<p>jym–</p>
<p>LOL!</p>
<p>Wait, you’re LOL’ing without me? I too would love to hear what comes of this discussion (on the listserv, I mean.) And I also wonder whether the name-- NLD, or graphomotor or perceptual motor problem-- is important. But is there some way I could help her, by refining the diagnosis? </p>
<p>Mitdu-- when the neuropsych brought my D back from her office she said to us “So, which one of you can’t parallel park?” I was floored! My husband can no more parallel park than he could walk on the ceiling! I am dreading driver’s ed, let me tell you! </p>
<p>My D has hypersensitive hearing – to the point that I think the CIA could use her. Taste too. And yes, so many little things I really can’t tease out-- school can be so frustrating for her, she wants more than anything to do well, works so hard, and then will be tripped up by some little thing that I can often trace back to the NLD…or whatever. Accommodations only help so much. But she couldn’t play soccer to save her life!! (Way back in grammar school she made many goals for the opposing teams.) </p>
<p>It’s wonderful to know someone else has gone through this and come out pretty well, I must say!</p>
<p>Jym626,</p>
<p>I was wondering whether neuropsychologists know of an association between NLD (or at least severe verbal > performance discrepancy and perinatal/prenatal brain damage as I have spastic diplegic cerebral palsy and my brain MRI shows bilateral posterior periventricular white matter damage.</p>
<p>Gwen–</p>
<p>ROFL about your dh and parallel parking!!! Yes, I am convinced that most learning styles are innate and genetic. Whatever the DSM wants to call those learning styles.</p>
<p>If you couldn’t tell, verbal skills are my strength. I was reading at a 5th grade level when I entered kindergarten. Not because I’m smart, but because reading came very easily to me. Nonverbal skills are my weaker area–including parallel parking!</p>
<p>After my dd was diagnosed with NLD (technically Cognitive Disorder NOS) six or seven years ago, I read everything I could about NLD. I realized pretty quickly who passed on that DNA to dd! And when I talked with my wonderful mother about NLD, my mom said that NLD describes her too. She also is a classic bookworm and not athletic. But she;s also extremely intuitive, empathetic and has incredible people skills. </p>
<p>My husband was diagnosed with dyslexia as a child. Not stereotypic phonemic awareness dyslexia. He can read out loud with the best of them and was a TV anchor for awhile. More of the “right-brained thinker in a left-brained world” dyslexia. Our ds got a heapin’ helpin’ of my husband’s learning style.</p>
<p>dd—well, she is multi-sensory learner, thinks exclusively in pictures, has photographic memory, is very athletic, (all like dh) but also has many of the NLD traits. She’s an interesting blend of both her dad and me, with her own style.</p>
<p>Her social skills are better than mine. Just the opposite of my dd, I have strong fine motor ability but lousy gross motor. My dad made me play softball but I couldn’t hit the stupid ball if the bat had been four feet wide!! I hated math and physics but was able to get straight As in high school by working hard. She barely passed math and science despite working even harder than I did. I am much more analytical than she is. She is quite literal. I’m fine with clocks and charts and graphs. But we didn’t have digital clocks as I was growing up so I HAD to tell time on an analog clock!</p>
<p>I am not Rourke-Thompson Classic NLD, either. But reading about NLD was like a lightbulb going off. Finally, an explanation for why I learn the way I do. Why some of my skill sets are strong, and why I have so much trouble developing other skill sets no matter how hard I try (physics, softball, parallel parking…) It finally made sense. And it gave me an incredible sense of peace.</p>
<p>mitdu-
My description of graphomotor/motor output issues was in response to Gwen’s description of some of her child’s testing. This is exactly why a comprehensive evaluation is important to rule in/rule out other variables contributing to an individual’s presentation. I am happy to share general information, but it would not be appropriate, and would be beyond the scope of what can be addressed on a public forum, to speak to individual cases, especially with limited information.</p>
<p>The discussion going on on my professional listserv at the moment is about NLD or right hemisphere LD subtypes within the NLD “umbrella”, those individuals with working memory, fluid reasoning and mild executive problems, vs those with more visual-spatial issues. Then they are discussing those who do/do not have math difficulties, vs those who have math difficulties and/or visuospatial problems who are not NLD. I expect they’ll soon get into the overlapping NLD/Aspergers symptoms as well. Stay tuned.</p>
<p>Very interesting. Thanks jym. Early in the eval process, there was discussion of whether my dd has Aspergers. Ruled out pretty quickly, but I found discussion very interesting. It makes sense that any discussion of NLD would touch on other Spectrum issues and ADHD/exec function.</p>
<p>I realize this is a public forum and not a diagnostic session. But I find these message boards are a great place for parents to share anecdotes and experiences. That helps parents to realize we aren’t going crazy and our kids aren’t the ONLY ones on the planet with their unique learning styles. I don’t know if reading our parental comments gives additional insight to professionals like yourself, or if you shake your head in disbelief at what we say!</p>
<p>Mitdu that’s so interesting that the NLD diagnosis gave you some peace too…it really helped me be more patient with my husband-- I so often thought he just wasn’t bothering, when in fact he wasn’t capable of one thing or another. His verbal skills are amazing…but he was born with a cleft palate and had a terrible time learning to speak, so had frustration from every side. He is happiest when he’s reading. What is your D studying in college? It’s very nice to know of someone who has made her way through this labyrinth successfully.</p>
<p>To both Gwen Fairfax and Mitdu:</p>
<p>Since I have an NLD-like learning disability (I am a 25 year old female college graduate at this point) with huge gaps between strengths and deficits, I was wondering what are your daughters’ strengths and weaknesses cognitively as well as they translate to academic subjects. And just like Gwen, I am wondering what’s your daughter’s major, Mitdu?</p>
<p>I have good abstract reasoning, vocabulary, sequential reasoning, decent math and very poor simultaneous reasoning, memory and learning of new information and generally it takes me longer to understand new material and tasks. I also have poor reading comprehension and find it hard to maintain interest while reading which means that reading has always been a struggle. Subject-wise my cognitive imbalance meant that I enjoyed science (although I hated and never understood lab) esp. biology, and chemistry was OK too due to its linear and logical nature where all relationships and connections are drawn out for you and you don’t have to make them yourself. I was decent in math also. However, literature was difficult due to the reading loads and long papers although my papers were always very organized because I relied on extensive outlines as a compensatory mechanism for my inherent disorganization. History was also a struggle because it is so broad and requires independent synthesis and generalization. Otherwise, history seems like just a pile of endless boring facts which are irrelevant to immediate life.</p>
<p>Anticipating this question, let me say that I majored in Cognitive and Linguistic Sciences (Linguistics concentration), but I could not have made a worse major choice. It was a totally wrong major for me due to the extremely abstract nature of the subject, and the quantity and nature of the reading load. I had to read journal articles all the time and take classes like philosophy. This is the exact opposite of my strengths in more structured and concrete subjects. Why did I chose this major? By the process of elimination as I thought that it is similar to science (after all it has a word cognitive in it) but not really science. And if you are wondering why I did not major in science, the reason is that it was extremely competitive in my college and dominated by premeds so I could not handle it in this environment and moreover, I could not stand the weekly 4 hour lab sessions.</p>
<p>Well, enough rambling.</p>
<p>Hi, itsme… You sound almost opposite to my daughter, whose visual/fine motor problems wreck most of science and any kind of spatial math (geometry). For her it’s always the human element-- in English, history, Psych, etc-- that makes things interesting enough to work on and understand. And its the relationship to the teacher that matters above all. Sometimes a subject that should make no sense works fine, because she can find some link to it through her teacher. It’s odd, interesting, and in some ways very cool…but standardized tests, well, no.</p>
<p>She’s obsessed with theater, has been since she was tiny-- that’s the human element all the way. So, she will no doubt major in theater in college and she hopes to go to a conservatory. When she thinks of a ‘day job’ (since her klutziness puts waitressing WAY off limits), she wonders about occupational therapy. Her childhood occupational therapist inspired and helped her so much. </p>
<p>Neurology is fascinating, and moving at lightning speed to understand brains (I think ALL brains are full of differences)…but understanding doesn’t “cure” of course. What do you think of doing now you find yourself with a BA in the ‘wrong’ thing? (So many people feel just that–a friend said, on the day he could finally put ‘MD’ after his name, that he knew all along Computer science was his thing…etc., etc.,!) What is your great fascination? That’s what I’d follow, any way I could, if I were you.</p>
<p>Haven’t had time to read the whole discussion going on on the professional listserv, but I did get one of the discussants to send me a preprint of a chapter from a book on learning disabilities, where they discuss their hypotheses of NLD subtypes. The chapter is 34 pgs long (I printed it out-- sorry for killing trees!) and she is going to send me another article as well. I have a lot of reading ahead of me!</p>
<p>The thing is that my learning disability is so severe (Verbal IQ 135, Performance IQ 73 for an overall average full-scale IQ around 105) that it’s hard to find an area in which I would excel. Two years out of college and I still don’t have a job. I do atrociously on job interviews because the administrative jobs to which I apply are above my head and it shows on interviews. I have no idea of a vocation which I would enjoy and thrive in. In my case, the reason for my learning disability is perinatal brain damage; I have spastic diplegic cerebral palsy which is connected to my premature birth. I am just hoping that although it would take me much longer than average to find myself, that I would discover a niche in life.</p>
<p>Jym, I can’t wait to hear! Thank you! And Itsme…your IQ scores are just about identical to my daughters. But the CP must add another very difficult dimension and be very frustrating. Clearly, though, you’ve got a lot going for you-- very high verbal abilities and a strong will! I wouldn’t trade those for anything. These are terrible times for anyone looking for a job, and you have additional burdens…but something tells me you are going to find plenty of interesting and satisfying work-- you just sound so smart and self-directed.</p>
<p>it’sme–</p>
<p>First, congrats for getting through college. Even if your major was not a good fit, you made it work. That’s huge! Finding the “right” job is darned hard for most of us. It’s especially hard in a lousy economy and if our weaknesses keep getting in the way. </p>
<p>My dyslexic dh majored in Mass Communication but it didn’t take him long in a TV newsroom to realize writing and reading are not really his area of strength. He’s a very visual, very intuitive person. He’s now in banking–and relating to customers is his real strength. </p>
<p>My dd plans to major in Athletic Training (sometimes called Sports Medicine.) She’s very “hands-on,” so taping ankles, operating an ultrasound on a sore knee, and working with athletes to prevent and recover from injuries celebrates her strengths. This field allows her to combine her love of sports with her innate ability to help people. She’s thinking about minoring in Psychology.</p>
<p>Like you, it does take her longer to understand new materials and tasks–unless she can touch it, see it, do it. Too much reading, and her mind goes to mush. Especially if the language is metaphoric or flowery. “Just the facts, ma’am” is the kind of reading she likes best!</p>
<p>Reading these, I’m struck as I have been before-- “IQ” is measured in verbal and performance ability. Yet intuition and empathy are some of the most essential abilities. Thank heaven no one’s making up standardized tests for those qualities! But you’d think colleges would want intuitive, empathic students!!!</p>
<p>Hi all, I am so new to this. Have just read a 15 page report on my son.
His results were:
VCI:112 (79%)
PRI:96 (39%)
WMI: 99 (47%)
PSI :80 (9%)
FSIQ: 99 (47%)</p>
<p>Similarities<em>13
Vocab</em>14
Comprehension<em>10
Block Design</em>10
Picture Concepts_10
Matrix Reasoning _8</p>
<p>Digit Span<em>9
Letter Number Sequencing</em>11</p>
<p>Symbol Search <em>7
Coding</em>6</p>
<p>The Psychologist recommends that he may have an Auditory Processing Disorder and also a Short Term Auditory Memory (STAM) issue.
She also suggests he has a Visual Tracking issue.
She recommends that we dont do any further testing now, however just treat him as he has STAM and work with the school to help him.</p>
<p>I feel that I want to go to an audiologist to determine if he has any auditory issues and a behavourial optometrist to check the visual tracking.</p>
<p>I am after anyones opinions on my sons results as well as what you believe we should do.
Thanks heaps
Sally</p>
<p>I am not at all an expert, just a 25 year old girl who has been tested and has an LD herself, so take this with a grain of salt.</p>
<p>Did he have any other neuropsych. tests besides the WISC? I don’t think you can diagnose APD, STAM or Visual Tracking issue just from an IQ test. You need other tests to determine that.</p>
<p>From the scores, it seems like he might have a weakness with fluid reasoning as Matrix Reasoning is relatively low. Also, executive functioning might be a problem because of Symbol Search score, and low Coding may indeed indicate poor short-term memory as in order to fill as many blanks with symbols as possible, one can’t refer to the key all the time and has to learn/remember the symbol-digit correspondence.</p>
<p>This is really all the insight that I can provide. You might want to post these scores in the greatschools.net LD forum or millermom.proboards.com LD forum as there are parents on these forums who are very knowledgeable with scores and you might find someone there with a similar profile to your son’s.</p>