<p>I am doing some research on colleges for my rising senior S. Much as I would like to take him on college visits to everywhere that sounds intriguing, we live in Utah, but the cost and difficulty of many more trips is a constraint. So for those of you that know Dartmouth well, does this sound like someone who would flourish at Dartmouth?</p>
<p>4.0 UW GPA; 10 APs, all 4 &5 so far
PSAT 222 (UT 2009 threshold was 206), so probable NFM
2320 SAT
SAT IIs are 750 Math II 740 Bio, and USHist TBA
33 ACT</p>
<p>Classical piano, 8 years, including state-level competitions
Quite interested in outdoors (backpacking, technical rockclimbing, etc.)
Debate team captain, state champion in his event, MUN, Mock Trial, active in theatre</p>
<p>Participating in TASP this summer.</p>
<p>Probable UG interest is philosophy/public policy. I just can't see him going to Harvard, Columbia, Princeton. Says he doesn't want to go to someplace as big a Cornell. But Dartmouth sounds like a better fit because I think outdoorsy character and size will really resonate with his personality. Generally we are targeting mid/high end LACs (Macalester, Oberlin, Grinnell, Pomona, etc.) but thought Dartmouth might be an intriguing reach.</p>
<p>I really would appreciate your thoughts because our HS has no tradition of pursuing Ivy admits. The GCs think of the state universities, and BYU, and that is about it.</p>
<p>Macalester, Oberlin, Grinnell and Pomona are very different in personality than Dartmouth. Dartmouth is very preppy and much more right leaning. Not sure, but based on the very liberal schools you mentioned, it sticks out like a sore thumb. I am not saying that Dartmouth does not have liberal leaning people there, but it’s a very different environment from Mac/OBer/Grinn and Pomona. </p>
<p>Dartmouth is a great school for the outdoorsy type and it’s in a lovely, remote area in NH, but very different from the LAC’s you list. Have you been to visit any of these?</p>
<p>I really would not describe D as preppy and right-leaning on an absolute scale–maybe in comparison to the listed schools, but not in comparison to schools in general.</p>
<p>I think that it would be an excellent school for someone with those academic interests and ECs. He would love the Outing Club. In fact, it sounds like virtually a perfect fit.</p>
<p>I think that you should also consider Middlebury and Williams. Both of them would appear to be better fits in terms of outdoor opportunities than the other schools on your list, and at least equally good academic fits. His stats and academics are certainly in line for both of them and for D, although given the low acceptance rates and size of the schools one cannot predict the results. He might also want to consider Bowdoin and Colby. I think Colby would probably be more or less a safety/match for him and Bowdoin a match. BTW, I think that being from Utah would be a plus at all the northeastern schools.</p>
<p>His SAT is better than his ACT, so I would not send the ACT at all.</p>
<p>His academic record puts him in range for Dartmouth, and his outdoorsy tendencies mean he’d have to love a school that starts the freshman experience with a wilderness trip. </p>
<p>If he’s a rock climber, why not look at places like Middlebury and Williams, rather than the mostly flatland schools on your list? Williams is also outdoorsy, and you can also check out its music program. </p>
<p>Dartmouth may be right-leaning and preppy compared to Oberlin, but compared to Princeton, it’s much more grunge than prep. And it’s definitely smaller and more LAC-like than any of the other Ivies.</p>
<p>I agree D is an intriguing reach (and not an outrageous reach based on test scores) on many levels, and not just because its outdoorsy. It is, as noted, a smaller and very LAC -ish university. Its philosphy department is well regarded and it offers some great experience in public policy - one of which, I believe, remains unique: [Policy</a> Research Shop](<a href=“http://rockefeller.dartmouth.edu/shop/]Policy”>http://rockefeller.dartmouth.edu/shop/)</p>
<p>I very much appreciate everyone’s comments. We have tried to get him exposed to a variety of colleges (Whitman, Reed, Duke, Davidson, Oberlin, Kenyon, Rice, and probably some others that I have forgotten for now.) With S1 we visited Macalester, Grinnell, St. Olaf, Colorado College, and Careton. Getting to the schools in the NE is just SO far to go. I suppose that if he gets admitted to some in the NE we would do some visits. It is just so hard to get a feel of the character of the schools from afar.</p>
<p>My son likes to think of himself as quite a liberal (and compared to the local cultural context, he is.) But I think a Swarthmore would be a huge adjustment.</p>
<p>It is a foregone conclusion that we will send him to a school that has fewer outdoor activities than what he has grown up around. He can go 10 miles out of town and be in federal wilderness area for an overnight backpack jaunt. There is not a national caliber LAC within 800 miles. So sending the kid a long way away (his older brother is in Michigan for school) is a foregone conclusion.</p>
<p>Thanks for all the help, everyone. I got turned onto CC when I was doing research on TASP after he got the invitation to apply. I have learned SO much on here over the past few months that I think I have a much better chance of helping him implement a strategy that will allow him to compete meaningfully with students from much more highly resources backgrounds.</p>
<p>While I understand that Dartmouth has quite the reputation for being preppy and slightly right-leaning, I can assure you, UT84321, that one does not have to fit either stereotype to truly fall in love with the school. I feel like the only sure-fire bet to evaluate your son’s fit is to visit, but obtaining valid information about Dartmouth online can also be very valuable if taken from the right sources. </p>
<p>Seeing his academic and extracurricular qualifications, I am convinced that your son has a good chance of being admitted, and while Dartmouth may be far from home, there are few schools in the world that could offer the experience that Dartmouth College can. </p>
<p>When I was visiting and applying to college, I too realized that the liberal arts college environment suited my personal tastes the best. I chose Dartmouth because it offered the incredible close-knit community that I had always loved in all the LAC’s I visited, and possessed incredible resources in its job placement and alumni network. And believe me, Dartmouth feels very much like any Liberal Arts College, and I’ve already had the chance to meet and befriend a huge percentage of the incoming class, even half a year before orientation.</p>
<p>And to the Dartmouth stereotype. I’m not right-leaning politically. I’m not exactly preppy. I’m not from a New England boarding school. And despite all this, I’ve definitely fallen in love with this school. And even my future classmates who do fit some of these stereotypes are incredible, open-minded people who would not allow such differences to interfere with any friendship.</p>
<p>So, I hope you consider Dartmouth, and I’d be happy to help you in the future in any way I can!</p>
<p>I definitely concur with Hollow’s post - some Dartmouth students lean right, but more left, some are preppy, some are crunchy, most though not so simply reduced to that kind of stereotype.</p>
<p>Its good you realize you son will have to take matters more into his own hands on this. I have noted GC’s from across my state also promote only schools within that state- especially public universities- to the extent that I wonder if they are instructed to do so. CC is a rich resource. However, don’t let it give you misimpression that your son will be hugely disadvantaged at the schools he is considering because his background is not highly resourced. Many students at any the schools he is considering come from public systems where no one ever heard of TASP (believe me!). At these schools, the fact that your son hails from a Utah public school (public is my assumption based on your ‘more highly resourced’ comment so I apologize if I am wrong) with his credentials may be a hook. </p>
<p>Based on the way you have described your son, I feel that you have done a really great job in identifying Dartmouth as a potential school. (If you haven’t already, explore the Dartmouth Outing Club page)</p>
<p>Sounds like a good Dartmouth personality to me. </p>
<p>The LACs on your list are great schools, too, but I agree there might be better choices for an outdoorsy kid than the Midwestern flatlands. Whitman and Colorado College as target/likely schools; Bowdoin, Williams or Middlebury as additional reaches.</p>
<p>Again, thanks for the thoughtful responses. They do convince me that having Dartmouth on the radar is not nuts.</p>
<p>My concern for the outdoorsy character is just to ease the transition. Coming from a rural (ish) valley in UT, the transition into an urban school like U Chicago, G’town or Columbia would be a big one. So I think he would feel less out-of-water at a place where other people had gotten their North Face jackets dirty a few times. But first and ofremost is the quality of the education and the interesting people that would be part of the campus community.</p>
<p>And I appreciate the specific schools that some of you are suggesting as other possible options; while I know their general national reputations, they deserve a closer look (even though I would probably pronounce Bowdoin wrong the first time.)</p>
<p>This is easier than finding a school for your son. Say it just like the word ‘maiden,’ except replace the first syllable (mai) with bow (as in bow and arrow). You too can sound like a real Maineiac.</p>
<p>Your S sounds like he would fit quite well at Dartmouth. I cannot comment too much since I dont know as much about Dartmouth as Yale or Penn, but it sounds like a good fit. </p>
<p>I agree the only way to know for sure is to visit, thats how I knew what worked for me. Did he consider Yale at all? Its not as large as Cornell or Harvard, but it is a college with a great outdoor presence. For one, the campus grounds are beautiful, but he can also do FOOT (Yale’s pre-frosh summer hiking) throughout mountains or plains…</p>
<p>Yale is on my reach list for him, but I do not know if it will be on his. I have kind of a negative bias against Yale because I got admitted for my graduate work there. I visited in the dead of winter and found the urban environment to be quite intimidating. So I went elsewhere. But I understand that the neighborhoods adjacent to the school have improved over the 25 years since then.</p>
<p>Yale is of course a great university, and the campus itself is striking, but it definitely does not offer access to the kind of physical environment that your S enjoys.</p>
<p>I am half tempted to tell him that if he got into Yale, he should just put his backpack on the shelf for a while. He could get his backcountry fix in the summer. And he has eclectic interests including classical music/performing arts, so he will have plenty to experience wherever he goes.</p>
<p>There actually are some hiking and rock-climbing possibilities in or near New Haven. It’s also a straight shot up I-91 to the Berkshires in western Mass and on to Vermont. Not as convenient as from Dartmouth, but a lot better than Princeton, which actually has a ski team which puts up with a long commute to decent skiing.</p>
<p>If you haven’t seen the Dartmouth By Air video, check it out [YouTube</a> - Dartmouth By Air](<a href=“http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7GIXESEjfqo]YouTube”>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7GIXESEjfqo) It gives you a sense of the area around campus. There really are many, many outdoor opportunities for students if they’re interested. And there is real wilderness in the Second College Grant, a pretty amazing place for those who get up there. </p>
<p>My son was interested in Dartmouth in part because of the outdoor opportunities and the New England environment. He has been very happy with the DOC activities he’s participating in as well. If you haven’t spent time on their website, I’d recommend you take a look: [Dartmouth</a> Outing Club](<a href=“Dartmouth Outdoors”>Dartmouth Outdoors) </p>
<p>The New England environment is very different from what you see in Utah, and your son might find it very interesting for a few years. And, of course, the education is great as well. </p>
<p>Good luck to you and your son in the exciting, stressful process ahead!</p>
<p>Re: performing arts. A friend of my son, a dynamite playwright, transferred from Dartmouth to Yale because Yale is pre-eminent in theater, from what I can tell.
My Dartmouth son was a very urban kid, and as luck would have it, his two Dartmouth girlfriends were from Missoula, Montana and Bemidji, Minnesota, which, by the map, is surrounded by Indian reservations. Both were used to pick-up trucks and firing guns, which he was not. As a city kid, he didn’t know how to drive.
I knew the Minnesota girl better, and at least in her case I think Dartmouth was the ideal transition to the Ivy League. I think it worked very well for the other gal as well.
The adjustment was almost harder for my son, but he came to make the place is own.
If your son is a Utah liberal, the other schools on the list are apt to be a shock. The people I know who graduated from some of these schools detested Bill Clinton and would regard southerners, and I’m guessing folks from Utah, as suspect.
I would regard the center at Dartmouth to be be populated by Clinton-like liberals.</p>