<p>UPenn, Columbia and Brown don’t break their data down by high school source.</p>
<p>Dartmouth
60.4% public school
34.2% private school
5.4% parochial</p>
<p>Quote: About 3,327,000 students are expected to graduate from high school in 2009–10 including 3,005,000 from public high schools and 321,000 from private high schools (source). </p>
<p>If you think solely about odds, if Dartmouth (and i’ve seen Brown’s numbers, it is pretty similar) takes 34-39% from 321K, and about 60% from a pool of ove 3.3MM, private schools must help. Of course, the other side of this is the overall applicant pool from private schools will include more very well qualified students than the overall public school population. However, are we overemphasizing numbers? Especially someone like Exie, who works in/with admissions, we all know it’s not simply a probablility game . . .</p>
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<p>The overall pool from private schools is likely to have more students who are outliers. You forget about the therapeutic and special needs schools.</p>
<p>I’d wager that a student who is #1 in his public high school class of 1250 will be attractive to elite schools. And, as there are 10x more public schools than private schools, I’d guess that the overall public school pool contains many competitive applicants.</p>
<p>None of these breakdowns are meaningful unless you know what percentage of the applicant POOL comes from each type of school. As Erlanger pointed out, 30+% from a very small fraction of the total students seems to be quite significant. However, nothing can be extrapolated from that unless one knows what percentage of the applicants came from private schools.</p>
<p>An example: say only 16% of 100 admitted students were legacies but only 24 applied. That’s an admissions rate of 66%.</p>
<p>No schools (to my knowledge) release enough information to be truly useful, probably because even with all the data, it’s still not “useful” in the sense that it helps anyone to know these things. </p>
<p>These are all correlations, not causal relationships.</p>
<p>
I bet the majority of the strongest students from both public and private schools particularly of both coasts are likely to apply to some of the ivies. These colleges are the most generous in giving out need-based FA anyway. It wouldn’t hurt to apply. I’m sure a higher percentage of private school students are applying, but with an admit rate of around 10% do you think that’d change anything - meaning, would they have trouble in soliciting enough strong public school students apply that they have to settle with some otherwise less strong students from private schools?</p>
<p>Of course, numbers and stats tell something about trends and patterns, but they are not an individual chance analysis. Again, “individual results may vary” - significantly!</p>
<p>Exactly - stat’s don’t tell the whole story.</p>
<p>As for number of PS students versus BS students - remember that BS students are self-selecting at the moment of acceptance to high school PS students come from the general population. BUT the majority of PS students aren’t applying to IVY’s (either lack of exposure to option, lack of academic preparation, lack of general interest). So those that do are self-selecting as well.</p>
<p>So the number coming from public schools is still impressive. BS students have an edge over general PS students, but I’d like to see a head to head analysis of just the PS vs BS actually accepted. The stats on that would be fascinating. But as Princessdad so eloquently stated, while BS have some advantages, there are a lot of activities available at PS that are not available at BS as well.</p>
<p>So stats are a starting point, but not an ending point. The end point should be what school offers the most challenge for that specific child. College is a bonus, not the goal.</p>
<p>Catg
Stanford does accept 18% “normal” legacies vs 8% reg applications vs even more “super” legacies (big donation or heavy involvement alumni). - but the legacies are = to regular in all other ways. As I rember, they get someone else on addition to “local” adcom mber to read and advocate for them.</p>
<p>One other effect of the “guaranteed” free route for < $100,000 income and NO non- need based FA is that slot of upper middle and lower upper class kids cannot afford the Ivy and go to cheaper state school or one they can get aid to</p>
<p>cecil,</p>
<p>I never said “most”. I did say “many”, but a better choice may have been to say “Not all PEA Seniors were accepted to their top college choices”, but that is pretty much stating the obvious.</p>
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<p>Very good point, Princessdad!</p>
<p>At the risk of getting negative feedback from some non-tolerant folks, I’m going to jump in to the fray again as well as to go back to the original question which was “does prep school help college admission chances?” It didn’t ask, “can it give kids who need challenges a better experience than PSs?” It didn’t ask “if you have a lousy public high school, can it give your child something more?” </p>
<p>One of the things I see from this discussion, is that not everyone here is in the same boat. Most of us who have kids applying or who are now on the other side of applying and who have been accepted to a Tier 1 BS, have smart kids who enjoy a good challenge and who will likely do well when applying to top tier colleges. However, some of us do have fantastic public schools with lots of parent enrichment and community opportunities. Our PS as well has a pretty good track record of getting kids into the ivies. However, I did my own research and number crunching and looked at the past 4 year college matriculation stats posted by some of the tier 1 BSs and compared against my own PS, and just looking at numbers alone admitted to the IVIES, not individual students, on average it gives my son an edge. However I’m not sure it’s worth the $200K. </p>
<p>When we went to revisit day at one of the BSs my son was accepted to, the headmaster asked parents if they were looking for their child to achieve a lifelong passion for learning or an ivy league college education as the BS outcome. Most parents of course raised their hands for the first while only one parent raised their hand for the latter. The headmaster joked everyone was lieing. They know that many parents want a BS education as an edge to gaining entrance to an IVY or some other college of similar stature. </p>
<p>Here are a couple of my questions: is it worth $200K just to put him with other kids who have a love of learning? I remember going to the public library over the summer and studying physics on my own because it was fun. I didn’t need others to prompt me. Does it really prepare you for the rigors of a top flight college? I went to an ivy and I didn’t study. It wasn’t til medical school where I learned that you can’t possibly know everything there is to know and where I discovered what studying was about. I don’t think colleges are that rigorous or academically challenging, even the ivies. Classes two or three days a week? </p>
<p>Okay, maybe the college csg at boarding schools is better, but worth the $200K? If you have a bad PS, if your child is not challenged, if your child will do better in small classes with other motivated kids, maybe…but I think as others are saying, it doesn’t necessarily give smart kids who would otherwise have done just as well at a good PS, an edge at college entrance time. </p>
<p>I guess I am still trying to figure out why I sent in the $5,000 deposit check. The headmaster at this one BS agreed that a BS education won’t necessarily give your child an edge when it comes time to apply to colleges. But yes, it can help develop a smart kid, however those opportunities for leadership and APs and “extras” are only in the last two years. The first two years are pretty similar to my public HS (physics, language, Eng 9, advanced math etc.) </p>
<p>If your goal is to get your child into an ivy league college, it probably offers no additional edge where you have a great PS. I’m not talking about a goal of finding a college that is the best fit for your child. (That term is so over-used, I am not even sure what it means anymore)</p>
<p>What is ‘best fit’ in re to BSs? Is best fit the BS took your child because they needed a good football player and your kid is a talented quarterback? It’s a good fit for them. I wanted to give my child something my parents couldn’t afford…a private school education, but I also don’t want to hurt his chances of getting into a great college if he could do better coming from a top PS. </p>
<p>I also think there is a developing backlash against BS these days if you read the postings from the parents writing about college admission chances. (I didn’t think I would be looking this far ahead either, but a lot of us are.) Maybe, the historical aspect of top BSs being feeder schools in days of old for ivies for rich kids, is now creating some negativity. Times are changing, and I think we really won’t know for sure, because things may be different four years from now. Each of us have our own reasons for supporting our kids’ decisions to attend BSs, and it may be easier for those who have bad PSs. I’m not even sure we have a good fit at the BS we finally chose. Not sure I want to give up my critical thinking and say yet that the two BSs that accepted my son know best about who will thrive there. Not there yet. I’d like to still think that I know my son and he knows himself best and we both think he would be better off at another BS. Yes, I am still on that kick.</p>
<p>In the end, I am hoping that the experience will be something not found at the local great PS and that he will still end up at a great college so he can have additional opportunities down the road when he chooses what he wants to do with his life.</p>
<p>Redbluegoldgreen- I’m pretty sure I know where your kid is going! ;-), unless headmasters all over give the same speech. I am not an expert on college admissions. I know nothing about Harvard, Yale, Princeton MIT or Stanford. However, I will say that from my observation of my children and their friends that here in semi rural New England, students who go to prep school do much MUCH better in college admissions in general than their public school friends who had equal abilities in middle school. By much better, I mean that they have a much better chance of getting into the Barnard, Georgetown, Boston College, Wesleyan, Bates, Bowdoin, Williams, Amherst, NYU, Middlebury, Johns Hopkins, Emory, Vanderbilt, Carnegie Mellon etc level schools. Once again, I am not an expert, and this is just my personal observation over the last few years.</p>
<p>we actually chose Exeter, not the BS mentioned here that we revisited.</p>
<p>redblue
You hit it on the head. It turns out what is best for the child.</p>
<p>Our oldest thrived in a PHS with all of the “extras” it had. Our second wanted to try something different and “find herself” - did a year at top PS and then decided to come back home due to the “extras” and that classes just as good. While not everybody at home values an education, her close friends do and challenge each other as much as anywhere - plus she has friends who will be auto mechanics, etc. D3 wants to escape legacy of D1/D2 and we shall see.</p>
<p>BayState: Sister lives in Needham. Wellesley and Needham grad’s have very high IVY attendance.</p>
<p>Princess’Dad: I agree that kids at excellent public schools can hold their own in college admissions, and since you mention Wellesley and Needham, here’s something else. A Better Chance, which places promising minority students in the nation’s top schools, also runs programs that combine a boarding situation with a PUBLIC high school. They run programs at Wellesley High, Andover High,Winchester High and 3 other schools in Mass, as well as in other top school districts in the country. I think that says something about just how good these schools are, that it’s worth it for kids to move away from their families to attend them.</p>
<p>There are, of course, students who live in all these districts who choose to go to PA etc despite having a public school that most people would rightfully be thrilled with.</p>
<p>Princess’Dad- Yes, there is a HUGE difference between the great suburban Boston schools and the schools in the part of the state where I live, trust me. There was a student poster (Rad in Plaid?) who described it pretty well at one point.</p>
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<p>If this is what you are seeking, then you are doing the right thing.</p>
<p>I’ve been a frequent critic on this and other similar threads of the purpose of BS being admission to the top college. I’ve been a a critic of the goal (admission to a top college) because that may or may not be the best place for the child - and I’ve been a critic of the method (the pursuit of the name brand school because of the name brand). </p>
<p>Hopefully the thing he will find at boarding school is himself which we as parents often forget. A child is not a series of academic courses taken, nor a GPA and test score or even a member on a sports team. He may very well come in as all of these. We as parents have steered him in this direction based upon our observations of what he needs to do, does well, and has fun doing. At BS, we are more removed from the operation, allowing the child to start being responsible for identifying those things - the things that have to get done and the things that you choose to identify yourself with - no parental input. Once he finds himself in this way, moving forward with that is easy. </p>
<p>Boardings school should not be traated a means to an end, but a destination in and of itself. The fact that it may produce other desireable outcomes (like college admissions) is entirely welcome, but not necessarily controllable whether or not we choose to think so.</p>
<p>
P’Dad, what “top” PS was that? One with a 1.7% HYPS matriculation rate for the past 4 years? Note not that I think the school becomes a “bad” school because of the percentage I quoted. It’s just that you have been using this school as a benchmark of BS to compare with your public school on course offerings, extracurricular and yes - college matriculation all this time. I try to be open minded and am glad on some of the recent threads we are having some “non-partisan” discussions, but I find your postings confusing and self-serving with a lot of twisting on facts and details.</p>
<p>On state - low or high…</p>
<p>Why does it matter? I know of kids who do horribly at Exeter and some that do well. Kids that do amazing in crummy public schools and others destined for a lifetime of failure. One need only to look at alumni magazines to note that not everyone is running a major corporation (or third world country) So what does it matter if a school has top matriculation and others don’t. You’re missing the point that Princessdad is trying to make.</p>
<p>TO many parents are looking for something in a school that may not exist. Or at least not for their kid. A school with a low IVY matriculation may be doing its students more of a service by counseling them about the myriad of equally good alternatives. My husband went to a non-IVY school and their non-IVY med school and he’s smarter than me, frankly.</p>
<p>My sister went to a local school and still matriculated to MIT. Was also accepted by Princeton and Yale.</p>
<p>If you are writing a check for boarding school, using matriculation numbers that don’t tell you everything (for instance are ANY of the kids in that pool like your child? Are they legacies? Foreign, Midwestern, girls, URM’s, etc.) than it’s a crap shoot frankly. </p>
<p>Many of us are boarding school alum and I can tell you that we got a top notch education, and getting into an IVY wasn’t part of the equation. It became party of my “working vocabulary” but that didn’t mean that CalTech or Perdue or many other schools were not.</p>
<p>Matriculation numbers are meant to impress people who need to be given false hope. And the old days of being “impressed” by the name on a school have been replaced by the significant increase in magnet and public schools that are competitive and have more well rounded students. They have marching bands, and robotic teams and do national debate tournaments and . . . … It might be cheaper to look at Newsweek’s top 100 list and move to that location, than to spend $45,000 a year for four years of boarding school.</p>
<p>Want to go to MIT - then move to Virginia and enroll in Jefferson High which is a “best practice” school that had kids admitted in the double digits.</p>
<p>I’m recommending Boarding school to my local peers because I’m tired of the flavor of the month superintendents, the constant recreation of curriculums, and – most recently, the decision of the state to eliminate summer enrichment programs as well as the after school buses for academic EC’s like debate and Junior Classical League.</p>
<p>I want consistency, I want to avoid the snobby old money values of the local privates, and my daughter wanted to test her wings. So it’s worth the sacrifice to send her. </p>
<p>But I worry about parents who keep grasping at the BS is Better “straw” to justify the decision to go.</p>
<p>Will your child be qualified academically - maybe - depends on the kids and the grades. Will they get into a top school? The numbers suggest that no matter where you go - even if the matriculation stats are higher than others - your specific kid might not be in any of those pools.</p>
<p>And if that’s the goal - remember, there is no guarantee and no refunds on tuition.</p>
<p>Go for the academic experience, the personal growth, and the amazing international network of friends. </p>
<p>Happy, fulfilled students will be that way no matter what college they attend. Again - it’s the ones that are bent on IVY’s and have no other perspective that I tend to vote “no” on. I want to see the person - not the boarding school, prepackaged, manifestation of one. A boarding school doesn’t make the kid. It only enhances what the kid already has.</p>
<p>Amen, Exie!!!</p>