Does NMSF matter for the top-tiers?

[Wolverine86]

<p>

If you’re a student who has received NMS designation, good for you. Pat yourself on the back. You’re a good standardized test-taker.

</p>

<p>Got it. Glad you clarified that. Doesn’t sound condescending whatsoever. </p>

<p>

NMFs must also have high GPAs, a high SAT score to confirm their PSAT, excellent recommendations from their school, and no discipline issues. Pretty much everything that every high performing student at their school has…PLUS they performed extremely well on the PSAT.

</p>

<p>As I said upthread, there’s much more to it than just test scores and you do a disservice to all those kids by insinuating that they’re one-dimensional.</p>

<p>

The NMS selection process should be made more transparent. It is not strictly merit-based, which is what its name implies.

</p>

<p>Very few merit scholarships of any sort are strictly merit based. Check nearly any university website where they describe the requirements for their merit scholarships and you’ll find GPA/Test Scores are only part of the equation…usually the entering argument. The rest depends on the individual scholarship, but holistic doesn’t mean opaque. Actually, the majority of NM Scholars (5800 out of 8300) are awarded University sponsored or corporate scholarships and those are very transparent in their criteria IMO. I’ll grant you the $2500 one-time awards are something of a mystery…but so are admissions to your coveted “top tier” schools. If you want to take pot-shots at programs, there’s plenty of threads on those subjects to provide fresh targets for you.</p>

<p>Whether you choose to acknowledge or appreciate your own NMF status is your choice, but I congratulate you on achieving it nonetheless. You obviously worked hard and excelled in ALL facets of your HS studies, and you EARNED the recognition. If you think the process is “flawed” you’re entitled to your opinion, but telling students it’s “no big deal” and the scholarships they were awarded were the result of a “flawed” process is the definition of a back-handed compliment. Please Lucy…take the football and find another Charlie Brown thread to criticize.</p>

<p>Have a great day yourself!! :)</p>

[Bartleby007]

<p>

As I said upthread, there’s much more to it than just test scores and you do a disservice to all those kids by insinuating that they’re one-dimensional.

I did nothing of the sort.
To clarify…
The awardees are not one-dimensional.
The criterium used for first-pass NMS selection is rather one-dimensional.

Very few merit scholarships of any sort are strictly merit based. Check nearly any university website where they describe the requirements for their merit scholarships and you’ll find GPA/Test Scores are only part of the equation…usually the entering argument.

I absolutely agree that very few merit scholarships are strictly merit-based. I suppose that’s why I find the name of the scholarship in question (“National Merit Scholarship”) so amusing.

Whether you choose to acknowledge or appreciate your own NMF status is your choice, but I congratulate you on achieving it nonetheless. You obviously worked hard and excelled in ALL facets of your HS studies, and you EARNED the recognition.

I took a test and did well on it. For this, I’m congratulated? Thank you…I think. </p>

<p>In case the OP is still monitoring the thread, let me reiterate the following:
Top-tier colleges really don’t care about NMS designation. It means very little.</p>

[mom2collegekids]

<p>Some people have a problem with the word “national”, but many national competitions begin at the state and lower levels, and those that “move forward” in each region/state are the better than some losers in other states.</p>

<p>the state science fair winners that go on to national are not all better than the losers in various states. But, in the end, it’s a national competition.</p>

[jennieling]

<p>Bartleby007, your argument does not make sense. You say that the NMF is one-dimensional and just based on one’s skill at standardized test-taking. Then you go on to say to the students who miss the NMSF cutoff : “Presumably your SAT score will be very good.” So you are reassuring them that they have a good chance of getting into a top-tier school because their SAT score will be very good–ie that they will perform well on a “standardized test”. So YOU are counting on standardized test-taking skill here, just a different standardized test! And how can you assume that a kid who has a low score on the PSAT will have a high score on the PSAT? Of course, many do–the SAT is often done a full year later, and the students are better prepared. But you can’t assume that. Your logic doesn’t make sense to me. Also, I agree with Wolverine that there is more to getting NMF than just test scores.</p>

[Bartleby007]

<p>

Bartleby007, your argument does not make sense. You say that the NMF is one-dimensional and just based on one’s skill at standardized test-taking. Then you go on to say to the students who miss the NMSF cutoff : “Presumably your SAT score will be very good.” So you are reassuring them that they have a good chance of getting into a top-tier school because their SAT score will be very good–ie that they will perform well on a “standardized test”. So YOU are counting on standardized test-taking skill here, just a different standardized test!

@jennieling: I think we might have a reading comprehension issue here. Actually, I’m reassuring the students who barely missed the NMSF cut-off that they’ll do well in the college admissions process…not that they’ll have a good chance at getting into a top-tier college. Assuming that students will perform similarly on both the PSAT and SAT tests, a student who barely misses the NMSF cut-off score will probably score in the 2000-2200 range on the SAT. That’s a solid score…and assumes no additional test prep work (between the taking of the PSAT and that of the SAT). With formal/informal test prep, it’s certainly possible to bump up the SAT score higher than that. Of course, we are just talking about standardized test scores…which are not even the most important dimension of a student’s application from the point of view of a college admissions committee.

And how can you assume that a kid who has a low score on the PSAT will have a high score on the PSAT?

Hmmm. Well, I never wrote that. Perhaps you meant to write the following:
“And how can you assume that a kid who has a low score on the PSAT will have a high score on the SAT?”
Even with the revised sentence above, the fact remains that I never wrote that. There’s a difference between “a low score on the PSAT” and barely missing the NMSF score cut-off in a student’s state of residence (or whatever NMSQT pool he/she is in).

Of course, many do–the SAT is often done a full year later, and the students are better prepared. But you can’t assume that. Your logic doesn’t make sense to me.

For the record, I don’t understand the logic underlying your post either. I hope I was able to clarify a few things in this post. Have a great day!</p>

[LonelyHapax]

<p>Personally, I thought NMSC was silly when I learned about it, and having gotten it I still think it’s silly.</p>

<p>Getting a high PSAT score and qualifying to be a Finalist is indicative of a strong student. But I think a number of stronger students are unfairly eliminated when they might have significantly higher achievements academically and in other facets of their lives.</p>

<p>I should probably clarify my opening statement; NMSC can choose whatever method they’d like to distribute a scholarship. Every scholarship has to start eliminating based on their own criteria. What I don’t agree with is being offered full rides or seriously lowered costs at many schools because of it. I wish colleges would offer all the funds they put into NMFs to the general admissions to be determined solely by merit. Instead they fight for Finalists so they can boast how many they have.</p>

<p>All Finalists are good students, but not all exceptional students are Finalists.</p>

<p>(Also, I agree the by-state thing isn’t very fair. You could live in a rural middle-of-nowhere town, but if their is a major city in your state, you get no consideration for you achievement based on your available resources.)</p>

<p>~~~
To OP, I don’t think the really top-tier schools hold it against you. They’ll attract enough NFs without giving them preferential admissions. If you have strong SATs, GPA, and ECs, you have just as good a shot as any of them.</p>

[perazziman]

<p>

Geography? Is that what NMS is all about? If that’s what it is, let’s change the name of the competition to reflect it, e.g., the California State Merit Scholar competition, the North Dakota State Merit Scholar contest, etc. But then the scholarship would lose the cachet of the “national” moniker, wouldn’t it?

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<p>US senators are elected by their respective states. So, are they state senators or US senators? If they are US senators then why are they not called state senators? I think you are making a bigger deal out of it than it is.</p>

[agupte]

As little as 3 years ago (when this thread was written), I thought it did a lot.

It does not matter that much. I also think the PSAT/NMSQT is a corrupt test when compared to real SAT.

1. No Essay Section, which drastically changes scores. Also, essay is one of most important parts of application!
2. Shorter Test: 1 minor error can knock you down 50 points. That's sad.
3. Insane grammar curve: This year, as 11th grade, I got 710W which I though was bad, but I only got 2 questions wrong, none of which I have learned the rules for.
4. Some people just get lucky (or unlucky) on PSAT. There is someone in my school with 2250 PSAT but 2130 SAT 6 months later after studying. How is that possible? She must have gotten lucky on PSAT. BTW, she qualified for NMSF. My scores were opposite (2130 PSAT, 2250 SAT, essay helped a lot), Commended Scholar

On the other hand, last years Salutatorian got 2140 PSAT, 2330 SAT, and got into UPENN.

1. It is just one of thousands of companies (but unfortunately one of the best known) giving out merit scholarship money. Find another company that actually bases scholarship on real SAT.

I think this should be the process:

1. October: Students take full 10 section SAT.
2. September: Students with above 2100 automatically qualify for NMSF (about 30000)
3. December: Students with good SAT, GPA, EC, move on to NMF (About 14000)
4. March: 8500 get scholarship.

[albert69]

@agupte NMSC does not consider the essay when they look at NMSFs SAT scores. They use the MC score x 10 to “equate” it to the PSAT. That was good for me because my MC score was higher than my overall writing score.

[Rdtsmith]

By top tier if you mean Ivies, Stanford, MIT and Ivy like I think NMF can possibly set you apart from the next person who doesn’t have it but since none offer merit aid for being a NMF I would think its not a huge deal.

[Duvarc]

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@agupte

1. No Essay Section, which drastically changes scores. Also, essay is one of most important parts of application!

SAT essays are drastically different from college application essays… Considering that college board only give you 25 minutes, the sat essay doesn’t measure how good you are at writing at all