Does race really make a huge difference to admissions?

<p>People compare AA to adding points on the 1600 scale. What if a URM had a 1550, where would these fictional points go?</p>

<p>"I also suspect that it doesn't help to be male when applying to MIT."</p>

<p>True -- unless one is a URM because there are few URMs of either gender with the math/science skills and background to be able to thrive at a place like MIT. The same is true of other engineering/tech schools.</p>

<p>To balance things out, however, males of any race have an advantage when applying to LACs and to nursing and education schools and programs. That's because relatively few qualified males want to go to LACs or be nurses or teachers. Males with a sincere, documented interest in the humanities also are at an advantage.</p>

<p>"Lets suppose a college will admit everyone with over a 2100.</p>

<p>Native Americans +250
Blacks/Hispanics +200
Other URMs +150
Jewish +50
White +0
East Asian -100"</p>

<p>Are you kidding?
Jewish +50?
If anything... Jews are discriminated against because THEY are overrepresented in colleges.</p>

<p>My Sat score is like 100 points higher than a friend of mine's. With that scale, my score is 100 points lower than his.</p>

<p>"Are you kidding?
Jewish +50?
If anything... Jews are discriminated against because THEY are overrepresented in colleges."</p>

<p>I was thinking the same thing.</p>

<p>and also i don't believe reverse-affirmative-action aganst asians exists, in fact it would be illegal, and even if it does happen you could just choose not to report it, i only think it'll help you if your under-represented.</p>

<p>there isnt reverse discrimination, cmon people. and there isnt a quantitative amount you get to an sat score, etc. Affirmative action is NOT free points. By simply being latino (to be an underrepresented minority, you need to be 25% or more just so you know) you dont prove anything. If you are latino and have actually done something, like I've had to overcome some resentment and such, I can explain to an adcom all about it if they want. If someone else goes into that same adcom and is like, yeah im latin so what, and doesn't show that it meant anything to them, its not as big a factor. So please people, stop making numerical judgments, i dont think you know the exact stats anyway. EC's matter a lot more, as do essays and interviews and whatnot. You aren't getting into college on race alone.</p>

<p>This thread always pops up because someone always wants to find a fancy of way saying they don't think it's fair that many minorities are getting into college. And then Asians complain about how they themselves have a disadvantage in admissions when really they are just bitter they didn't get into the college they wanted.
Stop trying to make up reasons. No matter how hard you try to hide it, questioning the validity of a minority getting into college is racist.</p>

<p>trackbabi, you rock :)
on another note, what if you are a URM leader?...like, I have been president of my hispanic alliance for two years, I mentor hispanic kids, and my friend and are starting a program for hispanic families in our area. we want to have meetings in spanish to let parents and students know about all the opportunities they have, and we also plan to explain the entire college application/financial aid process. Oh, also, I go to a governor's school (tjhsst) and they only provide their pamphlet in english, so we're taking it upon ourselves to write one in spanish. many people get angry and they say I only got into the school because of my ethnicity, and they're already getting angry that I will probably get into the college they want to go to, but a lot of us actually work hard and deserve to go to these schools. if you're angry about not getting into a college, why don't you go live in a shack for a week and see how you like it.</p>

<p>There certainly are colleges that discriminate on the basis of race. This is a fact. It doesn't mean a particular person made it into the college 'only' because of their race but there's no question that some colleges do essentially award 'points' for being a member of an URM race.</p>

<p>Note that the UC/CalState system doesn't do this and has taken flak because of it. I agree with the concept of not discriminating based on race.</p>

<p>If that chart really is true then Im a shoe in at Notre Dame
URM plus legacy w/ decent SAT score</p>

<p>thanx for the support, Latinac2. It is also a shame to see people even asking if they will have a chance at being admitted because they are a minority. How can you sell yourself, and your race, so short by asking such a question?</p>

<p>latinac2 and trackbabi17, thank you for saying what ive tried to dance around for the sake of not punching someone in the face.</p>

<p>ucsd dad, please (which you may or may not have, but im making sure) look at the facts of the michigan AA case. they awarded points to minorities and it was deemed unconstitutional. there is no way of quantifying being a URM, and people who have had hardship thrown their way or have taken it upon themselves to be a leader of a certain culture will have a much better shot at a college when compared with someone with similar stats, thats also a fact. think of it as an extra EC. if you have to spend time going to the library due to being first gen and self-studying because you can't afford a tutor, that shows a lot more commitment and more appreciation for learning than the average kid that gets good grades and can ask his parents for help whenever he needs it. there are two different worlds, whether you like it or not. AA is trying to link the two of them together. please try and recognize the concept over the method.</p>

<p>
[quote]
This thread always pops up because someone always wants to find a fancy of way saying they don't think it's fair that many minorities are getting into college. And then Asians complain about how they themselves have a disadvantage in admissions when really they are just bitter they didn't get into the college they wanted.
Stop trying to make up reasons. No matter how hard you try to hide it, questioning the validity of a minority getting into college is racist.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>EXCUSE ME? NOT questioning the validity of a minority, or any ethnic group getting into college IS racist. I don't like/agree/even believe that being a certain race(in itself) changes the chances of you going to college. Rather, the situations of being a certain race ARE what influence what get you into college because they can and usually do end up defining who you are. What IS racist is to assert that everyone from a specific ethnic group will encounter the situations most commonly associated with their race...which is what I believe you were just doing.</p>

<p>I like the point you made, courtjester. many of these URMs people say got into college because of their race are the first gen. to attend college. They did not have parents to encourage and help them with their education. It shows commitment that they have been able to rise above their peers and realize their potential. That's what makes them more special than other applicants.
For children of immigrant parents, many have parents who do not know what the SATs even are. Or they do not have money to spare to hire a tutor or to send their child to some National Science Fair or whatever. Like latianc2 pointed out many can't even speak English.
College admissions officers are not stupid. They see more than a SAT score when reviewing an application
And kE-, I believe you failed to read the posts that latinac2, courtjestr, and I have made. If you believe that we all do not encounter the same hardships, not that I ever implied that, than why do you question our getting into a college. Won't that mean that maybe our application was as good as everyone elses's? Perhaps what you and others need to realize is that we deserve our acceptances</p>

<p>And you did not read my post. Every person has every right to question the admission of a minority or a majority into college. If you didn't have to defend your admission the college you got into, why would they have had any reason to admit you in the first place? Questioning is not inherently racist. I do not question your getting into a college. In fact, I agree that your application was as good as everyone else's application and that is why you got in. It is not because of your race. Your race MAY influence the activities you do which in turn influence the college you get into, but the two are not directly linked.</p>

<p>court:</p>

<p>My post was regarding a bias given to a person based strictly on their race. Some colleges do certainly do this and it's important for those URMs to know this is they want to take advantage of that bias in those colleges. To say otherwise would be inaccurate. I don't equate race directly to socio-economic group since it's invalid and actually tends to be racist. </p>

<p>I agree that a person who has overcome many odds due to having to take care of a family, work to support a family, etc. should be given consideration for overcoming these odds, they could be considered strong ECs, but I'm saying that this isn't directly tied to race as many presume. </p>

<p>Take a look at the demographics of the top UCs in California before and after the elimination of racial bias. You'll see a large change (many more Asians, fewer whites and blacks) in the demographics. This happened due to no longer giving a racial preference and trying to make the demographic of the Uni match some pre-defined formulaic demographic. It's clear that many colleges (not all, as I mentioned) use racial bias in admissions.</p>

<p>I know some people are in favor of racial discrimination but I'm not. If there are concerns about low numbers of qualified applicants of a certain race (and there should be concerns), the answer is to determine why the numbers are low and fix the problem which must be done well before the college applicant point.</p>

<p>But, I think I'm veering from the point of this thread. Again, it's important that some URMs realize that some colleges essentially will give them a boost in admissions due to their race and some others won't. It may impact financial packages they can receive (or not). These facts might affect where they want to attend.</p>

<p>i agree with the fact that we need to determine why numbers are low and fix that problem, but i believe we should also admit students who deserve to get into college because they have worked so hard. it's not fair to them to not give them a chance because a child can't determine where they live, who their parents are, or how much money is available for tutoring etc. i think it is ridiculous how a student/parent may complain about affirmative action when they were born with a silver spoon in their mouth!!!</p>

<p>latin:</p>

<p>You'll see that I agree with you regarding the achievements made by one despite socio-economic odds against them - I just wasn't tying it strictly to race since the two are different attributes. </p>

<p>More to your point - student A (priviledged) achieved a particular level but had the benefit of not having to work, living in a supportive environment, had the benefit of tutors, etc., while student B (unpriviledged) achieved that same level or perhaps slightly below it but had the downside of having to work 30 hours per week to help support the family, lived in a non-supportive environment (no father, no parental emphasis on studies, etc.), and had no benefit of tutors, etc. Given this scenario, assuming student B is at a base acceptable level for the rigors of the particular college, they may actuall y be 'more' qualified than student A since if the had the advantage of student A, they likely would have exceeded that student and this is a foretelling of what can be expected in college. </p>

<p>The above scenario has nothing to do with race though. A person's race is something they have absolutely no control over and it shouldn't be used against or for them when it comes to opportunities. The sooner we get away from assumptions and generalizations based on what one's race is, especially institutionalized ones, the sooner we can eliminate racial bias altogether.</p>

<p>are you allowed to not specify your race? i'm chinese and spanish, but more chinese...making me eurasian regardless. so i was thinking about either indicating "other" or finding a way to avoid saying "asian"...is that at all possible? can i leave it blank on my app.? for sats and such, i put asian b/c i guess it was just second nature</p>

<p>I think most apps have an option for "decline to state" or something to that effect. You're not generally required to state your race.</p>