Does prestige of undergraduate school matter in Engineering?

College Majors Engineering Majors
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Of course you'd rather be employed and depressed, but here we are operating under the assumption that we either have a job we like or have a job we don't like. In either case, the salary is enough to live comfortably. In this scenario, there's no reason I can't be both employed and happy.

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<p>Is there no middle ground here? Not many people have jobs they would rather go to than do other things. I'd say as long as you don't dislike going to work you are in good shape. You should enjoy parts of your job but you don't have to enjoy everything.</p>

82

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Is there no middle ground here? Not many people have jobs they would rather go to than do other things. I'd say as long as you don't dislike going to work you are in good shape. You should enjoy parts of your job but you don't have to enjoy everything.

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<p>No, I agree. In the context of work, when I say happy, I do mean "not disliking."</p>

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<p>At the risk of wandering further off topic, I would suggest that few people have jobs they enjoy, with the definition being "would do it for free". Many, perhaps most in the US, have jobs that are good enough that they would not change unless it offered more pay, shorter commute, greater security, etc. I.e. something other than more satisfaction with work.</p>

<p>Note that one can dislike a job pretty intensely and still view it as answering the necessities-your paycheck does not bounce, you can pay your mortgage, you have health insurance, etc. </p>

<p>You may think it is boring, irritating, largely pointless, and run by malignant idiots. You may start counting the minutes to quitting time on Friday when you leave home on Monday. You may ask yourself a dozen times a day "Dear GOD what happened to my life?" But you have a roof over your head and food on the table, so you are not quitting. </p>

<p>But back to my question: Is a less specialized engineering degree, such as those offered by the smaller programs, as marketable as the highly specialized degrees available from the mega engineering powerhouses?</p>

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<p>We should start a new thread on our off topic discussion, it's quite interesting =)</p>

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But back to my question: Is a less specialized engineering degree, such as those offered by the smaller programs, as marketable as the highly specialized degrees available from the mega engineering powerhouses?

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<p>You'll have to be more specific in your question. A more specialized degree is just that, more specialized. Degrees like civil, mechanical, and electrical often offer areas of specialization within them but in general are broad. Marketability depends on a lot of things. The job the engineer will be doing, the person's gpa (assuming they are just out of college of course), the school, and the person! However, there are jobs that an aerospace engineer can do that a mechanical engineer really can't do. But should that ME want to go into aerospace they always have the option to do their masters...</p>

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<p>Not being an engineer, I am not sure I can be much more specific than my earlier post. </p>

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[quote}How good is a general engineering degree if you actually want a job as an engineer? Do employers take you seriously? Or do they insist on electrical, mechanical, civil, etc. depending on the job they are trying to fill? How would someone from a prestigious college that offered a general engineering degree, but not specialization do against someone from a traditional engineering mega house (Berkeley, Texas, Illinois...) with a specialized degree? How about an Ivy grad who managed to get in just enough for a "general" degree EE vs someone with a degree in, say, EE specializing in physical electronics from one of the giant state programs? Any engineers with opinions?
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<p>How many jobs are there for general engineers vs mechanical, civil, electrical, etc? Within the specialties, is a higher level of specialization better? Does a general EE grad compete successfully for a circuit design job with someone who has come out of a giant program and has lots of experience, for a BS graduate, in that area?</p>

86

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How many jobs are there for general engineers vs mechanical, civil, electrical, etc? Within the specialties, is a higher level of specialization better? Does a general EE grad compete successfully for a circuit design job with someone who has come out of a giant program and has lots of experience, for a BS graduate, in that area?

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<p>Specialization narrows down the number of jobs you can apply for, but it should increase your chances of being able to get those jobs that require specialization. Most of the companies at career fairs I've seen hiring all types of engineers either have a true need for all types (aerospace, automotive, companies like GE) or aren't actually hiring you for engineering and just want a smart person.</p>

<p>Personally, if I was hiring someone to help operate a steel mill I'd much rather take someone with a background in metallurgy, materials science, or chemical engineering than some ambiguous "general engineering" program where, for all I know, they took all their classes in programming and circuit design.</p>

87

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Specialization narrows down the number of jobs you can apply for, but it should increase your chances of being able to get those jobs that require specialization. Most of the companies at career fairs I've seen hiring all types of engineers either have a true need for all types (aerospace, automotive, companies like GE) or aren't actually hiring you for engineering and just want a smart person.

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<p>Actually Racin depending on how specialized you are going and what not it can actually open MORE doors for you than being generalized. Then again he was comparing a degree in "Engineering" to do doing ME, EE, etc which is not very specialized at all. When I think of a specialized engineer I think of aerospace, structural, and those that branch off of the main disciplines of ME, EE, Civil E, etc.</p>

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<p>Yeah, I agree some specialized degrees will open up more doors than they close, but I think in general that's not really very true. I mean, are there any PhDs that actually have more jobs they can apply to after finishing than they could have applied to with their BS?</p>

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<p>A PhD can teach at college which is what many people get their PhD's to do. A PhD is also open to many more R&D positions that a BS (without many years of experience) would never touch. Things that come to mind are designing CPU components at Intel or AMD or working for NASA.</p>

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<p>Maybe somebody from Mudd could chime in about this. They only offer a general engineering degree. I think I remember aibarr saying she had a hard time trying to get her company to recruit there because of that.</p>

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Maybe somebody from Mudd could chime in about this.

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<p>It was Aibar's comment that got me thinking about this. I assume that, due to their size, the big programs graduate the vast majority of engineers in the country. This would mean that most people with hiring responsibility came out of large programs that offered quite a bit of specialization, because they could. So the person hiring thinks in terms of ME, EE, civil, aerospace, and perhaps specialized within that. Do they understand what a general degree is? Would that mean something to them about what the individual can do? If they were hiring for desirable jobs, and they had plenty of applications from the flagship state universities with exactly the special expertise they needed, would they even bother to find out what went into a general degree?</p>

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<p>Maybe the reason why engineers may tend to move towards higher paying jobs outside of engineering is simply because they CAN. We have only explored the possibility that a person may love engineering but would rather "be depressed" at another job, say I-banking, for the higher pay. I think the reality may be that the person likes neither engineering nor I-banking (and doesn't mind the hella extra hours), and goes for the I-banking degree. Or maybe even that he feels that the higher pay more than makes up for the more depressing work...?</p>

<p>In general, I don't see how anyone can be happy for a lifetime at ANY job. There's no meaning to having a job... its simply something you have to do to make money. Some jobs will appeal to you more than others, bu nothing is better than no job whatsoever (not unemployed, but rather self-employed, etc.). And that may be what sucks about engineering... it is almost entirely job oriented. Of course, this doesn't make i-banking or finance much better either, but hey at least you get paid more to do it.</p>

<p>I always thought that two of my relatives were rather odd individuals because nobody has ever been able to convince them to get a job. One of them has had a struggling business for a number of years now... he barely makes ends meet, but won't even consider getting a job (which he knows will pay him more). The other is worse... he had a semi-successful business, which due to some unexpected issues failed. This was related to hardware/software engineering. The guy has enough experience and knowledge to get a good job in software engineering. Instead, he is trying his hand at establishing a local transportation service, which will probably never make him much more than 30-40k, if that!</p>

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In general, I don't see how anyone can be happy for a lifetime at ANY job. There's no meaning to having a job... its simply something you have to do to make money. Some jobs will appeal to you more than others, bu nothing is better than no job whatsoever (not unemployed, but rather self-employed, etc.). And that may be what sucks about engineering... it is almost entirely job oriented. Of course, this doesn't make i-banking or finance much better either, but hey at least you get paid more to do it.

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<p>This is where I need to disagree. All jobs have meaning or else you wouldn't be getting paid to do it. If you don't care about the meaning of your job well that's your problem and you should maybe move somewhere else. Engineering in particular can be very meaningful work.</p>

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<p>I have to disagree somewhat as well. It's definitely possible for your job to have meaning to you, besides the salary you get. I get a sense of pride everytime I read a news article about the last project I worked on. I'm happy to know I helped construct a building that's of such quality that people are willing to pay $70M for an apartment. That's the kind of stuff that motivates me at work... the feeling of success and accomplishment at the end.</p>

<p>Don't you get the same feeling sometimes when you finish a major project for a class?</p>

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<p>It is certainly possible for a job to be important to someone for the substance of the work, not just its contribution to subsistence. However, that is a secondary consideration. That is why they pay people to do jobs, because they would not do them otherwise. My job is good enough, better suited to me than are most occupations. However, if suddenly I had the money I would not even bother to quit tomorrow, just not show up and let them figure it out.</p>

<p>For those who find their careers deeply rewarding, I am happy for them. But I do not think it is very realistic to expect this from a job.</p>

96

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Engineering in particular can be very meaningful work.

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I really and honestly do hope that it is so. It is nice to know that you feel this way.</p>

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Don't you get the same feeling sometimes when you finish a major project for a class?

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I definitely do. It is an extremely fulfilling feeling. However, the only thing that tops this is the feeling of accomplishing something that you set down for yourself. Not a project assigned for a grade by a professor, or a design project at work... but something that you yourself were motivated to create, and succeeded. I think thats probably the best feeling ever.</p>

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All jobs have meaning or else you wouldn't be getting paid to do it.

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I sorta feel its the opposite. You get paid because you may not do the job otherwise. I think it can get hard to work on somebody else's project, which is what a job is. Correct me if I'm wrong.</p>

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Engineering in particular can be very meaningful work.

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I agree and this is why I'm majoring in it. If there's one career that has the most potential to affect the whole world, its engineering. But there are many many jobs in engineering that I don't feel are meaningful. At least, they don't seem meaningful... I've never actually held them (just a student for now).</p>

<p>I know its not fair to compare a discussion centered around the "average" with the outstanding, but do you think Isaac Newton formulated the laws of motion and gravitation because he was paid to do it? Was Einstein a highly paid individual? Von Neumann? Euclid? Shakespeare? Was even Bill Gates paid to create Microsoft? I think the work that each of these people did was probably the most rewarding thing possible, financially or otherwise.</p>

<p>This isn't anything against engineering though... anyone is free to do the above if they want to. Its a tough path, and most who traverse it probably fail and nobody ever even hears about it. I simply feel that while engineering can be meaningful work it is not of the same magnitude as some other things one can do. What you are most justified in doing is what you would do even if you 1) weren't paid to do it, 2) had to lose social life for, 3) and had to sacrifice your time and probably most of your life for. Very few people would be THAT motivated about anything whatsoever.</p>

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For those who find their careers deeply rewarding, I am happy for them. But I do not think it is very realistic to expect this from a job.

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<p>This is exactly what I mean. A job just can't get you there.</p>

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<p>Why would you have to want to do your job for free for you to enjoy it? I like to do volunteer work now and then for various things, but there's no way I'd ever do most of that stuff full time, even if I was getting paid!</p>

<p>Also, didn't Shakespeare have a patron, as did many other artists at the time (and previous times)? While there are definitely people that can create fantastic ideas in a vacuum, what of the people at places like NASA (well...40 years ago), Bell Labs, the old steel labs where tons of basic science was performed?</p>

<p>Also, would you trust ken's company if they didn't charge for their services? ;)</p>

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Do they understand what a general degree is? Would that mean something to them about what the individual can do? If they were hiring for desirable jobs, and they had plenty of applications from the flagship state universities with exactly the special expertise they needed, would they even bother to find out what went into a general degree?

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<p>That's the thing. I think at a lot of those universities, there might <em>be</em> a general engineering degree, but it's some watered-down survey-course based curriculum, and nobody at the flagships paid it any attention. Luckily, students from Harvey Mudd get plenty of attention at plenty of firms, and if they work for a couple of years at ridiculously-good-company-that-knows-about-Mudd, then that'll help them land a gig at company-they-really-wanted-to-work-for-that-didn't-know-about-Mudd. Or, it'll help them get into a powerhouse grad school, at which point those firms who only know about powerhouses will sit up and take notice.</p>

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For those who find their careers deeply rewarding, I am happy for them. But I do not think it is very realistic to expect this from a job.

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<p>Well, why not? There are plenty of jobs out there that'll get you money, and there are plenty of people out there that find their careers deeply rewarding. Why would you spend all day for the majority of your life (seeing as how you only have one shot at doing something for the majority of your life) doing something you didn't find rewarding? Is your Lexus going to make up for the hollowness that you feel at doing something meaningless all day, every day?</p>

<p>I find satisfaction in my job. I'm not sure I'll stick with this job, or this career path, forever. I want kids eventually, and the day-to-day stress of contractors and deadlines and 60- to 70-hour weeks is more than I care to deal with when I have toddlers tugging at my skirts and screaming for mommy. This is a good time in my life for those long hours and high-pressure situations, but it's not going to work forever.</p>

<p>But there's definitely deep satisfaction in what I do. I mean, I'm building a frikkin' hospital for high-risk pregnancies. It's hard not to internalize something like that. (It also makes it easier to do overtime-- if I don't work this weekend I'm killing babies omg.)</p>

<p>I think you can and <em>should</em> pursue a career that gives you great satisfaction. It doesn't have to be something incredibly humanitarian as saving starving children, but it should be something you enjoy, and it should at least partially give meaning to your life, since you're going to be spending so much time on it.</p>

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Why would you have to want to do your job for free for you to enjoy it?

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<p>And heck yes, I wouldn't do this for free. Just because it's a worthy endeavor doesn't mean I don't thoroughly enjoy the salary. Cough it up, boss!</p>

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While there are definitely people that can create fantastic ideas in a vacuum, what of the people at places like NASA (well...40 years ago), Bell Labs, the old steel labs where tons of basic science was performed?

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I think these places would be incredibly satisfying places to work at. I group them in the same category as those people who created fantastic ideas in a vacuum.</p>

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Also, would you trust ken's company if they didn't charge for their services?

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Well... that depends on what ken's company is about. I trust Google with all my searches, though I've never paid them anything for it.</p>

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Why would you have to want to do your job for free for you to enjoy it?

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Its just a measure of how much your job means to you. If you did it for free then you'd have a hard time paying the bills. It should be "as if" you'd work for your job for free... ie: if you were somehow really really rich (won the lottery or something), would you still do this job, or something else? Chances are you'd invest your time into something more meaningful. It could just be doing the same exact thing (building buildings, for instance) but on your own, maybe through your own firm. That HAS to be way more satisfying than working at a job. Thats my only point.</p>

<p>I realize that not everyone can do this and a job is generally the next best thing that you CAN do... so its pretty much just a necessary evil.</p>