In our case, D’s gc will have tons of kids to write letters for, and it’s unlikely she will really know any of them
Schools often use the GC’s evaluation of rigor as a key metric. The recommendation could also be important, but Admission Officers understand that in a large school guidance counselors may not really know most of the students.
there is no blanket answer. At some colleges they are less important than the teacher recs, at others they count equally.
And for colleges looking for a reason to ding a kid, saying with so many kids the GC didn’t know them well is tantamount to saying the kid didn’t make the effort to get to know the GC. This was in US News a few years ago
Most colleges are probably not like this.
My guidance counsellor changed every year that I was in high school, so by my senior year I was introducing myself for the first time while she wrote my recommendation letter. I wouldn’t say it necessarily hurt my application as she wrote a standard rec letter, but I didn’t get into as many private schools as I’d expected. If a college were to turn away a student just for their recommendation, though, I don’t think that’s an institution you’d want your child to be attending.
Our school has 5 gc’s for 2800 students. A college who faults my kid for not being a kid with many issues that she needs to see them about is shortsighted
We submtited a “brag sheet” to our counselor. Basically it was up to us as parents and the student to give the counselor the examples and specifics that would help her write a great letter of rec. If we did a sub par job of giving her stories and examples, then she didn’t have much to write about except for rigor. We spent the summer remembering examples and collecting details so we could fill out the “brag” packet. This school had 1400 seniors so having a close relationship with the counselor wasn’t the norm.
Colleges understand that many schools have GCs who are overloaded and can’t supply much more than a generic letter. I wouldn’t worry about it. I would be sure that your D has strong teacher recommendations lined up.
Start working on your ‘brag sheet’ - that recaps significant elements about you (especially obstacles overcome) and schooling (schedule overlaps, exceptional things you did, awards, reasons for choosing some classes…)
It should be listed, NOT written put as a long paragraph.
Our HS requires brag sheets be given to teachers and GC before a rec letter is written!
In addition to brag sheets, many gc will reach out to teachers, and admin who know the student to gain more insight.
For schools who really practice holistic admissions, the reccos are very important as it is their means to really get to know the student
If the rest if your app is spot on, adcoms know some GCs just aren’t on the ball. That’s different than when nothing much sings for you for that college and the counselor letter is bland or generic.
Will this student have good LoRs, from the right teachers? You have to control what you can. Yes, get to know letter writers, give them something to work with.
Do what you can to make sure that even if your GC doesn’t know you, he/she can write about you. While I know that “brag sheet” is a term, let them know who the person is that you’d like them to describe, not simply what you’ve accomplished. (Ditto for teacher recs). Everyone submits stats – this, and your essay, is how you make your application reflect a person, not simply data. I think, though, that in many cases, what schools are looking for from a GC is perspective on the classes you’ve taken in terms of what the school offered, i.e., rigor.
Thanks to all of you for your helpful feedback:)
@mikemac Wow that really sucks. Most students only go to counselors for scheduling or to talk about college related things. I wouldn’t want to waste my counselor’s time “getting to know me” just to write a better rec when there are others that actually need a counselor’s help for more serious problems. I thought it was bad at my school with 200 students per counselor, but I guess that’s not that out of he ordinary. I can’t imagine the bigger schools with worse ratios.
2017, it depends on what college choices you want in your senior spring. You want a letter that repeats your brag sheet (a list that matches your activities on the application) or one that sheds additional (qualitative) light on you?
You don’t have to buddy up, carry their groceries, move mountains. But if a kid wants a competitive holistic, a more holistic GC letter can help. Not wanting to self advocate in small, appropriate ways doesn’t help.
A negative rec from a GC looks really bad
As I mentioned above my kids GC has over 600 kids. When she was a freshman she attended a Saturday planning session with approximately 20 students, the GC, and the IB program director. Each student prepared their 4 year course plan to meet IB, state and UC admission requiremental. She has not deviated from the plan in 3 years. I cannot advocate her pestering him just so some letter that is honestly probably written by the counseling administration is a little less impersonal.
@lookingforward I’m not personally worried about my GC rec as I’m an officer in a club that my GC runs. For most people, other than scheduling when else would they talk to their counselor? At my school the GCs spend most of their time helping people that are close to failing or have mental problems or problems at home. The “smart kids” don’t even talk much about scheduling since they plan their schedules out beforehand anyways. I talk to my GC about college plans from time to time and as an officer in a club but that’s it. What other genuine reasons do people have to talk with their GCs that’s not for looking better for recs? I’d rather have my GC be able to help the kids that really need it for mental or social reasons instead of wasting her time.
@GMTplus7 I agree if a GC writes negative things that’s really bad. But that’s different from having an “average letter” because they have several hundred other students with bigger problems. I think teacher recs should matter much more.
This is one of the reasons people shell out thousands of dollars for private schools. The GC letter becomes an additional LORs and can carry an extraordinary amount of weight. For example, at my ritzy private school I’m not even talking about the GC. The guidance counselor was for kids who were having issues (for all intents and purposes a school psychologist), the college counselor is the one writing the secondary school report and such.