “elite” colleges. (See my previous post about that).</p>
<p>What is considered an acceptable SAT foreign language score for nonnative speakers of that language at highly selective colleges? SAT 2 exams in some languages like Spanish and Chinese are taken by native speakers so naturally they score high on the curve.</p>
<p>ProxyGC–It’s hard to label test scores as “acceptable” or not, but certainly anything in the 600’s should pass muster as acceptable at the highly selective colleges, and 500’s aren’t deal-breakers either (nor is any single Subject Test with any score, for that matter). I also feel that if a student is going to get a lower-than-the-norm score on a Subject Test, then foreign language is the “best” place to mess up. That’s because college admission officials often realize that some high schools have foreign language programs that may be weaker than other areas so there is more “forgiveness” in this area than others when scores are low.</p>
<p>Note also that the tests are not marked on a curve, so the native speakers don’t affect the scores of the non-native speakers. Also, admission officials usually don’t put a lot of weight on the Subject Test score of a native speaker. For example, if a kid who speaks Chinese at home gets an 800 on the test, it won’t impress most admission officials as much as non-native speaker who gets a 650.</p>
<p>When I counsel students I suggest that, if they take the SAT II in a native tongue (other than English), they should not count this test as one of the required ones but only use it as an extra to demonstrate competency in both speaking and reading their first language.</p>