<p>Specifically, should I risk sending in my first SAT scores to Williams? I only got 180 on the psat at the start of the school year and I really don't know how I did on the SAT. I desperately want to go to Williams, I think I would do just about anything to get in. </p>
<p>I guess I just want to know what I can do outside of the resume to help my chances at Williams</p>
<p>Williams College does not consider the level of the applicant’s interest in making admissions decisions.</p>
<p>I’m not sure I understand your question regarding your SAT scores. The time to submit scores is when you submit your application – either in November for ED or December for regular. </p>
<p>Also, Williams accepts a substantial percentage (46%) of its class through ED. I would only recommend ED if you’re confident that your financial needs will be met, but it’s an obvious way to tell them that its your first choice.</p>
<p>Even if Williams doesn’t officially consider “demonstrated interest” a visit wouldn’t hurt. You’ll have the opportunity to register when you attend an information session or take a tour. </p>
<p>You’ll have the opportunity in your application essays to demonstrate why you’d be a good fit for Williams. You should do this indirectly by reflecting on an event or situation in your life that shows that you’re Williams material. So start thinking about those essays now.</p>
<p>Any school that accepts a substantial % of its class through ED substantially considers interest in the process. ED is the ultimate demonstration of interest. There are schools that have just about the same acceptance rate, for ED and RD, and I would say those do NOT consider demonstrated interest as one of their factors. Though I do believe that Williams doesn’t worry about that as much as many schools that have to so consider it in their non ED group because of so many phantom applications. Williams is high enough on the yield scale that it is not such a concern to them. Still, a demonstrated LACK of interest would not be encouraged.</p>
<p>I think the OP is talking about the 4 free score reports that can be sent whenever a test is taken. Our kids never used them, but I pretty sure they expired before scores were reported. The risk is if the OP did not do as well as he hoped, then Williams gets those scores.</p>
<p>OP - It is only $11 to send scores to one school, so if you are unsure about your score, then do not send to Williams using the free report; just wait, You may take the test again and send those instead. </p>
<p>@momrath College Board allows you to send your scores to 4 colleges for free. It’s mostly just a way to show interest so not many people do it. </p>
<p>Oh, and I did visit, just a few weeks ago, and I absolutely fell in live with it. Thanks for your input! </p>
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<p>I understand what you’re saying, but according to the Williams CDS, the school does not consider the level of the applicant’s interest in making admissions decisions. OP wasn’t asking about whether or not there was a better chance of acceptance applying ED vice RD, the question was whether or not an early submission of SAT scores would help by demonstrating interest. If you accept Williams at their word based on the CDS (and I have no reason not to), then the answer is very clearly “no.”</p>
<p>“Any school that accepts a substantial % of its class through ED substantially considers interest in the process. ED is the ultimate demonstration of interest.”</p>
<p>Not to pile on, but a substantial part of the substantial percentage of the class that is admitted ED is made up of legacies and recruited athletes. My sense is that when you disaggregate the numbers, unhooked candidates have no (no meaningful?) statistical advantage by applying ED (relative to RD), hence even that perceived benefit of interested demonstrated through applying ED itself evaporates under examination. I do agree with momrath that the real advantage of a visit is that it can help you shape your application in a powerful way…</p>
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<p>Do we know that or is that just a generally accepted belief?</p>
<p>Not much anecdotal evidence on CC this year, but the handful of kids who posted on the ED acceptance thread don’t include an overwhelming number of athletes or legacies. If anything, the trend seems to be toward music and URMs. So, yes, there’s an emphasis on hooked candidates but the hook criteria are broader than athletes and legacies.</p>
<p>This is what the admissions director said:
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<p>If “approximately 44 percent of all students participate in intercollegiate sports (36 percent at the varsity level)” then it stands to reason that ED admits would align with this percentage; however, I believe that Williams also uses ED admits to recruit strength in the arts and to balance their diversity demographics. Percentages are hard to calculate because so many Williams kids fall into more than one category, e.g., arts+sports.</p>
<p>When my D met with the Director of Admissions (through a legacy interview), he indicated that ED is not necessarily the advantage that the percentages indicate. He mentioned that quite of large number of the ED pool are recruited athletes (reflective of the overall interest in athletics among the student body generally). He also said that the quality of the ED admits (including the athletes) is really, really high so these people would likely have been admitted RD anyway. He also said that my D (whose tests scores were marginal for Williams - 32 ACT and not mid 700s for SAT IIs and this is what he focused on most along with submitting a really strong arts supplement which could make a difference) would not have a significant advantage applying ED. Basically, applying ED / demonstrating interest is not going to make up for any other weakness in the application and being a legacy isn’t all that much of a tip. D ended up applying RD but was not admitted. I get the impression that most of the ED admits are just really stand outs in some way or another – they all make the academic grade and also have something else to offer – diversity, arts, sports, etc.</p>
<p>@momofzag - I know this is the Williams forum, but a Princeton admin officer told us the exact same thing. In fact, he said, “Do not waste your SCEA on us unless you are absolutely unique, with the grades and tests scores to match.” Sounds like the Williams’ director does the same analysis.</p>
<p><@momrath College Board allows you to send your scores to 4 colleges for free. It’s mostly just a way to show interest so not many people do it.></p>
<p>Disagree. People do send the four free scores. But the most common thing to do is to send it to your state university and your safeties or mid-level apps. If you do well enough on the first SAT sitting you may not need to send those four again.</p>
<p>Most universities now “superscore”–that is take the best scores from multiple SAT sittings. So theoretically you couldn’t hurt yourself too badly, presuming, of course, that Williams uses the Superscore method.</p>
<p>@Picapole - Yes, but first impression is everything. Last thing I would want to send to Williams is initial lower than expected scores. That could get you on the “he does not look strong list” right there.</p>
<p>The state university thing I get. We did not do it, but I get that.</p>
<p>I attended an info session at Williams and the admissions rep said of course ED is an advantage. It’s not going to help a student who is below standard though. </p>
<p>^^ No one said it is blankedly not an advantage. Yes, ED is an advantage, but to whom specifically is what the conversation is about. It is not an advantage for everyone who applies ED, including many with high stats.</p>
<p>Understand that ED advantage goes to legacies, athlete, students with outstanding talents in the arts, and those from desireable demographics; however at least one of these factors is pretty much required for regular admissions too. I just have to go back to that 40+% (this year @43%). I believe that if you have what Williams wants – grades and scores + one or more of the above attributes – ED will give you a big advantage.</p>
<p>If you don’t, well, then you’re probably not going to get in RD either.</p>
<p>^^ Yes, but that does not mean the ED applicant pool selection criteria is not weighted heavily towards the specific criteria you list, with demonstrated interest taking a backseat. And I believe that is what the Director of Admissions was telling @momofzag.</p>
<p>Your data masks the real number that needs to be considered. The relevant number in question is not 43%. It is the percentage after all the legacies, athletes, outstanding talents and hooks galore people are taken. </p>
<p>For example, of those 554 ED applicants, if 135 (a very safe number to use given size of sports teams and legacies alone) are admitted via legacy, athletics, and some serious special hook, that leaves the real number for the applicant for which very high demonstrated interest is their biggest “thing” at 102/419, which is 24%. Sure it is higher than the RD rate, but all it takes is a strong recruiting class, a few more legacies and special hooks to drop it very close to the RD rate real fast.</p>
<p>So, I do get it that the ED pool, unless you have some real special thing going, is not necessarily the advantage the overall 43% indicates. And the fact that the Director of Admissions told as much to a legacy applicant really tells me the pool is so heavy with legacies, athletes and those extra special students that having high demonstrated interest probably does not stand out at all.</p>
<p>My comment was in response to the statement that the only students to have an advantage in the ED pool are athletes and legacies. </p>
<p>I agree that Williams ED admits usually offer one or more of the following categories: sports, arts, demographics, legacy. It also seems to me that those same four attributes show up again and again in the RD pool, but with more competition. f you can’t offer something of interest to Williams – in addition to excellent grades and scores – you’re probably not going to get in RD either.</p>
<p>In this year’s ED round Williams admitted 237 students out of 554 applicants. Unless Williams chooses to tell us, we can’t know how many were legacies and how many were athletes. We can’t know how many of these applicants were legacies and/or athletes, or, for that matter, how many were even in the Williams ballpark.</p>
<p>The significance of a “hook” has become blurred because all Williams students seem to have an outstanding characteristic – again either sports, arts or demographics (and legacy to a certain extent). Just read the profiles of admitted students on this board. The figures are further blurred by the tendency of Williams students to demonstrate talent in more than one area and the emphasis on overall “fit” in admissions. </p>
<p>How to characterize the artistic talent of admits – special, extra special, extraordinarily special, unique – is beyond our speculation, but I have to take Dick Nesbitt at his word when he says “highly rated artists, athletes, musicians, and actors” were well represented in the ED pool. I also believe that the sports/athletic focus at Williams extends beyond the varsity athlete category into a general interest in sporty, outdoorsy activities. This is where “fit” becomes important.</p>
<p>So my point remains the same. If you’re sure Williams is the one for you, if you have what it takes to get into Williams – AND you have the luxury of not needing to compare and negotiate financial offers – then apply ED. Don’t be discouraged by the mistaken belief that only athletes and legacies have a shot. That the percentage of acceptance for someone with your profile may be less than 43% but more than 18% is, to me, not an argument against applying ED. </p>
<p>My persistence on making this point is my son’s successful ED acceptance. He was neither a legacy nor an athlete, but offered serious artistic talent and an usual life experience. Would he have been admitted during the ED round? Who knows? I wouldn’t have wanted him to take the chance.</p>
<p>Totally agree with Momrath. If you are qualified and Williams is clear first choice and fin aid is not an issue (and you don’t need/want merit), then go ahead and apply ED. It certainly won’t hurt and might help. </p>
<p>My daughter was not a legacy or athlete, and while I think she’s great, I don’t think she possessed anything the admissions office would have considered to be special talents. She’s white, middle class, not from a feeder school, and required quite a bit of aid. She did have higher than average scores, strong grades and a busy schedule of activities. ED worked for her, perhaps she might have been lost in the shuffle in the regular round. </p>