<p>I agree with you - I applied to Northwestern (I was the admitted student) for just that reason - the MMSS program. I speak of general trends in the analysis above.</p>
<p>^It’s understandable every now and then someone from UChicago would ■■■■■ the NU board. Speaking of yield, NU’s yield was 38%, not 30% like you “remembered”. Good luck in trying to make any one of us believe you.</p>
<p>I just did a search and found that you never came to NU board before. You also didn’t post any NU decision yesterday. Now you are telling us you are admitted? You tell us if we have a reason to believe you on this one also.</p>
<p>By the way, I don’t believe you really know what “evidence” means.</p>
<p>@snipersas - congratulations on your admission to NU MMSS!</p>
<p>My sister-in-law has been a counselor at a prestigious private local high school for over 30 years, and she says she would lose her job in a heartbeat if she ever gave a college admissions person privileged information about a student’s school preferences that might work against them.</p>
<p>I assure you she would NOT risk her job to maintain a relationship with any college admissions person and assume most high school counselors feel the same way.</p>
<p>Sam Lee:</p>
<p>snipersas is exactly right in what he’s saying, so I’m not sure why you’re opposing him. Though NU might have a 38% yield, this was only attained by cheating the system by admitting a ton more people ED. In RD where students actually have decisions between NU and other schools, NU only has something like a 20% yield.</p>
<p>NU certainly is trying to break its reputation as a safety school for the Ivies; that’s why NU’s president openly declares his support for admitting more people ED: to get more passionate people in there and to stop having people come who just didn’t make it in anywhere else.</p>
<p>It certainly would make sense that NU would be using yield protection here. Whether they are or not, no one knows, but snipersas certainly makes some valid points.</p>
<p>phuriku,</p>
<p>You’ve complained about NU “cheating” with ED on many threads before. Have you done the same to other schools with ED? Your intense interest in NU has been quite flattering. One can argue EA also enhances yield; UChicago admission is more clever and strategic than you might think. </p>
<p>NU hasn’t been a safety school for the Ivies for a long time. It’s not that long ago that UChicago had higher admit rate and lower scores than NU. If NU was a safety, so was UChicago but I am pretty sure you would never use that term for your school even back then. FYI, I never thought it was.</p>
<p>Ah, Phuriku… infamous UChicago ■■■■■ who frequents the NU board IIRC?</p>
<p>Unless I’m mistaken, Ivies have traditionally admitted ~40% EA or ED, so NU has just been moving toward where they have always been.</p>
<p>The only point SL has disputed is the claim that an NU Admissions person phoned high school counselors to determine student’s school preference, then waitlisted those who didn’t say NU was their top choice.</p>
<p>This claim is frankly absurd. Does anyone honestly think that NU admission folks, working to process a record 32,000 applicants, urged even ONE high school counselor to risk their job in the interest of improving their yield? </p>
<p>I don’t buy it for a second.</p>
<p>Sam Lee: I complain about NU’s ED because it’s basically doubled the number of students it admits ED over the past few years. Other ED schools, including Ivies, have not. It is quite obvious that NU has done this so that it can artificially lower its admit rate, as it tries to catch up to Chicago and the like. But it is really unfair to applicants when the ED admission rate is 35% and the RD admission rate is 10%, wouldn’t you say? I think it’s absolutely absurd that no one questions such an incredible disparity around here. I also think it’s ridiculous that I’m criticized for merely pointing out such a disparity.</p>
<p>(Also, if you read closely, I’ve never said that NU is a safety for the Ivies. I don’t think it is, either, and I’ve actually advocated for NU on other boards because I think it’s very underrated. However, I think NU has a very undeserved reputation for being a backup for the Ivies, and NU is trying to break that image via ED and other measures, countermeasures which I ALSO find to be unjust, hence my criticism.)</p>
<p>MomCares: People on CC are hopelessly delusional about their own schools, so I simply try to bring reality to all discussions. I do it on the Chicago boards, too. That you’re willing to not give this completely possible scenario further consideration and instead unconditionally rely upon the beneficence of NU indicates that you’re one of the delusional.</p>
<p>You can actually see the data on ed admission rates, phuriku, and they don’t support your argument.</p>
<p>[EARLY</a> DECISION - The Choice Blog - NYTimes.com](<a href=“http://thechoice.blogs.nytimes.com/tag/early-decision/]EARLY”>early decision - The Choice Blog - The New York Times)</p>
<p>@phuriku - in case you don’t see it, what @profnomad’s chart demonstrates is that virtually EVERY school with early admission has a higher early-admit rate than their normal admit rate.</p>
<p>“Harvard reports that it offered admission to 18 percent of those who applied this fall under its new, nonbinding early action program, compared to an overall admission rate of 6 percent for the current freshman class; Princeton offered acceptance to 21 percent of its early applicants to its new nonbinding program, compared to 8 percent overall last year; and Stanford extended acceptance offers to nearly 13 percent in its nonbinding early program, compared to 7 percent overall last year.”</p>
<p>Also - “For example, at the University of Pennsylvania, 47 percent of the next freshman class is set; at Johns Hopkins, Columbia and Middlebury, that figure is 45 percent; at Dartmouth, 42 percent.”</p>
<p>It has been shown time and again (and you can see it by reviewing the ED versus RD Decision threads here) that the early pool is always on average more qualified than the RD pool. Fewer kids waste a hail mary application on binding ED.</p>
<p>If NU REALLY wanted to decrease their admit rate they could be like UChicago and admit half as many people. ;-D</p>
<p>And why on earth do you care so much about NU when you have nothing to do with the school?</p>
<p>I am not certain if it is illegal for an adcom to ask a school guidance counselor about a kid’s preferences. OTOH, if they were asked, how many GCs have a way of knowing it other than make a guess? Does not sound scientific enough as a process for eliminating students.
Based on how the presentations have changed over the past three years by our NU adcom, I understand that they are looking at interest as one of the most important criteria at this time. Our adcom said every email, phone call, or other form of communication by a student gets noted in their database for the applicant. They even want any communications with a prof/dept processed through the admissions office to be aware of your contacts showing interest. So if someone got a 31 and made 3 visits to campus and sat in on several classes, that kid can easily be picked over someone with a 36 and never did anything more than filing the app and attendign an interview.</p>
<p>It is true that HPME kids get waitlisted if they don’t get picked by the program. I have asked an adcom and I was told that HPME kids are overwhelmingly interested in that program and not NU undergrad. So saying yes and showing some more interest about staying on WL gives NU the idea that you do care about undergrad. Our D pulled application when HPME interview did not come through. The rejection before interview came through with a form to ask for withdrawal if no longer interested in NU. When an email was sent asking to pull, NU sent a message saying the application will be kept on file for one year in case there is an interest in transferring. So NU seems to be doing exactly what they profess in terms of taking more transfer students. We withdrew two other applications and one never responded and the other said ok, it is gone. </p>
<p>UChicago OTOH, leaves much to be desired. They bombard students with multiple copies of their junk mail (I guess they think it is quirky but two or three copies a student leaves much to wonder about the database indexing capabilities). My D applied EA and was deferred. She sent a note to adcom if an extra rec was received and here is the reply.</p>
<p>Thanks for your email. We do have some advice for deferred students that we’ve put on our blog: <a href=“https://blogs.uchicago.edu/collegeadmissions/[/url]”>https://blogs.uchicago.edu/collegeadmissions/</a>
We did receive your letter from XXXXX. </p>
<p>Please know that this is an extremely competitive process, and we just don’t have beds and classroom space for all the talented students, like yourself, who apply. Also know that the admissions committee will thoroughly review all deferred applicants in regular notification.
All the best,</p>
<p>Who writes such crappy emails to a prospective student on a deferred list? Was that stupid sentence about beds even necessary? The adcom makes it obvious that she has no clue how to communicate with an obviously anxious applicant who is trying to understand how to proceed further. My D never bothered to send that email professing Chicago to be number 1 choice since Chicago turned out to be not all that.</p>
<p>
Or perhaps they play the mind game and tell you “this is not a junk mail. We “really” think you are a good fit. Apply to us”. Maybe that’s how their number of applications has skyrocketed. Once you take the bait, they are too busy to care about you individually, hence a generic email not even answering your question. But don’t think any of us will be going to UChicago board to criticise in the name of justice. We’ll leave that to their alums like phuriku. :rolleyes:</p>
<p>I was also bombarded with duplicate marketing mail from UChicago, which I have to admit was flattering, at first. They spelled out my name in fancy letters on a postcard (personal touch) & even sent me a Tshirt. </p>
<p>I got sucked into all of it because I thought they really wanted me & under pressure, applied to UChicago & was WL.</p>
<p>How weak am I?!</p>
<br>
<br>
<p>Our S (a junior) is currently getting this treatment. Of course, he gets the same from at least 25 other schools, and watched his older sister similarly courted, so it slides right off his back but it is funny (?) to hear some of his friends explain how desperately Stanford wants them. ;-D </p>
<p>I love that NU is not big on junk mail. Even their admit packet is tastefully understated.</p>
<p>This thread is funny! I LOLd at snipersas’s “NU Called My GC” comment!!</p>
<p>It’s almost Stephen Colbert-like! When my wife and I finally met my son’s GC, she had no idea NU was his #1 choice - and he is one of the top students in the school, and has had NU as a goal since Jr High. Our HS sends 2-3 kids a year to NU, but she has WAAAY too many kids to handle, our son had never met her, and she spends most of her time working with “problem” kids, not kids that are qualified for HYP-NU.</p>
<p>It’s still a funny story! With 32,000 applicant’s and a deadline approcahing, an AdCom calls a GC to be a snitch!!! But in the real world? Why would they do this? To see if they should WL or admit a kid? And really, how many GC’s know what their kids are thinking?
Funny!</p>
<p>I think that over the past 5 years or so, there has been a paradigm shift in college admissions – for lack of a better term, let’s call it “Common App.” NU as well as most other schools are trying to figure out how to deal with this, because basically, their pre-Common App data is stale.</p>
<p>My belief (and actually I’ve done some simplistic modelling on this) is that the Common App has little impact on the Quality of School that a student goes to, but it likely to decrease the probability that a RD student gets into his/her first choice. If so, this is not an optimal result for either the student or the school.</p>
<p>Increasing ED admits (so long as this does not reduce the quality of student admitted) really does ensure that the students who really love a school and who are qualified have a better chance of getting into their first choice. The downside – because ED limits the ability to scholarship shop, the whole process favors students who are better off financially – and it can impact on diversity. (Which is part of the reason that Harvard, Yale, Princeton and I think Stanford now use Single Choice Early Action).</p>
<p>This is a long way of saying that to the extent that NU has increased it’s ED acceptances, I view it as a reaction to the brave new Common App era reality, rather than an effort to ‘artificially’ boost its numbers. I note that NU is also making an effort to improve in diversity – hopefully, all of this makes it a much stronger university.</p>
<p>I highly doubt the GC/Adcom story by snipersas only because a GC wouldn’t and shouldn’t do that. Even if the GC knew that the students would get in to better schools and definitely were not going to NU, it helps the high school and its prestige to know that they had multiple students accepted into an elite college. Also, a GC’s main goal (at least in my school) is to get a student into the most colleges possible; this not only helps the school and the student, but it helps the GC’s career as well since they can now brag that they got a bunch of kids into some prestigious school.</p>
<p>Also, it is very common for schools, even Ivys, to accept a lot more people ED.</p>
<p>Unfortunatley, this does happen although I have never heard of a GC at a public school doing this. 2 very good friends at prestigous private schools are seniors. At one of the schools my friends S has a likley letter from an IVY (recruited athlete - academically very qualified as well), his HS college counselor speaks to ADCOM’s regularly to maintain the relationships. The school has a great relationship with Wesleyan, COlgate, and Bucknell (3 of the other schools he applied to) - he was wait-listed at all 3 and his counselor TOLD HIM that he let those schools know about his likely letter from another school. He did get into GW and his current school has no relationship with them. My other friend at another school exac situation but not an athlete was waitlisted at 4 schools (2 safety’s) with her likely at an IVY. She got into her 2 safety schools becuase her private school did not speak to them and has no relationship with those shcools. Same scenario, her college counselor told her AND her parents that they let a school know a kid is highly unlikely to accept in order to maintain the trelationship.</p>
<p>Unfortunately this is very unfair to public school kids, but hey I guess you get what you pay for - IT SUCKS!</p>
<p>BTW - my D is a freshman at NU and could not be happier. She is thriving academically and socially. She was proud to tell me when she was home this week that it is great to be at a a school where she can have such a great balance and where the students are so enthusiastic and involved.</p>
<p>My daughter (35 ACT, 1460 SAT, good, maybe not great ECs) was waitlisted at Northwestern, but accepted at Washington University. She was at Youth Leg this weekend and someone there got into NU but was waitlisted at Wash U. I believe there is a lot of randomness. </p>
<p>I interview for Princeton and every year I see fabulous students rejected. After hearing stories about how hard these students have worked and seeing them still not get in because there are just too many super-crazy-qualified applicants, I told my daughter I didn’t want her to spend her entire high school stressing about college. When does that ever end? When do you get to enjoy your life? It might be a blessing to go to a “lesser” school and enjoy yourself ! I really believe that, but it’s hard to stick to. There’s a part of me that wants to be able to say she went to <insert prestigious="" name="" here="">. Really I would rather her be happy and feel unstressed enough to be able to find what she loves and enjoy her life. I went to JHU undergrad and Princeton grad and it was an excellent learning experience, but it was really stressful. Not sure I would recommend my path to a beloved child yet here we are waiting to hear from exactly those schools. Sigh.</insert></p>
<p>And therein lies the problem- when teachers, parents & students alike consider schools like NU, etc. a “lesser” school vs HYPS. How do you define a “lesser” school? Isn’t is all about the right fit?</p>
<p>It is about the right fit and it’s also not your life, it’s your childs. Sorry there is a part of you that wants to be able to say she went to a prestigious school but get over it. All you really want is for your child to be happy. In case you don’t know, four years ago my daughter turned down Yale and Dartmouth for NU, and has never looked back, someone else on this board turned down Yale, went to NU, and is now in graduate school at Harvard I believe.</p>