Does prestige of undergraduate school matter in Engineering?

College Majors Engineering Majors
61

<p>
[quote]
And what if you go to UT and then find out that you actually don't like engineering at all (or that you do poorly in it)? I've said it before and I'll say it again, most freshmen who enter engineering programs will not actually finish them, and even of those that do, many of them that do will choose not to work as engineers.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Are you suggesting to this student that he study something he doesn't like just because he'll be at Harvard? By going to Harvard, you're taking away the opportunity of even exploring petroleum or chemical engineering. He will never know if it would work out or not.</p>

<p>It's really not all that different than going to UT and not having the opportunity to go into investment banking. The situation is just reversed.</p>

62

<p>
[quote]
Are you suggesting to this student that he study something he doesn't like just because he'll be at Harvard? By going to Harvard, you're taking away the opportunity of even exploring petroleum or chemical engineering. He will never know if it would work out or not.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Look, every move you make in life will potentially open some doors while closing others. The question then is what are you likely going to end up wanting to do later in your life? Not just immediately after you graduate, but years later down the line. </p>

<p>Like I said, I know many engineers who got tired of the game and decided that they want to do something else. That's why so many engineers end up going to business school with the specific intention of changing careers to something else. I've never heard of a venture capitalist or Ibanker deciding that he'd rather become an engineer. Put another way, there are almost certainly more engineers in the world who would rather become venture capitalists than there are venture capitalists that want to become engineers. Heck, the latter is probably around zero.</p>

<p>Don't get me wrong. I don't think this is the way the world should be. I think that engineers are vastly underpaid. I think that engineers don't get the social respect they deserve. I also happen to think that venture capitalists are vastly overpaid and have far more social prestige than they deserve. But what can I say? I didn't make the rules. All I can do is tell you what the rules are. As that UT guy once told me, once you see the kind of money that VC makes, and, frankly, for not having to work all that hard, then why would you ever think of working as an engineer ever again?</p>

63

<p>UT does have an amazing business school! so you could just change majors...</p>

<p>...yes... i understand your choice of school was arbitrary, but i just thought i would mention that.</p>

64

<p>
[quote]
UT does have an amazing business school! so you could just change majors...

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Sure, but if you were going to go into business, then why not just go to Harvard and major in economics? I think we can agree that Harvard has better connections into the business world than even the McCombs School does.</p>

65

<p>"Like I said, I know many engineers who got tired of the game and decided that they want to do something else. That's why so many engineers end up going to business school with the specific intention of changing careers to something else. I've never heard of a venture capitalist or Ibanker deciding that he'd rather become an engineer. Put another way, there are almost certainly more engineers in the world who would rather become venture capitalists than there are venture capitalists that want to become engineers. Heck, the latter is probably around zero."</p>

<p>-I actually do know Ibankers who think it's crap and wants to become engineers, if they had the chance to do it all over again. I think the reason that so many engineers pursue MBA and then later switch to consulting/ibanking is that they can and because of the allure of the higher salary potential. </p>

<p>But...If you are a Ibanker, and you want to become an engineer, </p>

<ol>
<li>You need a BS in Engineering. (Althought there are many who are, most bankers are not engineering majors)</li>
<li>Unless you have relevant experience in engineering, you start at 60K. You'd be taking a very significant pay cut. On the other hand, if I'm an engineer and wants to be in finance, I can get an MBA and be at the same starting point as most ibankers.</li>
</ol>

66

<p>
[quote]
By going to Harvard, you're taking away the opportunity of even exploring petroleum or chemical engineering. He will never know if it would work out or not.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>In the case of chemical engineering, one simple solution would be to go to Harvard and major in Engineering Sciences and then just cross-reg at MIT to backfill whatever specific chemical engineering courses you think you need. Granted, it's obviously not as natural as just going to MIT in the first place, but like I said, not everybody at Harvard can get into MIT.</p>

67

<p>Go to a good name Engineering school, get good grades and your set. I do not think Ivy league schools will carry a lot of weight here and may be a negative.</p>

68

<p>
[quote]
-I actually do know Ibankers who think it's crap and wants to become engineers, if they had the chance to do it all over again. I think the reason that so many engineers pursue MBA and then later switch to consulting/ibanking is that they can and because of the allure of the higher salary potential.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Your second sentence contradicts your first sentence. The real question is, why doesn't engineering have the kind of salary potential allure that consulting/banking does? Ibankers who may think their job is crap and think they want to become engineers end up thinking twice because they know the pay would be far lower. </p>

<p>
[quote]
But...If you are a Ibanker, and you want to become an engineer,</p>

<ol>
<li>You need a BS in Engineering. (Althought there are many who are, most bankers are not engineering majors)

[/quote]
</li>
</ol>

<p>No you don't. You may need some degree in engineering, although in some fields (i.e. software), it is debatable whether you really need any degree at all. </p>

<p>But in any case, if you need some engineering degree, fine, then you can get a master's in it. I know a lot of MIT engineering master's students who didn't have engineering undergrad degrees, although generally speaking, they do have some sort of science or math undergrad degree. And that's MIT. You don't need to go to a school that is of the caliber of MIT. If you're good enough to get an Ibanking job, then it shouldn't be that hard to get into a master's grad eng program at some no-name school. </p>

<p>
[quote]
2. Unless you have relevant experience in engineering, you start at 60K. You'd be taking a very significant pay cut. On the other hand, if I'm an engineer and wants to be in finance, I can get an MBA and be at the same starting point as most ibankers.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>And right there you've pointed out the main reason why bankers don't decide to become engineers. It would be a big step down in pay. {Which then begs the question of why exactly are engineers paid so much less than bankers are, for the same experience level? But that's a question for another time.} </p>

<p>I also agree that, by getting an elite MBA, you would indeed be at the same level of those bankers. But that just speaks to my very point - why not circumvent that step by just entering banking directly after undergrad? However, naturally, to do that, you would want to go to a school that maximizes your chances of doing so. Harvard is clearly a prime school for getting such jobs immediately afterwards.</p>

69

<p>sakky, what college did you go to?</p>

70

<p>
[quote]
Go to a good name Engineering school, get good grades

[/quote]
</p>

<p>I wish it was that easy. However, I think we all know some engineering students who got terrible grades, including some who actually flunked out. I can certainly think of quite a few. I am quite sure that they would have all preferred to have gone to an Ivy, for at least there, they would have graduated. </p>

<p>{Seriously, if self-admitted complete lazy-asses like George Bush and John Kerry somehow successfully managed to graduate from Yale, it's clearly not that hard. You may not get good grades, but at least you'll graduate. The trick, of course, is to get in. But once you're in, it's gravy.}</p>

71

<p>
[quote]
sakky, what college did you go to?

[/quote]
</p>

<p>I don't think it matters, although you could probably deduce it from my posts. </p>

<p>Suffice it to say that it was a very painful engineering program, in which I saw a lot of my friends fall.</p>

72

<p>Stanford maybe? Great school. Wonder if it's popular in Europe.</p>

73

<p>sakky, do you believe anyone ever takes a job for less pay but increased job satisfaction?</p>

74

<p>I think Sakky is alluding to the fact that the difference in pay between engineering as a pure profession and business jobs isn't small, its astronomical.</p>

75

<p>I wouldn't do a job I disliked regardless of the money. Whether we like it or not, our jobs are significant parts of our lives. I'd get depressed if I spend 10 hours a day every day not enjoying the work I do.</p>

76

<p>I know two things in life: i am my mother's son, and that i should never get into an internet debate with sakky, but here it is:</p>

<p>Quote:
-I actually do know Ibankers who think it's crap and wants to become engineers, if they had the chance to do it all over again. I think the reason that so many engineers pursue MBA and then later switch to consulting/ibanking is that they can and because of the allure of the higher salary potential. </p>

<p>Your second sentence contradicts your first sentence. The real question is, why doesn't engineering have the kind of salary potential allure that consulting/banking does? Ibankers who may think their job is crap and think they want to become engineers end up thinking twice because they know the pay would be far lower. </p>

<p>My two sentences do not contradict, and I don't really know where you got that idea from. My only explanation for why you would think they contradict is that you think a job's salary is the only factor in making career decisions. People's priorities change all the time. What they think is important in their 20s may be less important in their 30s. Is 40 hours a week MORE in IB worth the extra salary potential? to me it is. </p>

<p>But, it's not hard to see why someone in their 30s with an established home life and young children, would want the less hours and less stress of most engineering jobs.--> Which pays for, with all things considered, a comfortable upper middle class lifestyle. I'm sure you would agree with me that MONEY IS NOT THE SINGLE MOST IMPORTANT THING IN LIFE.</p>

77

<p>hey,
I actually chose Harvard over MIT and I don't regret my choice at all.
I'd have to say its up to the individual student. If u love math/engineering then a big engineering school is for you, but I am more like a liberal arts engineer.</p>

78

<p>Many I bankers, venture capitalists, and other finance people now are in the position of hoping they can get SOME job, ANY job, to pay their bills. With their firms out of business, merged, laying off, they are unemployable as finance people. </p>

<p>Many of those jobs are gone forever with consolidation, not coming back. I suspect there will be lots of former finance types heading for graduate school trying to retrain in some career that continues to hold value. You cannot get rich working as an engineer, unlike finance, but they will still be building bridges even in a depression.</p>

<p>
[quote]
I wouldn't do a job I disliked regardless of the money. Whether we like it or not, our jobs are significant parts of our lives. I'd get depressed if I spend 10 hours a day every day not enjoying the work I do.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>See above. Most people work because they need the money. If they like their jobs, that is a nice bonus, but largely beside the point. There are lots of employed depressed people. There are also lots of unemployed depressed people. Who is better off?</p>

<p>Here I agree with Sakky, at least if you go to an Ivy that can produce a conventional engineering degree. You get the option of staying in the program and getting that degree if the reality of engineering suits you, and you can do the work. If you change your mind, or have it changed for you, just major in something else. At many of the top engineering programs, particularly the state universities, you are admitted to the engineering program specifically, and if you decide it is not for you, changing majors is much less simple. </p>

<p>Now if you are fairly sure you want to be an engineer, and you are in the upper reaches academically (say you would have breezed into HYPSMC), then you are much more likely to actually graduate with your engineering degree, so the flunk out risk is low. For example, in spite of its rigor, MIT has a very high graduation rate, with almost everyone getting degrees in engineering, math, science or a highly technical version of economics. If you are one of these, then consider whether the relatively restricted engineering options at the Ivies with smaller programs fits you. </p>

<p>This raises a question I have seen discussed here before, but I am interested in other opinions. How good is a general engineering degree if you actually want a job as an engineer? Do employers take you seriously? Or do they insist on electrical, mechanical, civil, etc. depending on the job they are trying to fill? How would someone from a prestigious college that offered a general engineering degree, but not specialization do against someone from a traditional engineering mega house (Berkeley, Texas, Illinois...) with a specialized degree? How about an Ivy grad who managed to get in just enough for a "general" degree EE vs someone with a degree in, say, EE specializing in physical electronics from one of the giant state programs? Any engineers with opinions?</p>

79

<p>
[quote]
See above. Most people work because they need the money. If they like their jobs, that is a nice bonus, but largely beside the point. There are lots of employed depressed people. There are also lots of unemployed depressed people. Who is better off?

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Of course you'd rather be employed and depressed, but here we are operating under the assumption that we either have a job we like or have a job we don't like. In either case, the salary is enough to live comfortably. In this scenario, there's no reason I can't be both employed and happy.</p>

80

<p>
[quote]
Now if you are fairly sure you want to be an engineer, and you are in the upper reaches academically (say you would have breezed into HYPSMC), then you are much more likely to actually graduate with your engineering degree, so the flunk out risk is low. For example, in spite of its rigor, MIT has a very high graduation rate, with almost everyone getting degrees in engineering, math, science or a highly technical version of economics. If you are one of these, then consider whether the relatively restricted engineering options at the Ivies with smaller programs fits you.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>That's because MIT is so difficult to get into that those who get in are the type of people who could graduate from any school.</p>